MikeySmikey

Hey guys, I'm brand new to the Honda world but by no means new to automotive performance. I'll get to it and try to keep it short.




I recently acquired a 92 Lude with an H22A4 swapped in from an 01 Lude. I've had it for a few weeks and this is my first Honda ever. Here's what I know:
- Block serial begins with 500xxxx indicating it is in fact from an 01
- the car is OBD1
- the ECU is an OBD1 P75 from a 92-95 Integra
- the dizzy is in fact OBD1

Here's some more info I've acquired in the last couple days:
- the current ECU will not control the VTEC (bleh)
- the block should be an open deck
- the speedo doesn't work and VTEC will not work without some sort of speed info to the ECU (correct?)
- the car is COOL AS ****!!

My reason for posting is because I have a few issues and need some advice.

1. First, at idle there's a wicked vibration. The whole car turns into a giant vibrator (the ladies don't mind). Could that be caused by the balance shaft? I have no idea if it's been bypassed by one method or another.

2. Second, I know my ECU is not at all correct for my application, which ECU would be best? I've done a bit of reading on this and see different advice. Some say get a P13 since it's correct for the engine, others say use P28, and others say use a P72. This car WILL get boosted, but not for some time (I'm a poor man), so I would prefer something that will give me that versatility in the future.

3. The car idles a little high for my liking, usually around 1200 RPM. There's no misfire and doesn't seem to be running rich. Unless the ECU has been altered the fuel mapping is for a 1.8L engine so most likely it's running lean. What could be some causes for the increased idle speed?

Like I said, I'm not new to performance cars. I've been a domestic car builder for years, mostly older carbureted V-8's with the occasional MPI fox body Mustang.

Thanks in advance for the help guys, and here's a few pics. Sorry they're just links.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ckizo8upnc...2008.31.26.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yh0dmez0ts...2016.32.47.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6g7ebx4cc...2016.32.36.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/23cs9v2m1z...2016.33.16.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rxb60vq311...2017.47.40.jpg

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Well look into the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) issue which is most likely a bad/loose wire or the sensor itself, and get a different ecu and the vtec should work. You should get a p13 since that is the correct one for the car and engine, it will work vtec and make your car run on the correct stock mapping. The ecu you have is for a b18a engine that came without vtec so there is your issue. If you want a chipped ecu then yes get a p28 or p72 and go from there. As for the vibration is it only upon start up or does it virbate the entire time you are driving it?

If the car idles a little high try adjust the idle screw via the one on the throttle body right below the map sensor.

razorlude

H22a1(JDM prelude bb1&4 SI VTEC) open deck ecu p13.h224(JDM prelude bb&8 VTEC or accord euro r cl1) close deck ecu not sure.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

h22a4 ecu is p5m and the h22a euro-r cl1 is a PCD model

MikeySmikey

Thanks for the response. I did notice that on what I believe is the VSS (located on the top of the transmission) there is an additional wire spliced into the mix. I wonder if that could be the culprit. I'll post a pic of that in a little bit.

On the ECU, I think in my area getting a P13 will prove to be a little difficult. There might be about 5 Preludes in the whole city, the place is full of Civics and whatnot. I'll hit up a scrap yard this weeked and see what I can dig up.

On the vibration, it only vibrates at idle. During acceleration vibration is minimal.

A new H22A build is in the works, I've been sourcing parts all day. It's amazing how expensive this stuff is. I could build 2 stout small block Chevy's for what one Honda 4 banger costs. What are some of your preferred sites for performance parts? I'm so used to Jegs or Summit and their selection for imports isn't the best.

MikeySmikey

Here's a good link for Honda ECU's.

http://www.hondata.com/techecuid.html

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Try buying a p13 online somewhere its easier that way if you cant source one from a wrecking yard. Also the vibration sounds like it might be your engine mounts check them all for breaks and cracks, and make sure they are torqued to correct spec.
The VSS having a another wire in there does sound like your issue as to why your speedo doesn't work properly, I will wait til you upload the picture to make a final judgement.

MikeySmikey

Here's a link to the photo. If this isn't the VSS please let me know what this is and where the VSS is. thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsjlczg7ar...2014.32.47.jpg

Also my throttle body doesn't look like the one in the pic you posted. Here's mine. Minor differences...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hwbs2595ym...2014.31.53.jpg

MikeySmikey

Nevermind on the throttle body. The MAP sensor on later models was on the TB, on mine it's on the firewall.

