PirateMcFred

Here is a video of my Prelude going around the track last weekend. It was an earlier session in the morning so it was about 48 or so degrees and I was not going all that fast yet (cold tires and track). Later in the afternoon it was a lot warmer and the track had full sun all day so I was going a second faster or so.

It is a 7 meg Quicktime format that requires V7.0 or later. I tried to do a universal MPEG-4 but We-Todd does allow that file type to be uploaded.

right click, save as.
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....5NTQx
I love the sound of tires squealing

If you put the vid on loop for 76 laps that is basically what I did all day last Saturday. I can't wait until March when I can get the new Azenis 615 in 225/50/16. OMG that is going to be nice. *drool*

Pirate

SteveoBA8

Badass pirate, i bet that midrange is perfect for what your doing.

PirateMcFred

<u>Track Day Update:</u>
New Personal Best with a 3 lap average of 1:39.15. Since that is the average I might have even broke 1:38 unless I am freakishly consistent.

The car ran well for another 100 miles of torture and the hybrid engine is still cranking out the torque. I did have a coolant temperature issue but I think that the radiator cap is old and so it does not hold the pressure. I would park the car and it would start hissing from the overflow tank. But the temperature gauge on the dash never read above the midddle bar. Perhaps a new cap will fix it.

I found a place that had the newly-released Falken Azenis 615 tire in a 215/45/16. I had them mounted and balanced at Discount tire. The monkies there did a decent job of balancing them but later when it was 93˚F, sunny and subjected to 15 minute track sessions the adhesive on the tape lost a lot of its grip. The weights actually were sliding towards the outside of the wheels and the tape-weights would eventually fall off from heat. At least there is a tape smear to indicate the weight location so I can reinstall the weights myself.

At first I had trouble finding a tire pressure that supplied decent grip. I was running 30 psi earlier in the year when it was almost 40 degrees cooler so I thought I would try a higher pressure to keep the tire temps down. It did not really help. So each session out I kept dropping pressure and it only got better.

I could have driven it harder, but I took it pretty easy since there was another motorcycle track event the following day. It ultimately means that I can manage consistant 1:38 times when I am not as worried about fatigue, figure out the optimal tire pressure, and find a way to consistently tackle this one double apex turn that I have yet to find a satisfactory line thorugh. 1:38's are really good for stock suspension!!

Pirate

prelittlelude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PirateMcFred &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The car ran well for another 100 miles of torture and the hybrid engine is still cranking out the torque. I did have a coolant temperature issue but I think that the radiator cap is old and so it does not hold the pressure. I would park the car and it would start hissing from the overflow tank. But the temperature gauge on the dash never read above the midddle bar. Perhaps a new cap will fix it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i don;t like the sounds of that.. better be just the cap..

man you are racking up those miles fast on that hybrid and its still going strong. haha can't wait to see that video , im at work i have to run and find some head phones and i will watch it. I hope ytou get that tire press down so you can continue to improve on your times! keep us posted as always and keep runing that bitch hard. also look into that coolant issue. did you tune out that knocking with this warmer weather?

*runs to find headphones*

PirateMcFred

Nah I cheaped out, I had barely enough time to get the car prepped. Gas, Tires, new brake pads, and fluid, swapping wheels, making lunches etc. It takes more time than you'd think. I just put in a couple gallons of toluene to raise the octane so that the tip-in ping would go away. The vid gives an idea of what's going on. I am shifting differently now I have a larger diameter tire, I use 3rd gear a lot more and fourth not so much except on the front straight and through turn one.

Saturday I was sharing the same stretch of track with some new Corvette (not the new C6 just regular). I passed him. Pretty sad really, although it was nice to see the car at the track instead of street racing. There was a new Porche GT3 and due to the tight nature of this particular track I was just as fast. Though to the driver's credit it was his first day at this track. Maybe his last too. He ran the poor car into the tirewall. Just cosmetic damage but it might have spooked him, I hope he comes back it was a really really nice car.

He left early so I did not really get a chance to get a good picture:


I will try to get some newer footage and better pics next track day.

Pirate

thresher

i know this guy used the the f23 block. but i wanna use an f22 block with the h23 head. will this still still work?

PirateMcFred

Yes, the F22 block will work just the same as the F23 but I do not recommend using H22 pistons like I did.

-This Guy

thresher

well i talked to homeby da9b16 and talked somewhat to him about this. if i could avoid pulling the motor out would i be able to keep all f22b1 internals (since the car is f22b1) and swap out the head and use a different ecu? its 5speed so i think the ecu sitch wont be as hard.


Modified by thresher at 6:03 PM 7/6/2006

ghostofnyc

iTrader: (3)

good info

kleankord

wassup pirate. It's been a long time since I spoke to you, but as a refresher: I have a 6th gen accord and swapping over the head. Finally got to it today, and got held up by a couple of questions/issues.

I thought I had everything, but don't have an h23 fuel rail. When I compared parts numbers the part for the 98 accord is different from that of the h23. sooo.. that's on the shopping list.

