h23V

i second that also if u truly have cp pistons ur motor won't last long if u didn't sleeve it. B/c u cant put forged pistons in a h22 with frm sleeves.

KreLude

Yes you can. Just NOT CP/Arias/JE...etc...
JUN/Cosworth & Mahle are forged.

prelude92si

i think he ment that type of forged piston the expansion rates and everything are different and dont mix with the stock sleeves AT ALL>>

h23V

Facts and Questions please read this

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...=416069&page=5

dutt

Here is the dyno chart...

I'm totally speechless & confused right now.

Thanks for the input/suggentions people.. I'll see what i can do with my engine builder n i'll keep u guys posted.

prelude92si

afr look like ****.. you sure u had a good tuner ? i like to be around 12.6-13.5 on NA 12.8 up top.. turbo i usually look at around 11.3-11.9 depending on the setup ur hitting nearly 12.0 on a na motor little to rich IMO. but its very scattered. and they must have timing off or something man this thing should be over 200 or so hp..did u have it port and polished? really the purpose that makes 1mm oversized valves benifit the motor is the head being port and polished and valve job. if ur interested i offer port and polish but good luck man

Doobie/ej1

wats frm stand for?

ilikehonda

frm = fiber reinforced matrix. honda used it to make the sleeves stronger that just plain iron. the sleeves are very strong but the down fall is that the fiber matrix does not allow for much expansion...even the material used has a much different expansion rate than regular iron sleeves.

unfortunatly in this situation the pistons and sleeves are probably ruined. the cams have to be thrown out and some much smaller cams will have to be ran.

Dutt you obviously did not do near enough research before you started this build.

Doobie/ej1

do b18b1's have frm?

gstrudler

no

bluedlude

the sleeves may not be destroyed depending on how much the engine was really run and the clearances used. I bought a block from a guy who had some forged JE's in there for a few thousand miles and the sleeves werent as torn up as one would expect.

Pull the engine and inspect the block. as ignorant as the engine builder sounds the cylinders likely werent bored and honed for the forged setup so you may have some wiggle room to do it right. probably a light hone on the block and a set of Mahles would drop in.

Getting your head to where it needs to be is another story. I would just pick up a new one.

spoolinlude

What are you confused about? You put forged pistons in a stock sleeve H22. Thats what happens. You're not totally torched though. Tear down the motor have it sleeved and pickup a new set of pistons. I'd say around 1500-2000 you'll be back. Actaully, if you didn't booger up the bore all that bad, you may be able to hone it and get some type s pistons... if you plan on staying N/A that is.

95greenlude

WOW, this thread is epic fail....

Apex1972

this is a joke,right?

Apex1972

for
real
morons

Apex1972

"HKS DHOB (drag high octane booster)" LOL

jnv255

Don't dyno dynamics read low anyways? Either way, take the motor apart.

Slick_LudE

iTrader: (2)

Easiest/cheapes fix to get your car back on the road is to swap a stock h22 back in to the car. Take off the head and put in on another H22.

Your rods are still probably okay. But your pistons are more than likely toast.

Next time do a bit or research instead of relying on a shop. You gotta remember that if they **** up ULTIMATELY the money comes out of your pocket.

Forged pistons + FRM (stock) sleeves = big no no.

KreLude

Our local Dyno Dynamics reads 10% lower than King's dynojet, so yah.
170whp with stock Cams doesn't seem too bad actually.
Bolt On H22s are making 150-160 there, and I know someones JDM H22A with JUN cams/built head was pretty much at 200whp.
What header is on this car and what size exhaust? If you're using a shitty header and off the shelf catback, that would also explain the lower number.
I'd think with those Cams installed and a better tune, 200whp isn't out of the question. 11.5:1 isn't much more than a JDM H22A with a shaved head, thinner head gasket, and flat valves.
Also, after having spent a lot of time here reading and researching, you just can't compare Dyno #'s to other peoples. The difference between an unloaded Dynapack and a dyno Dynamics could reach as high as 20-25%.


Now the condition of his walls in the future, thats another story.

q16racer

the fueling has very little to do with power. 13-12.0 AFR's isnt going to change the power level much. thats what ignition timing is for.
________
Oregon Marijuana Dispensary

Scheizty

could you explain why that is?

Are you sure about that? I'm pretty sure that the fuel curve has A LOT to do with power. Brake effective pressure should be at its max (power) while the fuel consumption should remain low so as not to waste fuel. Lean conditions will detonate, and rich conditions will lose power.

for the OP, what exhaust are you running?

Rosko

iTrader: (1)

He's right, ignition timing has WAY more to do with power than small AFR changes.

q16racer

im saying that knowing its understood that there would be a big difference in power (more less breaking up and no power lol) if you were testing say the difference between 15.0 WOT and 13.0 WOT. Running the engine a little rich and running the engine a little lean isnt going to gain much power was the fuel is tuned correctly unless the base tune was made that way and explains the need to fix the fueling.

however, when you see gains in the areas of 20-30whp from 1* of ignition timing advance (turbo) then you will see why fuel isn't where the power is made in the tuning process.
________
Landy

Scheizty

I do not think that fuel is the problem in the OP situation, but it needs to be clarified here that fuel ratio alteration does create power. Leaner conditions cause a faster flame front and higher cylinder pressures. But severly lean conditions cause detonation. It doesn't simply work that a 12.1 afr makes the best power. Afr tuning isn't as simple as being in a safety zone without detonation; by changing it by a tenth, considerable power may be made.

And the reason that a turbo engine makes good hp gains on timing is not because of the timing, it is because of the turbo.

I'm not saying that fuel makes more power than timing, I'm bringing clarity to the importance of fuel tuning.

q16racer

you are missing my whole point, but yes you are correct about the turbo allowing the power to be made initially.

i dont know what to say about your first paragraph. I do this for a living lol. Doesnt appear to me that you know much about tuning other than the internet. Which isn't bad, everyone starts somewhere. It's just that you are trying to tell me things and extremely over exaggerate minute points in the tuning process. You can fuel the motor all you want, but if the spark plug doesn't fire at the right time when the piston is on its way to TDC then the piston is either running away from the flame front or the flame front is trying to push the piston back down when its still trying to go up.

i understand you feel the need to clarify that fueling is important. Because it is and i completely agree.
________
Suzuki escudo specifications