meanshyguy

Today it's a sad day, after 800 miles during break in period this is what my spark plugs look like:


The car is currently using about a quart of oil per every 200 miles at least. The mechanic who assembled everything said it's because the car overheated a couple of times. It did, but the temp gauge went back to normal right away, plus I was at a red light, what was I supposed to do. Now I'm being blamed for not bleeding the coolant propperly. This just happened two or three times, but the tem gauge went back to normal once the fan turned on. CR is about 11:6.1, I got Crower stage two cams, ported and polished head, basically a strong build. The picture above shows the spark plug with that brown grease, don't think it's rust, they also had some oil around the burned part, I cleaned them. What do you all think? Maybe I didn't follow the correct break in process?

PirateMcFred

The grease on the SP is anti-sieze, not rust. A quart per 200 miles is too much. The plugs look alright to me but if they were new 800 miles ago then it looks like there's a lot of ash on them. Probably from your oil comsumption issue.

I'd do a leak down test and see what's wrong. Is your engine smoking a lot at a particular throttle position?

meanshyguy

Id does not smoke, just a little kind of gray smoke when I floor it, but that's not too often. I put anti-seize before I installed them, excuxe me if I didn't specify. I just think it's not possible that the engine could've gone bad by a little overheating issue that didn't even last a minute, that happened about three times but for a couple of seconds. He's telling me that the cylinders collapsed because of the heat and caused the pistons to rub agains the cylinder walls, but he's not sure. I'm using Valvoline 10w40 at the moment. Remember CR is kind of high so I don't know if I should use thicker oil.

toomspeed

Now did the car over heat after the build? If its on you for not bleading the coolant, i take it you had to add sum right? did you install it or have a shop? but yes do a leak down test, that will tell you if you get to have fun all over again.

117

CR has nothing to do with the oil being used.

What are you using for engine management? Who did the tuning? How long was it driven and/or run without being properly tuned?

Like PirateMcFred suggested, do a leak down and compression tests then report back with the numbers.

The oil has to be going somewhere. If you're not burning it, are you leaking it?

What kind of pistons were used? What kind of rings? How was the block prepared (boring and honing, etc)?

Keep in mind that a leak down and compression test won't tell you the condition of the oil control rings, but will give you an idea of the overall health of the engine.

meanshyguy

I don't have it tuned right now, I'm still using the P14 from my H23, I had bought a P28 mapped with H22 but it ended up being a piece of junk and the car wouldn't idle for one munute so we installed the P14 and idles perfect. I wanted to have it like this while I break it in and get a Hondata s300 with a P28 afterwards.
There was oil on the lower part of the spark plugs too.
I'll do the compression test tomorrow, I bought the gauge last month and haven't used it. I
Rings and are Nippon, brand new, just as the pistons, they're type S, the block was hot tanked and rehoned according to factory specs. I didn't rebuild it, I hired a mechanic to build it here at my house, he's fast and seems to have a lot of experience. Everything was well planned and assembled perfectly, I even have a Helms manual that he used, I honestly feel like **** right now, but I'm not giving up!!

117

So you've been driving your car for 800 miles on an OEM ECU with an engine that has a static compression much higher than OEM, aftermarket cams that have radically different specs from OEM, and a ported head???

Have you at least put a WBO2 on it to see what the air/fuel ratio looks like?

I think the OEM P14 ECU is the root cause of your problems. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't think so. That engine is so radically different from an OEM engine that it really should have been tuned properly on a dyno before anything else was done. Starting the engine up to ensure there are no leaks and everything is good-to-go prior to having it tuned is prudent, but driving the car with an OEM ECU to break in the engine is likely a huge mistake.

meanshyguy

I'm not reving the crap out of it, the cams were degreed, I really didn't know using an oem ecu would be really bad but you make sense. I'll get those compression numbers asap, hopefully tomorrow. What could be the worst case scenario due to this?

mgags7

Ehh well it could range from being totally lean and burning a valve to being way rich and washing out the rings.

