Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
02-21-2011, 09:49 PM
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
Do you still not realize that 98vtec/Blake Barr/Q16 racer are the SAME person??
The chamber work is very easy, it helps to have a cnc but I've also done it by hand several times, others on here have done it with a manual mill and boring bar. All you need to do by machine is the counterbore, the rest of the chamber is easier to just do by hand. I really dont think you would of had any clearance problems if you had been using any other piston besides the Mahles but good job for checking clearances.
K24 crank is doable, but if you dont have a lathe sitting in your garage like I do its going to cost you a pretty penny. I went the custom rod/custom piston route with an 89mm piston. Target compression will be 14.5-15:1 The crank needs an oil pump drive added and then you have to figure out a way to mount the timing gear and pulley on that short crank snout. I chose to make my own crank timing gear in the form of a hub that I could mount a pulley to. Most people arent going to go to this much trouble, and I certainly wouldnt if I was having to pay someone to do this.
As far as the H22 vs H23 pistons go, I never said that they had the same compression height. In fact I've made several threads and even detail it out on my website that the H22 piston is taller by half a millimeter or roughly .02" Yes of course when you use an H22 piston with an H23 crank and rods the piston will stick out of the block .02", thats perfectly normal for this setup and is shown in the pictures you, Blake, and I have posted. In stock (stock pistons) form this is perfectly fine. With most aftermarket pistons this is perfectly fine. It only becomes a problem if you go too much more than that out of the block or go with larger than stock pistons. Then you will need to modify the chambers and or run a thicker head gasket. Since your pistons are basically still stock size I wouldnt expect that you would have problems, but obviously you saw the issue and Mahle is one of the pistons that I have not ever ran in a setup so I cannot comment on those.
I dont have a problem with you questioning what I say, but please do it in a civil manner. Theres no need to call bs on me and say that what I do isnt possible and wont work. I love what I do and I love helping people any chance I get, but to be blunt its people like you who ruin that for me and truthfully thats why alot of guys have left this site. I know its a big reason why I dont post here near as much as I used to. This used to be such a great place to come and share ideas and learn new things. I remember all the discussions that occured in threads in here that would go on for months and collectively the whole group would benefit from them. Sadly you just dont see that sort of thing here anymore.
The chamber work is very easy, it helps to have a cnc but I've also done it by hand several times, others on here have done it with a manual mill and boring bar. All you need to do by machine is the counterbore, the rest of the chamber is easier to just do by hand. I really dont think you would of had any clearance problems if you had been using any other piston besides the Mahles but good job for checking clearances.
K24 crank is doable, but if you dont have a lathe sitting in your garage like I do its going to cost you a pretty penny. I went the custom rod/custom piston route with an 89mm piston. Target compression will be 14.5-15:1 The crank needs an oil pump drive added and then you have to figure out a way to mount the timing gear and pulley on that short crank snout. I chose to make my own crank timing gear in the form of a hub that I could mount a pulley to. Most people arent going to go to this much trouble, and I certainly wouldnt if I was having to pay someone to do this.
As far as the H22 vs H23 pistons go, I never said that they had the same compression height. In fact I've made several threads and even detail it out on my website that the H22 piston is taller by half a millimeter or roughly .02" Yes of course when you use an H22 piston with an H23 crank and rods the piston will stick out of the block .02", thats perfectly normal for this setup and is shown in the pictures you, Blake, and I have posted. In stock (stock pistons) form this is perfectly fine. With most aftermarket pistons this is perfectly fine. It only becomes a problem if you go too much more than that out of the block or go with larger than stock pistons. Then you will need to modify the chambers and or run a thicker head gasket. Since your pistons are basically still stock size I wouldnt expect that you would have problems, but obviously you saw the issue and Mahle is one of the pistons that I have not ever ran in a setup so I cannot comment on those.
I dont have a problem with you questioning what I say, but please do it in a civil manner. Theres no need to call bs on me and say that what I do isnt possible and wont work. I love what I do and I love helping people any chance I get, but to be blunt its people like you who ruin that for me and truthfully thats why alot of guys have left this site. I know its a big reason why I dont post here near as much as I used to. This used to be such a great place to come and share ideas and learn new things. I remember all the discussions that occured in threads in here that would go on for months and collectively the whole group would benefit from them. Sadly you just dont see that sort of thing here anymore.
