Rubybravo87

so I have this stock low milage H23A Bluetop vtec aging around, since it comes normally with a low compression ratio (automatic version) with low rev. and speaking with a budget build, what if I throw a cheap...

$500 Kim's engineering valvetrain package
$475 Brain crowder cams stage 2 turbo
$775 cheap ebay turbo package or $1000 speed daddy turbo kit (ebay)

alternative $1100 BC valvetrain stage 2 package,, with no block gaurd $100

what are your opinions?

snobordboy

If you want to turbo a stock motor, don't worry about valvetrain or cams, spend the money on a good tuning solution, ie hondata, or neptune. The tune is what will keep the motor safe. That and I would just research and buy parts to build a kit, and a turbo that will last. The chinese turbos in those kits are hit or miss, some last ages, some blow up the first time you start the engine.

AznBlueBoy

H23a vtec blue top comes with 10.6:1 compression. Not low at all and revs just as high as an h22 once you have a proper tuning system.

Cheap out if you want to rebuild the motor and everything else.

Rubybravo87

dam right those cheap ebay kits are kinda risky. I don't know swat $@&T when it comes to tuning computers, but I can rebuild a engine and transmission, thanks to wyotech. do yau'll know any high performance/tuning book or resources I can get my nose into?

AznBlueBoy

My best advice would be to bring it to a reputable tuner. It doesn't cost much to tune. A lot of the places have flat rates for tuning.
A simple turbo setup can be tuned in a few hours.
Better then mucking around with it for a long time and eventually blowing something up or saying the dyno #'s are low and track times are slow because it was a conservative tune.
That's a bunch of BS that people say when the tuner sucks ***.

1funryd

Tuning is something that must be learned by trail and error, but with good tuning shops around, I would recommend getting to know some and train with them or work with them.

The best tuners have many years of experience.

Bouckaroo

Get the book "Maximum Boost" and read it, it will help you understand "tuning". Also, im sure the h23vtecs come with a 10.2 compression ratio as they are the same pistons as the usdm h22a4. The PDE version of the h23vtec may come with higher comrpession than the 10.2:1 p13 counter part, i beleive the pde ones are 10.6:1

I would highly recomend the AEM sereis 2 for tuning.

Sparksman

The title of this thread says "blue-top" so he's only referring to the PDE 10.6:1 version. H23A1's never came with a "blue top", nor vtec.

H23A1 pistons are NOT the same as H22A4 pistons. The piston wrist pin location is different. So if you swapped H22A4 pistons in a stock H23A1 you would in fact raise the compression and the piston would stick .020" out the top.

Even the 10.6:1 pistons on the PDE version are physicaly different from the other 10.6:1 pistons. Also the rods on the H23A are .020" shorter then the H23A1.

Sparksman

As for tuning program go Demon RTP w/ Neptune programming, mines in the mail right now! I also intend on running the H23AV, it will rev higher with better balancing. Also its the stroke/throw that determines how high you can rev and not fall apart. Its just physics regardless of the tune.

Bouckaroo

I was talking about the VTEC Blue topped H23A, WITHOUT a numerical designation after engien code. I was not nor never did refer to the h23a1.

There are two version of H23VTEC BLUE TOP, one is teh PDE variant and the other is a p13. I have the p13 one. The pde have higher compression than the other ones, by how much im not sure but i do know wheni tore my h23vtec apart, the pistons looked like they had smalled dome height than the JDM h22a(whcih is 10.6:1 compression). The domes of the pistons looked the same as the h22A4, and had the same stamp on the top of them as the h22a4. I have all sorts of pics on PP of the piston tops if you would care to check, i did not remove the pistons and check the rod pin location as the compression test was very good so it jsut got head work.

Sparksman

Wasnt trying to call you out or anything. I knew some of the first years came with the P13 head, they phased the p13 out in the late 90's and started putting PDE heads. Alot of USDM h22A4's came with a PDE head. As for pistons all H23AV's should be 10.6:1 comp ratio. I know the pistons for the H23aV are different then any other H series piston, I had rosko confirm this for me, along with the rod lengths.

Bouckaroo

Yes the change was made in late 1999-2000 models. Im not sure the exact comprssion on that motor, although i know for certian its higher than the p13 one.

Sparksman

hmm... I thought the P13 and the PDE heads where the same chamber size. I know the H23A1 head has a smaller chamber, thats why when you put the bigger chambered vtec head on one its more approx 9.6:1 vs the original 9.8:1.