It doesn't matter if you're revving high or not, sustaining an improper AF ratio for any amount of time is a bad idea. You have to tune at least the part throttle portion of things to drive around while breaking it in....

vtec fan

I am surprised you did not hurt the motor more, after a bone head move like that ( driving the car wit a oem ecu) if motor builder was so knowledgeable how come, he did not tell you that was not a good idea. and if he was not there when you were about to run an oem ecu, did you at least ask him, its people like you that keep auto repair shops in business,lol

98vtec

white + black = gray

your plugs look like they have oil deposits and coolant.

Pull all the plugs. Do they all look the same? take a picture of all of them and tell us which cylinder goes to each plug. And get rid of those damn iridiums and get some zfr7f-11 plugs. 1.99 a pop.

9.8:1 (h23) vs 11.6:1

What is your distributor timing set at?

what injectors are you using?

240cc IIRC (h23) vs bigger for your current engine on a 240cc calibrated ecu.

are the crower cams stock primaries or modified primaries?

what were the rings gapped to?
piston to wall?
main and rod clearance?

what was rebuilt in the head? valve seals? guides?

meanshyguy

All the plugs look exactly the same, with some oil on them. He degreed the cams -2, I don't know much about clearances since he's the one that built the engine, I just got the parts and payed him.
The crower cams are stage 2 unmodified.
Head was rebuild with crower springs and retainers, ferrea valve seals and valve guides.
Fuel injectors are from a 97 H22, remember it's an H23vtec, or was, lol, damn I can't believe what's happening. I'm doing a compression test today, do you think I'm fawked or could things get better if I stop driving the car and get the car tuned propperly?
The mechanic is sure the oil consumption is a consequense of the overheating issues I had but the car didn't even overheated for a long time, not even a munute and happened like 3 or 4 times. now he's blaming me for not bleeding the coolant right.

dagle

iTrader: (1)

because overheating causes blown head gaskets or leaking headgaskets.. which make oil and coolant mix? c'mon now

toomspeed

ok, i work at a auto shop, yes stop driving the car right now is the best thing you can do. next you need to run a leak down test, not a compressing test, there is a diffrance. it looks like you do have a oil and coolant issue with your plugs. from what i have seen, when a honda over heats it has issues with holding a good valve lash. with the stock ecu you may have run lean to burn a piston or a valve, for your sake lets hope for a head gasket. when i dropped my turbo the hodata ecu wouldnt idle for ****. i had the same issue and had to 2 foot a stick to get it to the tuner.

meanshyguy

How do you do a leak down test and what does it do, I've heard about it but never paid much attention. I was waiting for my brother to come over to help me with the compression test but it looks like he's not gonna make it. So how do you do that leak down test? Guys, I really appreciate your time and comments, it has saved me a lot of time and money during the years, now I have to deal with my mistakes and hopefully get this project running right.

mgags7

You'll need an air compressor to do a leakdown test, there are plenty of good resources out there on how to do it. Basically you just blow air in cylinder and figure out if you've got a ton coming out of either the exhaust, intake, or coolant system. It helps to isolate a problem without having to pull the head.

You'll just need the compression tester attachment that screws into the spark plug hole and an air compressor.

meanshyguy

I got all of that, maybe not the attachment but where exaclty do I look when pushing the air into the cylinders?

toomspeed

you will want to remove the valve cover, make sure the cams are turned so the valves are closed. with the compresson tester, install it in the spark plug hole, remove the shreader valve, ( it is very important not to loose this cause it is not the same as a tire valve core) and shoot air into the cylinder. make sure the radiator cap is loose, but on. so your not wearing coolant right after you start this. check every cylinder, it is possable to hook the air line strait to the tester, make sure you have a on/off valve for the air line, and dont over pressurize the cylinder.

meanshyguy

In order to close the valves I just turn the crank pulley right?

98vtec

cyl 1 tdc

117

...on the compression stroke.

toomspeed

just make sure all of the cam lobes are 180 from the valve

117

You better make sure the piston is at TDC. If not, it's going to turn the crank.

mgags7

Yeah good points here. I'd regulate it to about 90psi, that should be plenty. All you need to do is feel where the air is coming out from, pop the pcv out, feel there; feel over the open throttle body; feel over the exhaust; and feel over the rad. cap.

meanshyguy

I'm going to sears today shopping for a new compressor, the one I have here is "home made" you guys should see it, lol. Thanks for the instructions, at least I won't have to pay anybody to do simple tests like that.
Woudn't the valves be open on cyl #1 at TDC?