Next you recommended using hondabond to fill the oil drain. Mine doesn't look anything like yours, the silicone flows almost like water. Also how long is it supposed to cure?

Thanks man.

PirateMcFred

I remember you just fine. I hope you figured out the exhaust stuff. The sealant I used was Permatex Gray liquid sealant. Pretty common stuff and works really well from what I have seen. Stays where you put it and gets tacky in about an hour if left in a lump. Cures fully in about 24 hours or less. Be sure to pry apart the layers of the headgasket or oil will seep out from inbetween but be sure to torque the head on shortly after applying that sealant or it might not seal well and could hold the head up off the gasket. Though the latter is not likely.

Pirate

PirateMcFred

Well Sunday I went to the track to abuse my car more. But before I got on the track a buddy noticed that my engine was sitting lower on the driver's side than elsewhere.

Turns out the driver's side mount is broken. Another buddy grabbed this particular F22A mount out of a junk yard a while back. The mount could have been cracked from a wreck and it finally gave up on my engine or it could be that it is inferior to the H22/H23 mount (which I doubt) or I am making too much torque (which I also doubt). I don't know, but I will get another F22 mount and will try it again, perhaps with reinforcement.

The good thing is that the mount is simple to replace. The bad thing is that when it cracked it left only one bolt to hold up that side of the engine. That bolt broke off flush with the block. More good news is that the broken bolt did not drop into the timing belt assembly and blow the engine. More bad news is that it is a tight fit and getting access to it to drill it out will be difficult. Again good news is that the threads are not stripped so I do not have to pull the engine to helicoil the holes. Bad news is that this stuff keeps happening.

Oh well. At least I get to use this opportunity to replace my leaking cam seal with a home-made one (I love lathes) and I get a chance to check my valve lash again, and inspect my cam gears etc.. There are more track days in September and October where I can make up for time lost.

Pics:

AndyD

iTrader: (1)

Man, that's aweosme you are tracking the car with this engine too. I would love to see how the engine behaves on the track.

I would SOOOOO love to buy a 90-93 Accord and build an engine like this for it. It would be a fun sleeper to make...and be a great daily driver.

As for a G23 VTEC, would you say a stock H22 head is best for this setup since the cams make power earlier than more aftermarket H22 cams? That way you don't need to rev it as high to make power? This is just a guess. I would like to know what you think.

PirateMcFred

Of course I track my poor car. It is not worth much otherwise. It is ugly and has almost no amenities and has so much 'custom' stuff done to it that it would be a nightmare for the next owner to maintain. Besides I cannot think of a better way to test the longevity of this hybrid engine. You actually can see how it behaves on the track I have posted this vid in a few different places:

Quicktime format (We-Todd does not allow MP4s)
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....5NTQx
Keep in mind that this is at 5500' elevation when I street tuned it at 500' elevation it was a LOT more fun.

My old H22 on Type-S cams peaked around 7200 rpm, but the peak power can be greatly affected by the induction systems. The Euro R IM/TB seems to really support the higher rpm power but I don't know what it does to the lower rpms. A custom header like RMF/SMSP etc. can help focus the power to a particular rpm range. Either lightweight forged pistons or a rod/rod bolt upgrade is a definite recommendation for high revving apps.

My only gripe with stock cams are the mild primary lobe specs. If I had my way I would have some 205˚ high lift primaries and a mild 245˚ vtec lobe. basicfally just focus the power into the midrange but still have a functional top end. 280 hp at 9000 rpm is not useful to me unless I come up with some 13" wheels or some $1000 final drive that destroys highway manners. With some .430"-.450" lift cams the superior flow characteristic of the H22 head can be utilized for the midrange, before VTEC too.

As for a 'sleeper' Accord with an engine like mine the idle is a dead giveaway that it is not stock.

Pirate

PirateMcFred

Well I found a junkyard that had a mount for $5.27 after tax. I have to modify one little thing like I did the last mount. But that will take an hour or less and then I can put it all back together tonight. I am kind of surprised that people were charging $25 or so for an F22A motor mount that normally they could not give away. $5 suits me just fine, even if I did have to go to the junk yard and pull it myself.

I lucked out on the mount bolt that broke off in the block. The threads were not tweaked and a little superglue and the other half of the bolt let me extract the remaining piece from the block by hand. It could have been much worse. I would have had to pull most of the engine to get to it.

This mount had better last.

Since I have the crank pulley off I took the liberty of putting the balance shaft belt back on. Before I fully assemble the timing covers and whatnot I am going to give the balance shaft belt a quick test and see if it is even worth running them. If it reduces vibration significantly then I will keep it. Just to keep all the nuts and bolts from backing out.

I also installed the cam seal, checked my valve lash and double checked that my cam gear bolts are tight.

Next I have to do a degreasing of the engine bay from the leaky cam seal and then do an oil change. It should be good for next month's track day.