02-22-2011, 10:41 AM
#27
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
Do you still not realize that 98vtec/Blake Barr/Q16 racer are the SAME person??
The chamber work is very easy, it helps to have a cnc but I've also done it by hand several times, others on here have done it with a manual mill and boring bar. All you need to do by machine is the counterbore, the rest of the chamber is easier to just do by hand. I really dont think you would of had any clearance problems if you had been using any other piston besides the Mahles but good job for checking clearances.
K24 crank is doable, but if you dont have a lathe sitting in your garage like I do its going to cost you a pretty penny. I went the custom rod/custom piston route with an 89mm piston. Target compression will be 14.5-15:1 The crank needs an oil pump drive added and then you have to figure out a way to mount the timing gear and pulley on that short crank snout. I chose to make my own crank timing gear in the form of a hub that I could mount a pulley to. Most people arent going to go to this much trouble, and I certainly wouldnt if I was having to pay someone to do this.
As far as the H22 vs H23 pistons go, I never said that they had the same compression height. In fact I've made several threads and even detail it out on my website that the H22 piston is taller by half a millimeter or roughly .02" Yes of course when you use an H22 piston with an H23 crank and rods the piston will stick out of the block .02", thats perfectly normal for this setup and is shown in the pictures you, Blake, and I have posted. In stock (stock pistons) form this is perfectly fine. With most aftermarket pistons this is perfectly fine. It only becomes a problem if you go too much more than that out of the block or go with larger than stock pistons. Then you will need to modify the chambers and or run a thicker head gasket. Since your pistons are basically still stock size I wouldnt expect that you would have problems, but obviously you saw the issue and Mahle is one of the pistons that I have not ever ran in a setup so I cannot comment on those.
I dont have a problem with you questioning what I say, but please do it in a civil manner. Theres no need to call bs on me and say that what I do isnt possible and wont work. I love what I do and I love helping people any chance I get, but to be blunt its people like you who ruin that for me and truthfully thats why alot of guys have left this site. I know its a big reason why I dont post here near as much as I used to. This used to be such a great place to come and share ideas and learn new things. I remember all the discussions that occured in threads in here that would go on for months and collectively the whole group would benefit from them. Sadly you just dont see that sort of thing here anymore.
The chamber work is very easy, it helps to have a cnc but I've also done it by hand several times, others on here have done it with a manual mill and boring bar. All you need to do by machine is the counterbore, the rest of the chamber is easier to just do by hand. I really dont think you would of had any clearance problems if you had been using any other piston besides the Mahles but good job for checking clearances.
K24 crank is doable, but if you dont have a lathe sitting in your garage like I do its going to cost you a pretty penny. I went the custom rod/custom piston route with an 89mm piston. Target compression will be 14.5-15:1 The crank needs an oil pump drive added and then you have to figure out a way to mount the timing gear and pulley on that short crank snout. I chose to make my own crank timing gear in the form of a hub that I could mount a pulley to. Most people arent going to go to this much trouble, and I certainly wouldnt if I was having to pay someone to do this.
As far as the H22 vs H23 pistons go, I never said that they had the same compression height. In fact I've made several threads and even detail it out on my website that the H22 piston is taller by half a millimeter or roughly .02" Yes of course when you use an H22 piston with an H23 crank and rods the piston will stick out of the block .02", thats perfectly normal for this setup and is shown in the pictures you, Blake, and I have posted. In stock (stock pistons) form this is perfectly fine. With most aftermarket pistons this is perfectly fine. It only becomes a problem if you go too much more than that out of the block or go with larger than stock pistons. Then you will need to modify the chambers and or run a thicker head gasket. Since your pistons are basically still stock size I wouldnt expect that you would have problems, but obviously you saw the issue and Mahle is one of the pistons that I have not ever ran in a setup so I cannot comment on those.
I dont have a problem with you questioning what I say, but please do it in a civil manner. Theres no need to call bs on me and say that what I do isnt possible and wont work. I love what I do and I love helping people any chance I get, but to be blunt its people like you who ruin that for me and truthfully thats why alot of guys have left this site. I know its a big reason why I dont post here near as much as I used to. This used to be such a great place to come and share ideas and learn new things. I remember all the discussions that occured in threads in here that would go on for months and collectively the whole group would benefit from them. Sadly you just dont see that sort of thing here anymore.
