EuRoBrO

Found out a price of 225 shipped for a P28 with the H22 program.Is this the ECU + chip to use in a H22 with all the bolt-on's? I'm using a P28 with a Mugen chip right now and its slower than my stock P13. I broke my Knock sensor and if this ecu with this program is a big improvement I will just buy that instead of wasting money towards another Knock Sensor. Thanks guys!

ColinKAccord

if you already have a P28, why dont you just buy another more stock-like chip. they go for alot cheaper.

or you could buy another p28 and give me your current one, ill pay for shipping

EuRoBrO

I would put a different chip in if the P28 was mine. I am borrowing it from a buddy of mine until I can get something suitable for my car.

satan_srv

get a real p13...you don't even know the specs of the program you are buying

EuRoBrO

I have the P13 that came with my JDM swap. But I broke the knock sensor and the P28 doesnt look for it plus you can't use a P13 with Hondata. The P28 will be nice with the H22 program(which is the correct fuel curve for the H22) which will make the fuel curve Poooifect (hopefully)

david_rg79

"I will just buy that instead of wasting money towards another Knock Sensor."

am i the only person who sees something worng with this statment?

You need your knock sensor, Honda put it there for a reason....you car may be a little faster without it but at what cost....whats cheaper a motor or knock sensor

what happens when you get a bad tank of gass...the ecu will still be running a crap-ton of timming and think its nice and happy until you break a ringland form detonation

My friend had the same mentality as you....and its costing him over 3k right now...I just stood with a smerk on my face...he ran w/o a ks for 6months and one day he did a little racing with a "jun" mapped ecu and boom to much timming and if the ecu had a knock sensor to feed off of it would have never happened

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EuRoBrO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have the P13 that came with my JDM swap. But I broke the knock sensor and the P28 doesnt look for it plus you can't use a P13 with Hondata. The P28 will be nice with the H22 program(which is the correct fuel curve for the H22) which will make the fuel curve Poooifect (hopefully) </TD></TR></TABLE>


were not talking hondata here.

off the self chips suck!

you cant guess how your engine will react based on someone else's does.

how much is this chip? hondata is less then 200 these days. besides most of the time you dont gain anything from these so called perfect chips!

edit: if your running hondata you may get away w/out a knock sensor. you can tune way better, disable it and make sure your tuner is good.


Modified by fastludeh22 at 12:52 AM 8/24/2004

EuRoBrO

So Honda put it there for a reason, Yes I understand that. But if it's so important(this is a question, not sarcasm) why wouldnt it come with other Honda motor's ex. 92-95 single cam civic. Or any Honda that uses a ECU that does NOT use a knock sensor. I am just in a rutt here and what to know what I should do. Buy a new knock sensor for 110 or order a P28 chipped with a H22 program? My car runs like **** and I need to do one of the two ASAP! I need a real answer, I keep getting two different ones, "dude, get a chipped P28 and then later on get Hondata, since its compatible with it. And then now I am getting that I should replace the knock sensor and stick with my JDM P13. Also I got the skunk manifold now, doesnt the P13 hold back on the fuel curve until the secondaries open on the ECU? Need some help here guys, Thanks!

v4lu3s

chips dont suck, paying a lot for hondata does if you ask me. i always wideband tune the chips i put into customers cars, unless they are not local, and at that point i use my own base maps i made with a wideband and my cars....i try to match their bolt ons to the ones in my 3 h22 powered cars and they can live with my base maps, which are usually decent if i take enough time to work on them.

Freemantle

Your intention is good but your point is invalid. Deeper study will show that he really dosen't need that knock sensor. It is my genuine opinion that he should not buy the chip or the knock sensor.

fastludeh22

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v4lu3s &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">chips dont suck...i always wideband tune the chips i put into customers cars...</TD></TR></TABLE>

thats different. i meant off the self chips. ill fix my post.

how much on avg for local tunes/chips for comparsion purposes.

and my stand on the subject is get a hondata and tuned now. get the knock sensor for piece of mind later on.

v4lu3s

normally i would charge around 120 for chipping and an hour of wideband...dyno costs are the persons responsibility, typically ill street tune since i like to work on part throttle as well.

david_rg79

well, if you look at what the engine was designed for the h22 and what not came with the knock sensor becasue they have very agressive timming maps, where as your single cam motors that are for economy dont have the agressive timming map have alot more room for error.