Pirate

prelittlelude

see sometimes its good to get in there and take care of those things you "have been meaning to do". that also awesome news that you were able to get that last half og the bolt out with just super glue . im willing to bet that the balancer shafts will make a good deal of difference for you vibration problems, espcially sine you have the 97mm stroke and heavy pistons.

too bad i couldn't find my f22 mount it probably would have been just the same in shipping. i can't see paying 25 for a mount !

get that biotch up and runing.

MadCityLude

Well I just bought another prelude, needed a swap so I picked up an almost complet F22b1 longblock with 60k on it. Missing the TB, injectors and rail, dizzy, and exhaust mani. So I started looking around for these parts, checking prices etc. Then it dawns on me, rather than wasting my money on all these parts maybe I can find a 100% complete H23a head. I am pretty sure that ultimately this would be a good way to get more power anyway. Now however I would like to use all stock internals in the F22b1 block and a 100% oem H23a head. Is this possible? What else will I need? Is this going to be a much larger project than I think. After reading this and prettyludes hybrid writeups I have an idea of what I am doing, but need a little help.Thanks

PirateMcFred

Yes, it's possible.

I suppose it depends on your budget. Typically when you get a 'cheap' H23 it is some nasty greaseball on it's way out after 200+ thousand miles just waiting to throw a rod. A relatively inexpensive alternative to building your own or swapping a low power SOHC is a low mileage imported F22B DOHC engine. I see them on fleabay all the time for $400 or so and if you live near an importer you can just go pick one up. An F22B will get you where you want to go and it will not be a timebomb waiting to fall apart on you.

Mind you I am NOT saying that these hybrids are unreliable. I am saying that when you hand turn every nut and bolt on an engine if you forget to torque just one it can destroy your engine. With a Honda-assembled engine you have a little extra reliability and it is faster than building your own from extra parts.

Pirate

MadCityLude

Well my plan is actually a little bit of a cross between your thread and prelittlelude's inthat I am gonna leave the bottom end 100% stock as well as the head. I just wanna bolt them together and boost it. I am thinking a DSM junkyard turbo setup as well. I will probably drive it around for a few thousand first though. This should bolt right up with no modification right? I read about 32 pages of prelittleludes thread and all of yours so I am pretty sure I know what I am getting into. I have to make a waterpipe, and trim the F23 headgasket slightly to allow better coolant passages. And I may have to hondabond a spot or 2 around the headgasket right? Am I missing anything? I shouldn't have to eliminate any of the copper rings from the gasket right? There are no plugs to worry about? I am gonna get ARP studs. The water pump will work stock? My compression will be around 8.44:1 stock so I am thinking of milling the block and head each .005 and removing a layer from the gasket? Does that sound right? That should bump me to just over 9:1 correct? I am gonna use the plug under the oil filter for my oil pressure guage and eventually for my turbo setup like TOM did. Please let me know if any of this sound incorrect! Anything else I need to know?

PirateMcFred

You neglect to mention which head you want to use.

As you were told in Prelittlelude's thread DSM will not work on an H22 head or F22Bx SOHC engines with the siamesed exhaust ports.

If you want to use the H22 head you are in the wrong thread. I have never done that head swap onto an F-series. I do nonVTEC stuff here.

Pirate

MadCityLude

Sorry it was late, yea I am using the H23a head for this build. I meant to say that!

PirateMcFred

Well It was a shakey start. I was entertaining friends at the Albuquerque Balloon Festival at 5:30am and did not get to the track until about 10:15am. The driver's meeting was at 8:45. Oops. That's okay though I snuck in with the last group of the "slower" people's first session and paced a nice white Scooby STI. To his credit he could have used lot more practice in the turns. He was apexing really late and was outside the line. He was definatley faster on the straights but braked too early, for an STI at least. STI rotors are almost the size of my wheels. But I got in another 80 miles of road racing. Engine's holding up fine it seems but i bet that I should get an oil cooler some time or adapt the OEM H-series one.

There was some really nice hardware there. A Viper, and a GT-40 and a fleet of WRX's and STIs. believe it or not I passed the Ford GT40. Lol he might have a couple paint chips courtesy of my kicking up sand and bits of gravel as I passed him on the front straight. I understand why he was taking it so easy. I can appreciate that he is actually at the track, even if he does not want to push it. A $150K car is an expensive toy to break. I did not get any times, just out to have fun and chase down more expensive cars.

These are not my photos, they are Yugamu's from http://www.racingsouthwest.com. I am hot linking them without permission. I guess that makes me a Pirate or something. It is only PhotoBucket's bandwidth though.




The next track day is a half day one and in early December. I might have my new toy for it and I might be investing in some electric underwear for that day. I have a feeling it will be COLD . P.S. a little drizzles makes for some fun exits on sharp turns. and this' not a bad 2000th post huh?

Pirate

SteveoBA8

New toy?

PirateMcFred

I'm not letting the cat out of the bag just yet, but it ought to be a lot of fun. Here's a hint: it's i-VTEC powered and RWD. I'll give you 3 guesses...

My Poor Prelude might not get many more roadracing laps to say the least.

Pirate

vinuneuro

You also previously said it's domestic....(scratches head). Either way, i-vtec/rwd, how can you go wrong..