Who honed/bored your FRM liners?
03-02-2006, 02:56 PM
#28
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Re: Who honed/bored your FRM liners? (T3T4H22)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by T3T4H22 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Go somewhere that does a lot of Porsches they have FRM sleeves as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Really?
Really?
03-02-2006, 08:35 PM
#34
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i found an article on the bore process for the s2000 motor. it stated that honda uses a "dummy cylinder head" that they bolt to the block when they do the bore at the factory... interesting.
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.
03-06-2006, 05:18 AM
#36
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Integrated Power)
What is the cost of having a shop hone/bore the FRM liners? Did you drop of teh block locally, or ship it off?
VS
What is the cost of having the block sleeved? Done locally, or shipped?
I am assuming that any <u>competent</u> shop can sleeve the block where as only a select few can hone the FRM for a rebuild, correct?
VS
What is the cost of having the block sleeved? Done locally, or shipped?
I am assuming that any <u>competent</u> shop can sleeve the block where as only a select few can hone the FRM for a rebuild, correct?
03-06-2006, 08:11 AM
#37
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Re: (DJ_SaNdOz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DJ_SaNdOz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What is the cost of having a shop hone/bore the FRM liners? Did you drop of teh block locally, or ship it off?
VS
What is the cost of having the block sleeved? Done locally, or shipped?
I am assuming that any <u>competent</u> shop can sleeve the block where as only a select few can hone the FRM for a rebuild, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
a sleeve job requres much more time and competent machinists to properly sleeve a block, a bore and hone requires alot less work hence its alot less money, i would say a hone should be 1/8th the cost of sleeving, if not for like 1/10th the cost
VS
What is the cost of having the block sleeved? Done locally, or shipped?
I am assuming that any <u>competent</u> shop can sleeve the block where as only a select few can hone the FRM for a rebuild, correct?</TD></TR></TABLE>
a sleeve job requres much more time and competent machinists to properly sleeve a block, a bore and hone requires alot less work hence its alot less money, i would say a hone should be 1/8th the cost of sleeving, if not for like 1/10th the cost
03-06-2006, 08:14 AM
#38
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Re: (prelittlelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a sleeve job requres much more time and competent machinists to properly sleeve a block, a bore and hone requires alot less work hence its alot less money, i would say a hone should be 1/8th the cost of sleeving, if not for like 1/10th the cost</TD></TR></TABLE>
So you're saying a hone job should be about 100-200 bucks or so?
So you're saying a hone job should be about 100-200 bucks or so?
03-06-2006, 10:28 AM
#40
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Re: (Integrated Power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Integrated Power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honeing should b about 50 and boring should be about 80</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, a lot cheaper than I would have assumed
Wow, a lot cheaper than I would have assumed
03-06-2006, 10:56 AM
#41
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anyone ever bring their blocks to bensons with frm? i mean i've only heard good things about him and maybe i should give him a call since he's like a mile away.
03-06-2006, 03:25 PM
#42
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Re: (prelittlelude)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
a sleeve job requres much more time and competent machinists to properly sleeve a block, a bore and hone requires alot less work hence its alot less money, i would say a hone should be 1/8th the cost of sleeving, if not for like 1/10th the cost</TD></TR></TABLE>
would a sleeve job on an H22 not be easier for most decent shops to accomplish VS honing the FRM? I would imagine that sleeving would be an easier task since they are ripping out the liners at that point & don't have to worry about the special 60 RPM, special stone Honda procedure required for FRM.
I am not now, nor will I ever be a machinist so please forgive me if I am way off base here.
a sleeve job requres much more time and competent machinists to properly sleeve a block, a bore and hone requires alot less work hence its alot less money, i would say a hone should be 1/8th the cost of sleeving, if not for like 1/10th the cost</TD></TR></TABLE>
would a sleeve job on an H22 not be easier for most decent shops to accomplish VS honing the FRM? I would imagine that sleeving would be an easier task since they are ripping out the liners at that point & don't have to worry about the special 60 RPM, special stone Honda procedure required for FRM.
I am not now, nor will I ever be a machinist so please forgive me if I am way off base here.
03-06-2006, 03:28 PM
#43
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Thread Starter
Re: (Integrated Power)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Integrated Power »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">honing should b about 50 and boring should be about 80
Modified by Integrated Power at 11:53 AM 3/6/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't let any shop that charges that little touch my engines. You get what you pay for.