I have been building imports for 6 years now and i would never run a import without a knock sensor, unless its an economy car

I'm no honda pro, however i have built many 3sgte's, 7mgte's, 2b18a1's and one h22, and i have made sure the knock sensors are working properly, becasue engines that come with knock sensors need them working properly, the b18 i believe didnt have them and i installed gm knock sensors on them and wired them up so we could monitor the knock voltage though the standalone

Most the people on this board have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to the saftey of your motor and how to actually make power with your motor...Most people do not understand that timming is where the power is at, its not having the perfect air fuel ratio or running more boost...its getting the timming setup correctally, and honda did that with h22 and with the agressiveness of the map i would not cut the knock sensor out of the picture

I bet most these guys who say u dont need a knock sensor have NEVER tuned a car with standalone, or even understand how to tune a car with a safc, they probably put one of those gay blinky autometer air fuel ratio lights in their car and think everything is ok when the lights are green

I may be a litte more conservative, but when it comes to the saftey of your motor and mostly your pocket book i say play it safe bro

i need to do a few tests and monitor the knock voltage on stock honda knock sensor vs the gm knock sensor for a 1988 camero, because that gm sensor is the one that works for most toyotas and its only 28bux

sorry I'm new to the honda board, I own an accord as my daily driver, but my babies are toyotas

98TypeSH

hondata doesnt use a knock sensor. Usally they disable it when you are sittin on the dyno with the laptop. hondata is cool like that

EuRoBrO

See here we go again, two different sides. 1/2 says stick with P13 + get new knock sensor(and never be able to get Hondata) and 1/2 says FO-GET-TA-BOU-TIT and get the P28 with the correct fuel map.

So for the most part everyone that says that the knock sensor was put there for a reason and is def. needed with the H22 would never get Hondata correct?

And for the most part everyone that says I do not need the knock sensor says get the P28 and correct chip with fuel map???


Also no one ever answered my question about the P13 because of the secondaries and it being controlled from the ECU, wouldnt the fuel curve be different until the secondaries are supposed to be open even if you are already using the SKanK 2 IM?

And just for people here that are saying that I should keep the knock sensor and get a P28, the P28 does NOT use knock sensor so it would be pointless to purchase a new one.

I need to do something today, so someone please clear this up once and for all.

david_rg79

Man,
I personally would not run w/o a ks, but if you get a new ecu that dosnt utalize a ks then be very carefuly where you get your gass and only run 92(which i'm sure you already do)

IMHO hondata sucks *****, unless its the new tunable one, it is pointless, they burn a rom form a generic car and expect it to work with your setup and EVERY car is diffrent, we just did a RSX turbo with the new hondata and i really liked it,

but as i said before my friend chris thought he didnt need a ks, and he ran great with gsr ecu and gsr injectors with bumped up fuel pressure (I know gsr injectors are smaller however we got him tuned at 13.6 air fuel ratio), but when he threw in that "jun" tuned ecu and went to the track, he got towed 220miles back home an unhappy camper

its your decision my friend however i am sure you can get a used ks for 10bux at local junk yard(temporary use).....if you need a honda one

david_rg79

oh if you plan to run w/o a ks then just ground the ks wire to the motor or wherever and run the same ecu you had...but as i said watch for detonation...check your plugs at minimum if you aim me i can explain how to see if your car is running to much timming or to little timming or just right by looking at the plug

david

aim: boostmastermkiii

EuRoBrO

Your saying by grounding the knock sensor wire that I will NOT throw any codes for knock sensor and my car will not run in safety mode with my P13? Also do you know anything about the P13 and the secondaries + differences in fuel curve when they are supposed to be open/closed with a Skunk 2 Intake manifold.Sounds confusing I know but hope you know what I mean by it.

v4lu3s

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by david_rg79 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

IMHO hondata sucks *****, unless its the new tunable one, it is pointless, they burn a rom form a generic car and expect it to work with your setup and EVERY car is diffrent, we just did a RSX turbo with the new hondata and i really liked it,