02-22-2011, 05:33 PM
#28
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
Well i have to admit i do feel like a big jackass at this point. I realize know who i am dealing with. I left this site i think in 2007 when blake was i think a moderator at the time. He knows wtf he is doing. I knew him as 98vtec and we shared some great ideas. Blake if you are reading this you probably remember how i used to try to save this forum from dude named acidcrakker. I dont know if he posts know or not, but at the time he was so ruby new that he just gave misinformation. i eventually stopped posting as well shortly after...
So to you rosko i sincerely apologize for calling your **** bs. You are impressing me, and trust me not many techs, engineers, or machinists have ever done that. **** i had to tell the machinist exactly what pressure, stone. the degree, and the proper RA. you know like i do, a machinist gets a little nerved out around the old frm sleeve and he was afraid of bunching. it took me awhile to figure out the pressure to use. i probably could have just asked you guys lol. i couldnt get an answer form mahle. I feel sheepish in the fact that i too came off as a general forum ***** who calls people out and and is belligerent. 98vtec, blake, whatever your alias is i apologize as well. i know you are capable, you are a great tuner as well i remember. I made a mistake and i am man enough to admit failures, as well as successes. hope we can move on.
I think we all could probably banter some wildly stupid ideas, and even possibly breathe a buit of technical life into this forum as well.
you see how my mind works, k24, shorter stub, etc, and i figured out the oil pump situation... it is slightly different than your set up. but yours would work perfectly as well.
i just needed more length and at that time i had a wife, baby, new house, and was hustling just to get something built for less than 2000g canadian i didnt have the time to invest into figuring out the way to do it or pay someone else to figure it out, which i would never do anyways lol.
So to you rosko i sincerely apologize for calling your **** bs. You are impressing me, and trust me not many techs, engineers, or machinists have ever done that. **** i had to tell the machinist exactly what pressure, stone. the degree, and the proper RA. you know like i do, a machinist gets a little nerved out around the old frm sleeve and he was afraid of bunching. it took me awhile to figure out the pressure to use. i probably could have just asked you guys lol. i couldnt get an answer form mahle. I feel sheepish in the fact that i too came off as a general forum ***** who calls people out and and is belligerent. 98vtec, blake, whatever your alias is i apologize as well. i know you are capable, you are a great tuner as well i remember. I made a mistake and i am man enough to admit failures, as well as successes. hope we can move on.
I think we all could probably banter some wildly stupid ideas, and even possibly breathe a buit of technical life into this forum as well.
you see how my mind works, k24, shorter stub, etc, and i figured out the oil pump situation... it is slightly different than your set up. but yours would work perfectly as well.
i just needed more length and at that time i had a wife, baby, new house, and was hustling just to get something built for less than 2000g canadian i didnt have the time to invest into figuring out the way to do it or pay someone else to figure it out, which i would never do anyways lol.
02-22-2011, 05:52 PM
#29
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
and you are right in saying the reccesses are a bit different than stock. it was a generally bitch to figure it out. i mean at full lift the valve drops so far into the bore. have you ever figured out the math on valve vs. piston locations. i wish i had a scanner you would love this **** dude im telling you lol. its a wild equation... i can basically telly you at any point given known cam lobe height, gross lift, cylinder length/swept stroke, compression heights etc at any given point at any degree. that is how i knew it was stupid close on the exhaust reccess just before tdc.. too close to risk the milk money at the time. since then i have improvised the design. the k24 crank will never happen for me... too much involved and ive done almost all of what i set out to do with the h block already. i am building only one more, and i am waiting until **** is settled with the second one. hondata, custom tubular set up. liquid intercooler/bosch pump, all underhood, and i have had it plumbed in. i need to get back at the numbers and measure the volume of my custom intake because i honed it out more than was neccessary for anything NA. and we both know im sure the intake manifold is way too large for the h22 engine by what most builders agree on for size of intake manifold volume versus cylinder size. but boosted it should be just insane.]
I am excited at this poinnt to know that i am dealing with people who really know wtf they are doing, and are doing the same **** i am. where i am i am the guru, the guy, where you guys are form is probably much similar as well. hope we can move on and toss ideas around. i will not doubt your knowledge again, i know you are both legit..... Jesse
I am excited at this poinnt to know that i am dealing with people who really know wtf they are doing, and are doing the same **** i am. where i am i am the guru, the guy, where you guys are form is probably much similar as well. hope we can move on and toss ideas around. i will not doubt your knowledge again, i know you are both legit..... Jesse
02-22-2011, 06:32 PM
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
i dont think i am even able to count on one hand the amount of people who have actually apologized for being outlandish ********.
