serjey15

Ok guys so I have been discussing this on HT for a while.
I replaced my timing belt and it was a pain in the butt replacing because of the tensioner.
Then I got it set was happy, drove for like one and a half weeks.
Then I was driving in 4th gear and it started bogging, then I put into 3rd, still bogging, then it ranomly died and I couldnt get it started.
I pull over and when you cranking I hear a ticking sound internally.
Cams jumped 5 teeth off.
So Im 95% sure I beant some valves.
I know I will have to replace them so gotta get over that.
I dont know where to buy a tensioner though.
The auto tensioner looks like a mini slave cylinder.
But when I look online it just comes up with some bearing or something,
Can someone give me a link to where to buy one and can you give me a good place to buy valves?
Thanks.
Also I have a h23 block.
I heard you can swap the tensioner.
If I have every part for the manual tensioner can I just unbolt it, and bolt it onto the h22?

minilogoguy18

Did you replace the tensioner with the updated one or was it the original tensioner?

serjey15

I didnt know the schuduled time until today. last owner didnt take care of it. it has 136k on it. So I checked compression and its good.
So Im gonna switch to manual tension.

ml21

Did you reuse the old tensioner when you replaced the timing belt or you got a new one?

D50boy

What's the story on the updated and manual tensioners? A friend of mine described the same thing happening to his car over thanksgiving. I havent had a chance to look at the car, but I'd like to hear about this.

serjey15

Yes. .
I didnt know it was one of those thing you had to replace until I did some research and found out what a stupid thing this auto tensioner is.
So Here is the story, I took off the tensioner and it seemed fine.
So I put it back on set timing belt (Just to check the compression)
I check it.
1:220psi
2:220psi
3:210psi
4:200psi

So this is fine, because if the valves are bent it would have zero compression.
But Now I DO NOT want to put the auto tensioner back on.
If there were things I hate in this world it would be the auto tensioner.
My bro has a h23 block with the manual tensioner.
Can I just swap it and that it?

ml21

Yea the tensioner should swap over with no issues but just to make sure there is a post on here that shows it in full detail if you search it but mine worked fine off my old h23

serjey15

Nice thanks man.
I just am in shock, why would honda use such a gay tensioner on the high performance engine??
But I saw the thread where he shows the conversion.
He said something about a washer.
Do I keep the h22 washer?

minilogoguy18

You use all H23 parts, the only washer you can reuse is the one that acts as a spacer between the 2 pullies but it's not recommended because you have to use other washers to make it work. The tensioner isn't bad, it's just the one that came on the motor from the factory isn't meant to be used more than once, they came out with a revised one though that can be used over and over.

serjey15

OK.
and what do you mean by its not recomended because you have to use other washer to make it work?
Can I just swap the tensioner over 100%?

Acidcrakker

Your compression numbers are pretty bad. Each cylinder should be about 5 percent with in each other. So 220 and 200 compression difference is about 10 percent difference.

sde780

10% isn't bad, I always thought they were supposed to be within 10% of each other

serjey15

When My brother first bought the car it had 210psi accross the board.
My valve cover is off.
So every Time a crank a little oil gets into the cylinder making more compression.
If valves were bent it would be 0psi.
Long story short, I got the h23 manual tensioner on and put timing belt on.
I started it for a couple seconds, runs good with no ticks, or taps or knocks.
Im gonna put Balance belt on later today and it should be good.
Thanks for all the info guys I wouldnt be able to do it without the help

turbociv910

Got lucky!

DCFIVER

Incorrect. Acceptable variations of up to 20%-25% are perfectly acceptable. His numbers are fine.

Acidcrakker

Wtf. R u serious.

Im calling bullshit.

I could understand 10 percent, I like 5 percent variation.

25 percent means something is wrong.

As long as all cylinders are equal its fine.

If you had 160 in each cylinder you are fine. If you have 220 in 3 cylinders and 175 in one cylinder, **** is ****ed up, or will be very soon.

Phoenix1

iTrader: (1)

Based on what? Have you checked the service manual?

Acidcrakker

Based on common sense. I checked out the service manual real quick and did not run into anything.

Think about it 140psi in a cylinder is bad. Anything below that is bad. Typically a healthy engine will function with-in 10 percent of each cylinder. I always confuse the 10 percent with 10 psi.

So If you have an engine with 225 in three cylinders and cylinder 4 has a compression of 160 which is about 25 percent difference, there is an issue somewhere.

Could be rings going out, valve not seated correctly. There is no real reason why 1 cylinder should be way off like that.

Now you can run it like that all you want. But that much compression loss in one cylinder is an indication that something is not working right. Maybe that injector is clogged, (Ive had that happen before which caused one cylinder to have a retarded amount of compression).

To me more than 10 percent difference in the compression means that there is probably an issue that needs to be taken care of.

godslayer

I am looking at the service manual right now.

Page 2-3. First line of the page.

Nominal compression = 1,270kPa (185psi)
Minimum compression = 930kPa (135psi)
Maximum variation = 200kPa (30psi)

30psi/185psi = 16% typical acceptable variation according to Honda engineers.

Just saying...

edit: This is for a 5th gen H22 so YMMV depending on engine application.

Your example of 225psi would theoretically allow for a safe minimum of 189 in any given cylinder.

Acidcrakker

I think the OBD1 engine JDM have different compression numbers.

I found it in my OBD 1 service manual. It says same compression numbers you you said, 185 135 the low, but 28 variances max. Do the math, IDK. Not going to sit here and argue this all day.


I run nitrous so I like to follow my 10 percent thingy. If it drops below 10 percent I will rebuild. Makes sense to me.

I also remember having a simlar discussion with the Honda Acura shop around me, a few years ago about healthy compression as well. And they also agreed that 10 percent is max. ESP if you push your motor to the limit.

I cant argue with the helms. 16 percent is not 25 or 20 percent, but neither it is 10 percent.

AyOhOndA

Yes you can. I took all the pieces needed off of my old h23 and swapped them onto my h22 and have never had a problem with my timing since. Didn't have to buy anything nor mod anything. If you use the DIY on this site it comes out perfect.

And I've wondered why Honda used that terrible tensioner too. When my first one went out, I just bought another Hydraulic one. Then 3 months later it went out again, that's when I did some research and found out how unreliable they are and found the DIY for the manual tensioner swap. Only took me a couple of hours.

DCFIVER

Correct. I meant to say 20-25 psi (not percent) variation is acceptable. Anyhow his numbers are still accpetable.

serjey15

I dont know guys. I dont really care what manual says I think I got a little oil into cylinder one since that is where I was working on my timing belt area.
But my engine runs perfect like it did, so if they are 10% apart it doesnt matter to me. lol

godslayer

Good for you. That statement just cements my thoughts that you'll continue to run your P.O.S. car into the ground and come back here asking for advice that you really don't want.

AyOhOndA

Just cuz it seems to be running fine, doesn't mean it really is. If something is out of spec, eventually something is going to go terribly wrong and as the guy said above me, you'll run it into the ground and end up fixing something major later that could have been prevented.