Modified by Integrated Power at 11:53 AM 3/6/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
I wouldn't let any shop that charges that little touch my engines. You get what you pay for.
03-06-2006, 11:33 PM
#45
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Re: (Not_Rice4ws)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Not_Rice4ws »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i found an article on the bore process for the s2000 motor. it stated that honda uses a "dummy cylinder head" that they bolt to the block when they do the bore at the factory... interesting.
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's called a torque plate. Not having one of those on with the same type of head studs/bolts that will be used and the mains and girdle in is a recipie for disaster.
No, the liners are pre-formed, and the block is cast around them.
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's called a torque plate. Not having one of those on with the same type of head studs/bolts that will be used and the mains and girdle in is a recipie for disaster.
No, the liners are pre-formed, and the block is cast around them.
03-06-2006, 11:37 PM
#46
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Dave's Machine Shop
37530 Enterprise Ct. #4
Neward, CA 94560
(510) 797-9536 - Roger does the Honda Engines, mention Jesse sent you.
They are normally a V8 shop, but they took my Helms, completed the bore and hone exactly as Honda describes the procedure. They were able to handle the honing stone and low RPM.
The shop assembling the engine checked the clearances and everything was dead on in the middle of the factory spec range.
They have a torque plate, and they require the pistons, rings, and a block that has the mains and girdle installed, as well as your head studs.
The engine isn't in the car yet, but there is absolutely no reason to beleive that there will be any issues at all with this engine burning oil.
37530 Enterprise Ct. #4
Neward, CA 94560
(510) 797-9536 - Roger does the Honda Engines, mention Jesse sent you.
They are normally a V8 shop, but they took my Helms, completed the bore and hone exactly as Honda describes the procedure. They were able to handle the honing stone and low RPM.
The shop assembling the engine checked the clearances and everything was dead on in the middle of the factory spec range.
They have a torque plate, and they require the pistons, rings, and a block that has the mains and girdle installed, as well as your head studs.
The engine isn't in the car yet, but there is absolutely no reason to beleive that there will be any issues at all with this engine burning oil.
03-07-2006, 01:22 PM
#48
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Re: (gaydm.accord)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gaydm.accord »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone ever bring their blocks to bensons with frm? i mean i've only heard good things about him and maybe i should give him a call since he's like a mile away.</TD></TR></TABLE>
i was referred to bensons by portflow, but bensons will be moving soon so he is only sleeving blocks, nothing else, bensons referred me to another place in santa ana but i cant remember the name, he told me $220 over the phone for honing to .25 over, hot tank, and balancing, theyve done h series blocks before and referred by respected places so its where im prolly going to be going, ill still be bringing the helms to make sure they know the slow rpms and the 600 grit stone, im just still deciding on whether to get the oversize type s pistons or just keep my b pistons....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by minimesleeper94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fiber Reinforced Matrix but you were close enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you are close, but helms calls it fiber reinforced metal, matrix makes sense but i doubt helms would get it wrong....
i was referred to bensons by portflow, but bensons will be moving soon so he is only sleeving blocks, nothing else, bensons referred me to another place in santa ana but i cant remember the name, he told me $220 over the phone for honing to .25 over, hot tank, and balancing, theyve done h series blocks before and referred by respected places so its where im prolly going to be going, ill still be bringing the helms to make sure they know the slow rpms and the 600 grit stone, im just still deciding on whether to get the oversize type s pistons or just keep my b pistons....
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by minimesleeper94 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fiber Reinforced Matrix but you were close enough.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you are close, but helms calls it fiber reinforced metal, matrix makes sense but i doubt helms would get it wrong....
04-18-2006, 07:48 AM
#49
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (twistedbydezign)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Not_Rice4ws »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i found an article on the bore process for the s2000 motor. it stated that honda uses a "dummy cylinder head" that they bolt to the block when they do the bore at the factory... interesting.
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the dummy head is called a torque plate
i also found a article on the way honda makes there frm sleeves. they said that the sleeves are put in place prior to the casting process as the molten metal combines with the carbon matrix material to form the liners. anyhow... i still havent found any info yet on any other processes that can be successfully used to hone the sleeves, so that the rings will seat.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the dummy head is called a torque plate