jdmlude_dude

Ok, so heres the deal. This topic is running rampant around the prelude forums and must be the popular trend with our cars. This forum is for the idling problem that I am many others are having. ALL (if can be helped) idling problems should be written up in this forum as far as falling RPM's, surging, etc. If we can direct all the questions and information to one article in the forum, then there is more of a change of find out the problem.

This problem that most of us are experiencing is when we let off of the gas and push in the clutch, the RPM's seem to take a nose dive down to near stalling out and then bouces back up. When the clutch is pushed in and the RPM's fall, it should take a steady fall until it reaches it idling RPM. Such as 800rpm's, give or take just a little. Some of us (as myself) are having the problem with that issue plus the occasional surging of the RPM's. Lets try to find the problem behind this.

Now as we talked about in the other forums the EGR was mentioned. I took it upon myself to clean out the EGR as it could be a possible culprit to the idling problem. So i feel that today, i but the EGR theory out!

I first started by adjusting the idle adjustment screw...no luck.

Then i took off the EGR for a cleaning that could possibly solve the problem.

Here is the EGR before cleaning



Then after



To conlude, the EGR did not seem to make a difference. When i first cranked it back up after cleaning the EGR, my motor was 1/2 way to normal temp(the first long bar, when fully warmed, there is a small bar and 2 long bars) and the RPM's did not drop off. I though I had it fixed, but when i get to normal temp, it started back up. So all of those who were posting in the other forums, Post here and state your problems again, we can work from there!! Hope this helps us get this fixed

high_revs

my motor and mods:
h23
stage 2 cams
8lb flywheel
act 6 puck with heavy duty pressure plate
removed bablancer belt
removed egr valve
removed secondaries
bypassed cold start valve
ebay cold air
66mm tb
1.6lb crank pulley
dc 4-2-1 headers with collector mod
2.5" full header back exhaust

sometimes it will idle around 950 where is where i want it
sometimes it surges from 1,000 to 2,000
and most of the times it idles 700 and then shuts off when comes to stop signs and such.

NDPNDT

different mods.. same problem...

jnet

The problem is not the EGR, it is the IACV (idle air control valve). Cleaning it has helped some people, but that is not the solution.

I recently talked to a honda tech and this is a very common problem in all Hondas. He stated that the problem is the IACV valve, and it must be taken off the car and you must spin the valve shut (if you look into the little hole on the IACV valve, you'll see a white valve with treads on it..if its clean, if its not then it will look black). I tried to spin the valve myself but had no luck.

I will be taking it to a honda place soon and have them do this procedure, I'll let everyone know how it goes and if it fixes my problem.

jdmlude_dude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem is not the EGR, it is the IACV (idle air control valve). Cleaning it has helped some people, but that is not the solution.

I recently talked to a honda tech and this is a very common problem in all Hondas. He stated that the problem is the IACV valve, and it must be taken off the car and you must spin the valve shut (if you look into the little hole on the IACV valve, you'll see a white valve with treads on it..if its clean, if its not then it will look black). I tried to spin the valve myself but had no luck.

I will be taking it to a honda place soon and have them do this procedure, I'll let everyone know how it goes and if it fixes my problem.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Where is this valve? Can you post a pic? If not i can find it and pull mine out and post a pic tomorrow or something. WHen will you know this? Keep us posted!

xxredpreludesixx

i cant post a pic but the valve is bolted to the fornt of the intake manifold and has 1 sensor wires and 2 coolant hoses 1 going into and 1 going out of it its 2 bolts and it comes off the take a tooth brush and clean it i had same idleing problem i cleaned that out and its fines now

EDIT: you want to clean the screen that is one of the holes u will see that goes to the intake manifold it will build up with carbon and it should run perfect well at least mine did

crdcz03

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The problem is not the EGR, it is the IACV (idle air control valve). Cleaning it has helped some people, but that is not the solution.

I recently talked to a honda tech and this is a very common problem in all Hondas. He stated that the problem is the IACV valve, and it must be taken off the car and you must spin the valve shut (if you look into the little hole on the IACV valve, you'll see a white valve with treads on it..if its clean, if its not then it will look black). I tried to spin the valve myself but had no luck.