+1 and good luck.
what is the volume of the intake you built? How long are the runners? how large is the TB opening?
The volume of my intake manifold is just under 3L (so says my fabricator, have yet to actually measure it) for my 90x95 / 14:1 / pro3 / 90mm TB / 1.88" stepped to 2" header.
it made 325/225 at the crank (with 68mm TB and a header designed for a street stock motor) and power flatlined from 7500-8500 but never dropped off. Being that it was choked by the header/TB and we ran it relatively rich based on the plugs, i'd say the size definitely was not too much.
+1 and good luck.
what is the volume of the intake you built? How long are the runners? how large is the TB opening?
The volume of my intake manifold is just under 3L (so says my fabricator, have yet to actually measure it) for my 90x95 / 14:1 / pro3 / 90mm TB / 1.88" stepped to 2" header.
it made 325/225 at the crank (with 68mm TB and a header designed for a street stock motor) and power flatlined from 7500-8500 but never dropped off. Being that it was choked by the header/TB and we ran it relatively rich based on the plugs, i'd say the size definitely was not too much.
02-22-2011, 06:38 PM
#31
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
with that bore it may not be too much, but i beleive most v8 (yes i uttered the dreaded v word lol) say to acheive best volumetric efficiency it is supposed to be ( and i am going off my head here) 75% of total diplacement. This is only what i heard and read, i am not sure, never tried to acheive the math. I never figured out the exact measurement of lower intake i made tbh, and it isnt a completelyt custom intake it is a modified stock intake. i honed it out approxiamately 2mm diameter, never capped it and filled it with fluid though. i built this for a cheap boosted build becaue someone said i couldnt build 400hp for less than 4 gs, so far they are right, but i took a year off for ahem other reasons lol. (i have a pic on my profile of the set up, not the best looking but is equal length manifold ihi rbh5 turbo, too small for anything past 5000rpms, based on flow characteristics. I honed it out until the casting lines where gone, bevelled the edge from 1/2" and port matched it to the head, with which i did the same sort of operation. i wish i had pictures of the ports in the head. but it was cold, and only my buddy really cared so he has always been the person who knows its not a fish story per say lmao. mirror finish. maybe too much really but the build was for boost to begiun with so mirror is best. the tb for the final set up in may or june has yet to be determined. i figured the plenum is so easy to get off, i can do the math at the time and modify it at that time. i have a 4 year old son and an ex wife. time has been a shortfall for the past bit lol. i need to find my old paperwork for the build it is in a box in my hidden shop in the country lol.
Last edited by REDLUDE4WS; 02-22-2011 at 07:20 PM.
02-22-2011, 07:01 PM
#32
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
to be quite honest i dont really have any known number as far as hp is concerned either. i have never dynoed it. i have tuned it crude with v2, wideband, and some high speed illegal **** near side country hideout lol. it rips is all i care until i get the setup finsihed. now that i have that foreman job the extra can pay for what i need for this engine. the winter car needs 20s. the skyline never moves because i hate driving it lol but i like having it. rhd isnt only good in short runs imho. annoying and dangerous but i love it. i am just like you both i work for my toys big time. im just a guy who likes cars, women, call of duty, and the occasional buzz. But i love to expand on my horizons and it possible i have found the forum to expand on. very impressive set up. im going to blow up these mahles wthin time and by thensleeved jdm h23(big main), h22a1 head, s2turbo2s, large bore pistons.. it is possible at this point that i wont be able to rest with this new info. like i said i dont have the paperwork, i was just bored when i posted the original post, and ran with it. but i know with what i have it wouldve hit with stock gasket on exhaust side. unless i shaved the reccess and no thanks. i may need to start on this soon it already bugging me lmfao! im back tgo disliking you both again, this is more work bahahaha jk jk jk truce truce!!!!
10-28-2012, 03:09 PM
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Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
okay so what would the compression be if using h23 crank, rods and H22 Type S pistons with .051" gasket? any valve clearance issues?
10-29-2012, 06:23 AM
#34
Re: Has anyone eve used h22 pistons, with h23 rods, and crank???
Go find the Zeal compression calculator and start inputting numbers! As far as the clearances, you will have to clay it to make sure, but unless you are running some monster cams that I don't know about, you should be ok.
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crazykid
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