If thats the same case for the H23AV between the p13 and the PDE head. That makes sense of the lower compression with the P13 as your saying.

We just need to find out the difference in cc's between the two heads. Im quite sure short blocks are exactly the same.

Apex1972

glad I have the PDE version which is also rumored to have a factory ported head similar to the type s but without the cams and valvetrain to go with it. someone please correct me if I am wrong about this. I hate to spread misinformation but I have seen a thread somewhere with pics of both heads intake and exhaust ports and in that thread,you could tell one was ported and it was the PDE version.
heres the thread,cant believe I found it.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...7390&styleid=2

Sparksman

I believe the PDE version is ported and polished like the Type-S. There are two different versions of the PDE head. 2-pin IACV heads for most cars, and the 3-pin IACV heads for the euro-r and the SIR h23V.

If the type-S is a 3 pin PDE theres more reason to believe so. I cant seem to find it right now. Type S uses a P5P ecu if anyone else can find out if its a 3 or 2 pin IACV?

I will be ordering my engine in the next month or so, and have a euro-r manifold. I can measure both of them and let everyone know.

Rubybravo87

I have the PDE version also the p13-2 says on the head, but it says PDE, I think I read before that the head had a bigger chamber, not sure, I also have the automatic version that said to believe to rev only to 6200rpm, the manual version was suppost to be 6800rpm. that's why I ask for a cam and valvetrain opinions to get tips to get this engine revving higher. Kim's engineering sells a cheap kit with a block gaurd that can hold 20 psi. not sure if that's 14.7 atmosphere pressure included in that number or the boost you can apply to it. I'm still wondering though to slap in a turbo and beat that bottom end.

Rubybravo87

but if I'm doing that I minus well swap the connecting rods n pistons that handle performance.

Sparksman

the stock h23aV will do 8000 rpm no problem, that still not a high reving engine. These serious drag guys rev like 11,000 rpm's. They also are sleeved and forged internals, so thats what you need if you want serious power. You cant run more then around 12psi of boost on stock internals, pending on comp ratio anyhow. With stock bottom end you wont really see much over 300whp give or take being boosted.

forged rods are in the $5-600 range. H series are FMR lined cylinders so they wont work with forged pistons unless you sleeve first. Thats about $800-$1000, then add another $5-600 for the forged pistons, then another $200 or so for bearings,rings,seals ect. Then you can start worrying about which turbo cams you want to run, if you have any money left lol.

If your boosting maybe upgrade springs, and get a valve job, and maybe a port and polish. Then leave the head alone and build the bottom end.

1funryd

Stock H22 heads can easily handle 700hp there is no need to upgrade anything on the head at all if you are making that kind of hp.

We have two local guys in WA state that make 610-700whp between the both of them that make those numbers with stock heads.

Just build your bottom end if you are wanting to go forged internals.

Sparksman

I never said he HAD to upgrade, I just suggested some things I thought would benefit him the most. If he wants to put money into the head its his choice.

A valve job is always good regardless, and a port and polish does help F/I. Only other thing I suggested was valve springs. Which isnt actually the worst thing in the world, it would help prevent against floating at high rpms.

1funryd

Rebuilding the head with new parts is always a smart thing to do when building for turbo period.

Just put most the money in the block.

overthespeed100

whats up im building a h23a jdm blue top for turbo when i order parts for it like pistons n rods cames n all what usdm motor a could use for part numbers need help thanks

overthespeed100

whats up maybe u can help me a bit thanks for your time i have a h23a jdm blue top can i use aftermarket parts just like the h22a4 can i use that motor as for part numbers

Sparksman

You can use the h22a4 as you usdm parts store reference engine. Its the closest thing we had to it in the states. Once you learn enough you will start to see there all the same thing just slight variants here and there.

Pretty much any parts you buy should fit both the h23V and a h22a4 "non-SH".

Ive gone to part stores and asked for parts for the H22a1 and the H22A4 at the same time. The guy at the parts store tried warning me not to because they are different... Dont trust most people at the counters, they dont know half of what they should.

overthespeed100

thanks sparksman i no i try to oder arp bolts for my h23v using the h22a4 and the parts was telling it wont work so its true what u say he told me to take out a head bolt so he can match it up also im trying to get like crankshaft main cap bolts to