I will be taking it to a honda place soon and have them do this procedure, I'll let everyone know how it goes and if it fixes my problem.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you just described the fast idle valve. mine is right around a year old, as well as my iacv.


heres my list 0' mods:

-ebay intake
-skunk2 intake manifold
-greddy header
-thermal exhaust
-h23 crank
-h23 rods
-h22 type-s pistons
-p&p h22 head
-h23 manual tensioner
-act streetlite flywheel (12lbs)
-act hdss clutch
-pos injectors
-spoon radiator cap
-P28 ecu (fyi for those who dont know, this ecu doesnt look for egr stuff)

OEM parts that have been replaced in the past year or so:
-iacv
-fiv
-t-belt
-balancerbelt
-thurst washers/bearings
-rod bearings
-distributor
-spark plugs
-spark plug wires
-throttle cable
-clutch master cylinder
-clutch slave cylinder
-every rubber seal on the engine
-pcv valve
-throw out bearing

i think thats all lmao

my problem is pretty much what these guys are talking about. however, if i set my throttle cable to the proper (honda spec) tension, my car will idle VERY low and when i push the clutch in any time it WILL stall. so i have mine tensioned tighter to keep it running. i have tried adjusting the idle screw on the throttle body which did absolutely nothing (until i turned it the wrong way and the engine died b/c idle went too low lmao)


things i have tried to do to fix this problem is:
-valve adjustment (.008in and .010ex)
-throttle cable
-idle relearn procedure

things i plan to do to try and correct the problem:
-new injectors and go back to the dyno
-sell/trade the skunk2 intake mani for a stock one

open to suggestions tho lol obviously

edit: heres a video of me coming to a stop.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D

enjoy

high_revs

i will try to clean my fast idle valve tomorrow....i was gonna do it today but didnt get a chance.....i will report back 2morrow...its worth a shot.

jdmlude_dude

CRDCZ03, you need to clean your dash board!! LOL.

I just got back home and my car seems like it does it even worse. Now mine doesnt stall all of the way out, but it will drop and then start surging. the only way i can get to stop surging is to feather in the clutch to hold the rpm's at one spot(sort of like an automatic would), then it will stop. I have had this problem for like the last 2 years and never really thought much of till now because it has gotten worse.

jdmlude_dude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xxredpreludesixx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i cant post a pic but the valve is bolted to the fornt of the intake manifold and has 1 sensor wires and 2 coolant hoses 1 going into and 1 going out of it its 2 bolts and it comes off the take a tooth brush and clean it i had same idleing problem i cleaned that out and its fines now

EDIT: you want to clean the screen that is one of the holes u will see that goes to the intake manifold it will build up with carbon and it should run perfect well at least mine did</TD></TR></TABLE>

Is their any fear of pushing that little screen into the intake manifold? What is the best thing to clean it with? Will any coolant leak out? If I clean mine off, it will be friday. If anyone else does it before then and can, post pics. If not i can post them friday.

xxredpreludesixx

i cant post pics but i can try tommorow to put some no there isnt any fear the screen is on the valve just use a toothbrush and softly clean off the carbon buildup it gets ive done it before i did just the other weak on my h23 just lightly do it the screen is again attached to the valve

crdcz03

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmlude_dude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CRDCZ03, you need to clean your dash board!! LOL.

I just got back home and my car seems like it does it even worse. Now mine doesnt stall all of the way out, but it will drop and then start surging. the only way i can get to stop surging is to feather in the clutch to hold the rpm's at one spot(sort of like an automatic would), then it will stop. I have had this problem for like the last 2 years and never really thought much of till now because it has gotten worse.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

im unmotivated to clean my car b/c of recent car troubles. i wont clean it until she behaves but yeah it is exceptionally dusty due to having to drive through 3 constrution areas on the to and from work everyday with the windows down b/c i dont have a/c lol.


