PrecisionH23a

There are quite a few of you guys that are running Type S pistons.

My question is, who did you use to hone or even bore your FRM cylinder walls? We all know it requires a special 600 grit stone and not very many machine shops cary this stone. I work with Darton and they won't even work with these cylinder walls due to the surface not being 100% smooth after the bore/hone process.

So for future reference to other members, please post up who you used to do your FRM walls. Name, address, and phone numbers appreciated

98vtec

good question....in for some answers.

iLude

Newest Honda Tuning has an article about the Mahle Gold pistons. They bored it out slightly because of scaring on the walls, but didn't resleeve (for those who don't know, Mahle Gold pistons work with FRM)...

I'm pretty sure they mention the shop in the article. I'll update this when I get home and check.

Update:

Honda Tuning got theres done at S&S Machine in Mesa, Arizona. A quick google turns up a S S Auto Parts and Machine in Phoenix, not sure if it's the same shop.


I recommend the newest Honda Tuning to anyone thinking about doing this It's a good read.


Modified by iLude at 3:41 PM 3/1/2006

PrecisionH23a

Good deal.

I just thought I would also point out when the FRM lined cylinder walls are bored to the naked eye the walls appear 'true.' But when magnified and viewed, there are area's where more material is removed than others. This is one reason why Darton will not touch these cylinder walls.

I've had several customers ask to run the Mahle's or Type S's on their set-ups and I honestly do not want to be responsible for any types of failures attributed to the honing/boring process. I also will not run a piston unless the cylinder walls are honed to ensure proper setting of rings.

Not_Rice4ws

my buddy ryan, a tech at downtown honda here in spokane honed the frm walls on a 91 b21a prelude motor. he used a regular stone... but he ran it at a lower rpm... he thinks it was 60rpm's. he also told me that honda recently put out a new tsb that gave info on honing the frm walls. he said the prelude he did the hone on has 45k miles on it now since the rebuild and has no signs of oil loss. he used honda oem rings. i have looked for the tsb that pertains to this but havent had any luck yet.


Modified by Not_Rice4ws at 3:25 PM 3/1/2006

boosted93vtecprelude

i'm interested in this too i got a set of jdm type s pistons .50 over and wondering about the bore and hone process on it would be.

Not_Rice4ws

this is a link to honing http://members.shaw.ca/FourthG...).pdf
this is a link to the bulletin.. but i dont have access to the details.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/c...HICLE


Modified by Not_Rice4ws at 3:58 PM 3/1/2006

soundbomber

i thought you can only go .25 over with frm sleeves?

Honda Sport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Not_Rice4ws &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my buddy ryan, a tech at downtown honda here in spokane honed the frm walls on a 91 b21a prelude motor. he used a regular stone... but he ran it at a lower rpm... he thinks it was 60rpm's. he also told me that honda recently put out a new tsb that gave info on honing the frm walls. he said the prelude he did the hone on has 45k miles on it now since the rebuild and has no signs of oil loss. he used honda oem rings. i have looked for the tsb that pertains to this but havent had any luck yet.


Modified by Not_Rice4ws at 3:25 PM 3/1/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

3rd gen prelude's have FRM sleeves?

Not_Rice4ws

only the b21a series motor availible in 1990-1991 preludes
also
During manufacturing, a rigid hone using a GC-600-J or finer stone designed for nonferrous metal was used to finish hone the cylinder bores. Honing pressure should be adjusted to 29-43 psi (200-300 kpa), while the hone head is rotating at 45-50 rpm. The desired crosshatch pattern is 60° for a proper piston ring seal. To prevent stone loading and debris build-up, cleaning the stones every five cycles is recommended.

After the bores have been honed to final size, the block should be cleaned with hot, soapy water and then dried. A cleaning solvent is not advised as it has a tendency to only redistribute honing grit.

Aftermarket honing stone suppliers have found using a silicon carbide, 400 grit stone provides the desired finish and crosshatch required for this cylinder block.

AND..
http://www.aera.org/fm/showthr...st259
here is there number 1-847-541-6550 for aera or someone can pay the 5$ for the bulletin (link located on there main page)

This guy seems to have done some successfully:

I have done several H22 stock rebuilds using safety auto parts pistons following TB 1852 and no problems at all.