</TD></TR></TABLE>

umm say what???
ALL versions of hondata can be tuned excet for the old p13 stage 1...whichh has been gone for a while.
and to quote hondata directly:

"Pricing and Options

The base price for the s100 is $245 This allows the ECU to be tuned by a dealer or anyone with ROM Editor V3 and a programmer. You will need a base program (ROM) for your vehicle/engine/ECU which you can get from your dealer."


the "generic" program is jsut supposed to be good enough to drive teh car to a dyno and get it tuned....


oh yeah and as fas your buddies "jun" tuned chip, he hsould really learn what is on a chip and how it performs before driving it hard, thats not the chips fault its the drivers fault. i run a p28 on my h22a civic, drive 90 miles one way to the track, beat the hell out of it day after day and it still runs amazingly well.

98TypeSH

it should be called a detonation sensor.

Just be sure to always use 91+ octane. Keep the motor free of dirt/debris. With the way cylinder heads and cumbustion chambers are designed and built, its highly unlikely you are going to have this problem unless you are changing something massive. (different ignition setup, weird pistons, some crazy head no one has ever heard of)

what are your plans for this motor ? you should be fine without a knock sensor, just take care of the beast.

explosive

I'll put my two cents in on this. I hate off the shelf ECU programs. Why? They just make things so easy to screw up.

First off, the biggest problem that I have with most of them is the fact that they won't allow you to have a rev limiter of any kind. That makes missing one gear and accidentily hitting the gas in neutral a deadly mistake.

Secondly, a lot of these off the shelf programs can be tuned on a dyno, but they don't allow you to do all of the things that Hondata allows you to do. Even if you wanted to find someone to tune one of these ECU programs, you'd have a really hard time finding someone experienced enough willing to mess with it.

In addition, most of the chipped ECU's are nothing more than base maps. As a result, you'll do what I have done for months, find out that you're running rich pretty bad at certain parts of the powerband and as a result, the car will occasionally feel really sluggish.

Finally, the worst part about these kind of programs is that it will make it so that you can't store ECU codes, and you end up having CEL lights come on, you'll turn the engine off, but you won't be able to see what code is being thrown oftentimes.

In short, spend the extra money and get Hondata. You won't regret it. I have yet to get a Hondata tuned ECU in my car (I'm hoping to get it in this week), but I know that nothing can be worse than a chipped ECU.

EuRoBrO

My plans for motor as of right now is just ALL the bolt ons. No internals and no head work. So back to the grounding the Knock sensor wire, will that bypass the knock sensor so I can still use the P13 with out a knock sensor and be clear of running in safe mode?

explosive

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EuRoBrO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My plans for motor as of right now is just ALL the bolt ons. No internals and no head work. So back to the grounding the Knock sensor wire, will that bypass the knock sensor so I can still use the P13 with out a knock sensor and be clear of running in safe mode?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do yourself a favor and if you aren't going to run a P28 with Hondata, don't use the chipped P28, use a P13 WITH A KNOCK SENSOR. If you need a knock sensor with that ECU, use one and be done with it. Not using one will lead to many problems down the road undoubtedly. In the long run, it'll be good for your engine and be less of a hassle. Nothing done right in this hobby is done cheaply.

EuRoBrO

Roger that. Yeah I am going to get a knock sensor ASAP and do the different ECU with hondata+tuned all at once and when I have enough $...thanks for the info guys. Appreciate it

PreludeRacer023

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EuRoBrO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have the P13 that came with my JDM swap. But I broke the knock sensor and the P28 doesnt look for it plus you can't use a P13 with Hondata. The P28 will be nice with the H22 program(which is the correct fuel curve for the H22) which will make the fuel curve Poooifect (hopefully) </TD></TR></TABLE>
im running a mugen GSR chip in my h22, and its considerably faster than any p13, not to mention it dynoed much higher than three other p13 programs....maybe its in your head or you have a bogus chip in your p28 now, i think you should buy chips from a reputable place that programs them that way you can take it back and show them if something isnt right, you never know what inside these ecus you buy of ebay, our old shop got 4 straight bone stock p28s from ebay that were said to be chipped