but anways, update on my situation. ive learned that if i hold the clutch in while stopped and with my foot off the gas. sometimes it stalls, or it goes down to 200ish rpms then itll go up and down between 200 and 1000. the second i let go of the clutch it stops and goes back to 1000

and theres a new squeeky noise when the clutch is pushed in... i really dont even like driving it anymore, teh sadness

jdmlude_dude

have you tried cleaning the IACV out yet? See if that helps. It confuses me whenever i can stop the surging by feathering the clutch. I have had the sweaking noise forever!! I think it is the cup and ball where the slave cylinder is. This whole thing gets on my nerves. I am going to try cleaning the IACV and see if that helps, but I am back at college for a damn exam, so i have to wait till friday. But your problem CRDCZ03 is much worse than mine! If i set dizzy timing to where it is suppose to be, it will barely run, so i have to advance it as far as it can go for all three bolts in it for it to run. Try advancing the dizzy timing just as a temp fix until we find something out. Just make sure to jump the ECU with that little jumper behind your consol or else the new timing will not read. You want to do this timing with the car running and the ecu jumped. If the ecu is not jumped when turning the dizzy, the car may die. Mine did every time. You can adjust it with the motor off but you cant hear it run and change and you have to unplug your battery to clear the ECU.

jnet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crdcz03 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you just described the fast idle valve. mine is right around a year old, as well as my iacv.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

What I described is NOT the fast idle valve. The fast idle valve is on the passenger side of the intake manifold, by the EGR, and under the intake manifold. The IACV is in front of the manifold behind the fuel rail, and this is the piece I am describing.

The fast idle valve does not effect warm idling, it only affects the cold start idle, when your car will idle higher (around 1200-1500rpm). If you have a bouncy cold start idle, the FITV is probably the issue.

However, the IACV controls warm idling. The way the Honda technician explained it to me is this: The IACV interprets a signal from the ECU with an electrical load sensor, and depending on the electrical load, the IACV is supposed to keep the idle steady. When the IACV stops doing its job, the idle will go low, which is what is happening to most of us people when we use power steering, press in the clutch, etc.

If we don't have a picture up by tomorrow I will take mine off and show everyone what it looks like. I'll also post pics of the FITV and the IACV so people can start differentiating the two.

high_revs

cleaning IACV didnt help my idle issues..

jdmlude_dude

i wonder if doing the seafoam thing would help out any?

L8ApexH22

jdmlude_dude

awesome pic, thanks alot!

mgags7

Someone was saying there is a screw inside the back of the FITV that supposedly falls out and causes this, i havent checked that yet, but does anyone know if that works or not?

2point3h22lude

When I pulled out my IACV the screen was clean.

My car stalls out when I rev the engine and take my foot off the gas, either stopped or after a high rev run as I coast to slow down. This thing is pisses me off everytime it does that. Just imagine going 135 mph and the engine stalls as you take your foot off the gas. No big deal now that I'm used to it, but at that speed and you see all the dang red lights on the dash come on for the first time, I panicked a llittle bit as I fumbled to reach for the keys and start the car back up while trying to keep my eye on the road. Not a fun experience.

98TypeSH

You do know that after you adjust your idle screw, you need to reset the ECU right ? You cant just start the car and adjust the screw and expect your idle to be better, its needs an ECU reset, even says it in the HELMS. Also, try bleeding your cooling system. Pop the rad cap off ( WHEN ITS COLD OR IT WILL EXPLODE ALL OVER YOU WITH HOT WATER/COOLANT) Start the car , put the heater at full blast, start adding coolant or water, then let the bubbles stop and cap her off.

give those a try. After my head swap my car did this, i just bled the **** out of the cooling system, 3-4 times and mine was good. Bleed it, go beat on it, bleed it again, beat on it some more .

crdcz03

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jnet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What I described is NOT the fast idle valve. The fast idle valve is on the passenger side of the intake manifold, by the EGR, and under the intake manifold. The IACV is in front of the manifold behind the fuel rail, and this is the piece I am describing.
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i know what they do and where they're located. but what you described sounds exactly what i did to my FIV back when i had an h23 with a surging cold idle.

high_revs

i didnt know about reseting the ecu after you adjust the idle screw...im gonna go try this and try bleeding the colling system although i've done it a million times.

high_revs

fuel pressure right now is at 32ish psi...and timing is up a bit...should i try messing around with it a little more??? a tune is coming!!!! lol...collector mod hopefully 2morrow!

boostinh22

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