Mike Terrill
Norcal Engines
530-893-8224


Modified by Not_Rice4ws at 4:57 PM 3/1/2006


Modified by Not_Rice4ws at 5:05 PM 3/1/2006

96SR-V

50 Howden Rd.
Units D & C
Scarborough, Ontario
Tel: (416) 759-9300

These guys did mine, there in Toronto. They individually measured my pistons also... I'm running .25 over type-s pistons, they've been in for 3 years now and still going strong. This company came recommended from calling Honda Canada customer service. It was BS luck I got some guy that knew all about FRM liners on the other line. He said they work on Honda racing engines.... worked out for me...good luck

0Mike95lude

Bump for more info, I also am in need of a place that can do this.

A Blue Lude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96SR-V &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">50 Howden Rd.
Units D & C
Scarborough, Ontario
Tel: (416) 759-9300

These guys did mine, there in Toronto. They individually measured my pistons also... I'm running .25 over type-s pistons, they've been in for 3 years now and still going strong. This company came recommended from calling Honda Canada customer service. It was BS luck I got some guy that knew all about FRM liners on the other line. He said they work on Honda racing engines.... worked out for me...good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

That place got a name? Could be very useful for me soon...

david1686

what happens if you do not hone with that special 600 grit stone ?

Not_Rice4ws

well, people have said that it is not an absolute certainty that you have to use a 600 grit. like i said before a honda tech used a square hone with less grit then that and the rings seated well, with no blowby yet.
to answer you more directly; if you dont have them honed correctly your rings may not seat properly. among other things.

Honda318dx

https://honda-tech.com/zero...40460

Justice Race Engines - Frederick Maryland Did my last H22 w/ Type -S .25 pistons, running strong

boostinh22

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Justice Race Engines - Frederick Maryland Did my last H22 w/ Type -S .25 pistons, running strong </TD></TR></TABLE>

x2 same setup.

great business with awesome customer support and knowledge.

david1686

I got my h22 a4 rebuilt and the machine shop said that my cylinders were oval and that they needed to bore the engine. The machine shop bored it over 20 and we put oem usdm over size pistons into the engine. Now my engine with exaggerating eats about a qaurt of oil every 200 miles. Could this be the cause of my head ache. How can i check for blow by.

prelittlelude

i called a couple places and they told me that the stone and presure where no problem but they just couldn't get their machines to run a such a low rpm... as long as the shop does it to the helms spec your fine,


then i also hear people that never hone frm they just slap new pistons and rings because the frm is harder than the rings so that is what wears away just polishing the frm sleeve.. i have read alot of shops when replacing same size and bore pistons they just put them right in without a rehone..

Honda318dx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by prelittlelude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have read alot of shops when replacing same size and bore pistons they just put them right in without a rehone.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I wouldn't re-hone unless its scratched up. Then I would just overbore to match the pistons

117

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david1686 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got my h22 a4 rebuilt and the machine shop said that my cylinders were oval and that they needed to bore the engine. The machine shop bored it over 20 and we put oem usdm over size pistons into the engine. Now my engine with exaggerating eats about a qaurt of oil every 200 miles. Could this be the cause of my head ache. How can i check for blow by.</TD></TR></TABLE>

20 over? As in 0.020" over the stock bore? That's too much. OS Honda H22 pistons are 0.25mm larger, or roughly 0.010" oversized. Stock piston to cylinder wall spec is right around 0.001" to 0.002" (just a little under 0.002", IIRC), so I would definitely suspect that's the source of your problems if they really bored it out 0.020" larger than stock!

DJ_SaNdOz

This is a great thread because I need a rebuild, but I am nervous about it. I don't have a need or desire to sleeve this sucker since it will just be Type S pistons + boltons.

T3T4H22

Go somewhere that does a lot of Porsches they have FRM sleeves as well.

Honda Power

any shops in the bay area that can do this?

Not_Rice4ws

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Not_Rice4ws &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This guy seems to have done some successfully:

I have done several H22 stock rebuilds using safety auto parts pistons following TB 1852 and no problems at all.

Mike Terrill
Norcal Engines
530-893-8224</TD></TR></TABLE>
norcal engines? as in northern california maybe?