Sparksman

it doesnt matter between JDM, USDM, EDM, 92-96 H series are closed deck. 97+ are all open.

OP, You can keep you ECU if you like, all 5spd OBD1 ecu's can be chipped, socketed and tuned. It may be cheaper for you at this point to just buy a pre-done ecu, or have yours done for you. You can do yourself if you know how for like $20 bucks. Once thats done it will be the same as a P28, get Neptune or Hondata and your golden on the ECU front.

Yes 4th gen MAP sensors are located on the firewall. If it was a obd2 and you wanted to swap out TB its still possible.

I think its funny when domestic guys see how much things cost. Your average american v8's between the 80's until the new millennium had maybe 250hp at the crank. Maybe 220whp or so and got 5 MPG on the road. You can achieve that with basic cheap bolt ons and still get almost 30 MPG with our cars. Its the research and development that goes into the engines and parts that drives the price.

This 20 year gap of american cars sucking big popsicles is why alot of my generation chose to love imports who had about the same HP ratings but got 20+ more mpg. Being young means your often broke as a joke...

Granted built to the tilt, moneys no option. A 6cyl will beat a 4cyl. A v8 will beat a 6cyl. A v10 will beat a 8 cylinder and so on. Which is more fun? A car you take to the track and do 8 second passes twice a month, Or the car you can have more seat time in? You can go for long road trips, or go rally some distant roads without having to map out every gas station along the way. Semi built you can have just as much power if not more then if you just did a bulky stock v8 swap. But weighs 1/4 of the weight, which means more agility.

Sparksman

As for parts, its not where you buy them its what you buy!... Honestly Ive bought many of my parts off of Ebay, I love Ebay! PasswordJDM, Summit, and a lot of other companies sell their overstock on Ebay for less then their own websites!

There is a ton of garbage on Ebay, ricer stuff... But its YOU the owners responsibility to know what to buy or not. If i buy a name brand part for less then this guy over there, and its same brand, series, everything. Why because its from "ebay" would it be any less of quality??? Theres a big thing in the car world Ebay is "bad"... I say its the dumbass people who just blindly throw money at parts without doing research first who make ebay look bad.

Sean628

[QUOTE=MikeySmikey;49283768]Here's a link to the photo. If this isn't the VSS please let me know what this is and where the VSS is. thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsjlczg7ar...2014.32.47.jpg
QUOTE]
that's for the backup light, vss is further to the firewall w 2 small ps hose attached.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Your VSS is located more towards the firewall, and its right in the area outlined in red.

And this is an image I borrowed from 1funyard's thread, this is what your Vss looks like.

MikeySmikey

Wow, I just took a look and that thing is a bitch to get to. I'll see if I can get to it tomorrow.

I have another question, how much from a 96 Prelude is interchangeable? There's one at the local Pick N Pull and I'd like to swap out the gauge cluster. I like the backlight more than mine. And it also had the nicer center console between the front and rear seats that I'm gonna get tomorrow. It also had a pair of Tein coilovers on the rear (score!) Nearly everything else on the car has been robbed though. I also checked just about every other Honda on the lot for an ECU and no dice.

Sparksman

Every nut and bolt is interchangeable for any prelude years 92-96. I think your referring to the El gauge cluster on the Vtec models from 94, 95, and 96.

Check craigslist for a ecu if you want a new one, I see them on there all day long. If you plan to tune at all you cant use any Prelude ecu, only civic and integra ecu's will work. Call your local tune shops and many will socket, chip, and flash tune your P75 ecu to a P28. The circuit boards are the same, its just a matter of soldering.

MikeySmikey

Is there any way to tell if that's already been done to my P75? Scavengers stripped every Civic on the lot of their ECU's, and most of their engines. I didn't find a couple good B18's while I was there though. I'm almost tempted...

Sparksman

Well I hope it has because that ecu wasnt made for the engine your running.... You would be running crazy rich or crazy lean which neither would be good.

Take off the cover of your ecu, snap a pic and post it up on here.

Does you vtec engage? They prob had to run vtec wire anyhow since you're harness wasn't a vtec one. That's the Ls non vtec ecu right? So if vtec engages its more then likely chipped.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

Sparksman is right you should just pay a local tune shop or send in your p75 ecu to get converted to a p28 spec with socketing and a chip installed. It will cost you around $65 for that to be done, it is still a lot cheaper then buying a chipped p28 from the internet or getting a p13 they run anywhere from $130-$200.

MikeySmikey

Honestly I couldn't tell you if VTEC engages or not. I don't know what conditions need to be in place for it to activate. The harness should be an OBD1 VTEC harness... I think anyway. I'll try to get a pic in a little bit and post a link.

Sparksman

only two conditions need to be met for vtec to engage. You need to be moving"not sure of exact mph", and you need to hit the set engage point rpm"no lower then 3k for oil pressure". Factory setting is 5,300 rpm's i believe. Just take it out on the road, wind it up and listen to hear a slight change in tone around 5,300 rpms.

Contrary to what most people think vtec shouldnt "crack", or have a hard hit when it does turn on. A well tuned car will have a smooth transition between the two cam lobes.

hmm... see here is where im not 100% sure. I've heard some non-vtec preludes came with a vtec harness, and some didnt. I own a 94'vtec model and know mine came with it so never put much research into that.

Look at your vtec solenoid on your head and see where the wire runs. If it goes into the harness you do, if it runs separate to the ecu you dont.

MikeySmikey

According to the VIN mine is a 92 Si which came with an H23A from the factory, so in stock form it would not have had the VTEC harness. Now taking into consideration that a later model OBD2 VTEC engine was swapped in but was converted to OBD1, it may be safe to assume one of two things: it still has the stock harness modified for VTEC, or it has a different harness altogether. In either case I wouldn't know how to tell the difference.

www DOT hondacivicforum DOT com/forum/ecu-tuning-fuel-management-33/ecu-pinouts-vtec-wiring-ecu-vtec-conversion-information-73241/

I'll look at the solenoid tomorrow when I have more light and while I'm looking into the VSS.

Here are some pics of the ECU. Notice the one with the red arrow... that wire looks spliced into the ECU and looks to be wired to pin #4 in connector A, which is the VTEC solenoid pin. Hmmm.

Sorry for having to link to pics, I'm in the process of syncing my dropbox to my pc and it takes a while.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j4m5rytyiq...9-19-21-17.png

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejmct4bg02...2019.08.55.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u1aji3fq09...2019.16.33.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/miaehtxdbw...2019.16.46.jpg

Sparksman

I dont believe you have the obd2 harness originally for the h22a4. You would need a lot of adapter including a obvious one to your ecu. You for sure have a obd1 harness and it looks like the wire goes strait into the harness bunch. Check it out under the hood tomorrow and it may very well have came with it factory.

Yes your ecu has been chipped already, it is essentially a P28. In the third pic down, there a chip in the top left corner that has a gold SST on it. That 28-pin chip is what holds the program mapping for the h22a4. You remove that chip and plug the hondata or neptune unit in that same 28-pin socket. Only thing left to do wold be solder the 4 data logger pins.

MikeySmikey

Ok, so if it's been chipped already it should be good. It would be nice if there was a local Honda tuning shop I could take it to and have it checked out. And if it's essentially a P28 then it won't control the secondaries on the intake, bummer. I'll just use that as an excuse to buy a Skunk2 intake lol

Could you elaborate on the data logger pins?

On that wire I said looked spliced in, it's wrapped around the back of the bundle with electrical tape. It's a little hard to see in the pic, I'll get a better one tomorrow.

Sparksman

If it starts the engine and runs then the ECU is good. No need to take to a shop unless you want to have tuned. Dont worry about the datalogger pins because you need Hondata or Neptune first which would be another $4-$500 investment.

Arent those secondaries controlled by vacuum? Its been a few years since i had my factory intake, but i dont recall any electrical bits.

Dont buy a Skunk2 intake for the H series... They perform very poorly, in fact your factory intake gutted and ported with a few spacers will out perform a skunk2 manifold hands down. If your going for top end power this is the best bang for your buck. If you want more mid range power go get a Euro-R intake manifold.

thirsk66

iTrader: (2)

I thought those butterflies actuated with vacuum activated by a valve, which is triggered electronically by the ecu? I could be wrong though. As for when they open on the h22a1 should be at 4600 rpms.