Distributorless Ignition system.
06-11-2007, 07:56 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: A.T.L., Ga.
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Distributorless Ignition system.
I've seen an H22 with a Distributorless ignition setup on it. That was triggered by the rotation of the crank? Does anyone know how its done or is there a company that makes this system for the Prelude?
06-11-2007, 08:03 PM
#2
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (dk4ever)
I thought I saw a setup for sale on ebay. Distributorless ignition isnt difficult to understand, a magnetic pick-up on the crank sends a signal to the computer. But you need a computer that can take that signal. I don't think Hondata can but I think AEM can.
06-12-2007, 07:51 AM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Further down the spiral, TX, usa
Posts: 10,629
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (mattsnooz)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mattsnooz »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">is that system different than digital ignition distributors?</TD></TR></TABLE>
...hmmmmm....probably not, but I do not know many details on either.
...hmmmmm....probably not, but I do not know many details on either.
06-12-2007, 01:30 PM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: buffalo, ny, 14206
Posts: 183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (dk4ever)
what do u do about your exhaust cam that runs the dizzy then cut the end off and put another rubber piece in there like the intake cam?
Trending Topics
06-12-2007, 05:51 PM
#8
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Burnout Box, IA, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (tmrtwo)
I've done it, and will be running it on my new motor. It gets a little complicated if you don't have a good understanding of how that stuff works.
One setup would be a 60-2 (a 62 toothed wheel with two missing teeth) wheel on the crankshaft, and a one tooth pickup on the camshaft which if you use the aem ems its required (cam sync). Other systems such as electromotive don't require the cam sync pickup, but without it you're losing some adjustability. Even better would be a Hall effect type sensor which user tony1 on here sells the kits for.
My setup originally consisted of the smaller 60-2 wheel from Electomotive and the electomotive sensor as well, which I could never read a steady signal off of. I was advised by an aem engineer to try a Motec sensor with the same setup. The car started with that sensor in place, but the signal would break up at about 3k rpm. I also tried an 8 tooth wheel on the crank rather than the finer 60-2 and got that to work better, but it still broke up at higher rpm's. The camshaft sensor was a small billet enclosure with a stock honda cam sensor inside, that worked great.
My final decision was to run the stock distributor just for the sensors inside (no plug wires) That out of the three worked the best, though it kind of defeats the purpose since the sensor isn't ran directly off the crankshaft. It still got me what I was after as far as being able to run the coilpacks. It also takes an MSD box, either DIS-2 (for wastefire) or DIS-4 for 4-channel indiviodual cylinder trim. I ran the DIS-4, but I still kept it in wastfire as my aem ems is an earlier one and only has three coil drivers. For the coil packs I used the CBR motorcycle coils, they required modifying the valve cover to get them to push onto the plug. The plugs also need to have screw-off tops for the coils to latch onto.
I'll be running the same setup on the new motor, only in place of the distributor I'll have an all billet housing with a cam and crank sensor mounted inside.
One setup would be a 60-2 (a 62 toothed wheel with two missing teeth) wheel on the crankshaft, and a one tooth pickup on the camshaft which if you use the aem ems its required (cam sync). Other systems such as electromotive don't require the cam sync pickup, but without it you're losing some adjustability. Even better would be a Hall effect type sensor which user tony1 on here sells the kits for.
My setup originally consisted of the smaller 60-2 wheel from Electomotive and the electomotive sensor as well, which I could never read a steady signal off of. I was advised by an aem engineer to try a Motec sensor with the same setup. The car started with that sensor in place, but the signal would break up at about 3k rpm. I also tried an 8 tooth wheel on the crank rather than the finer 60-2 and got that to work better, but it still broke up at higher rpm's. The camshaft sensor was a small billet enclosure with a stock honda cam sensor inside, that worked great.
My final decision was to run the stock distributor just for the sensors inside (no plug wires) That out of the three worked the best, though it kind of defeats the purpose since the sensor isn't ran directly off the crankshaft. It still got me what I was after as far as being able to run the coilpacks. It also takes an MSD box, either DIS-2 (for wastefire) or DIS-4 for 4-channel indiviodual cylinder trim. I ran the DIS-4, but I still kept it in wastfire as my aem ems is an earlier one and only has three coil drivers. For the coil packs I used the CBR motorcycle coils, they required modifying the valve cover to get them to push onto the plug. The plugs also need to have screw-off tops for the coils to latch onto.
I'll be running the same setup on the new motor, only in place of the distributor I'll have an all billet housing with a cam and crank sensor mounted inside.
06-13-2007, 05:24 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: State College, pa, us
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (cb7tougeracer)
mines not running off the crank but I'm using the T1 cam trigger kit on my car (sorry no pix at the moment)
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/
06-13-2007, 05:34 AM
#12
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (TurboLude97)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboLude97 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mines not running off the crank but I'm using the T1 cam trigger kit on my car (sorry no pix at the moment)
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/
</TD></TR></TABLE>
is that the one where he puts the magnets into the cam gear and triggers a sensor off that?
http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/
</TD></TR></TABLE>
is that the one where he puts the magnets into the cam gear and triggers a sensor off that?
06-13-2007, 05:35 AM
#13
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Rosko)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">heres a pic of the crank trigger setup...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this looks pretty sweet, how much does a setup like that run? and did you machine that yourself? thanks!
</TD></TR></TABLE>this looks pretty sweet, how much does a setup like that run? and did you machine that yourself? thanks!
06-13-2007, 07:44 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: State College, pa, us
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Eddiebx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eddiebx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
is that the one where he puts the magnets into the cam gear and triggers a sensor off that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah thats the one
is that the one where he puts the magnets into the cam gear and triggers a sensor off that?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah thats the one
06-13-2007, 08:03 AM
#16
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (TurboLude97)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboLude97 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah thats the one</TD></TR></TABLE>
ah cool, would you mind if i asked how much did the cam gear and the sensor run you from tony?
yeah thats the one</TD></TR></TABLE>
ah cool, would you mind if i asked how much did the cam gear and the sensor run you from tony?
06-13-2007, 08:38 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: State College, pa, us
Posts: 727
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Eddiebx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eddiebx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
ah cool, would you mind if i asked how much did the cam gear and the sensor run you from tony?</TD></TR></TABLE>
chech your pm
ah cool, would you mind if i asked how much did the cam gear and the sensor run you from tony?</TD></TR></TABLE>
chech your pm
06-13-2007, 10:04 AM
#18
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (dk4ever)
I have a 2000 Mustang GT with this COP system. Each plug has it's own coil pack resting on top of it and is sparked by the crank position. Bad thing about this is the fact that you need to replace individual coils if they go out or get wet! Not a cheap task be careful not to get them wet!
06-13-2007, 12:00 PM
#19
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Burnout Box, IA, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Eddiebx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eddiebx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
this looks pretty sweet, how much does a setup like that run? and did you machine that yourself? thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah I bought the wheel and then modified it, I made the hub and the balance shaft blockoff to mount the sensor to. If you read my post though I didn't have much luck with that setup unfortunately. I think the wheel was around $50 and the sensor was around $100, then the Motec sensor I tried was about $150 You could see in the datalogs where the signal was uneven and breaking up, definately not good on the motor.
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.
this looks pretty sweet, how much does a setup like that run? and did you machine that yourself? thanks!</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah I bought the wheel and then modified it, I made the hub and the balance shaft blockoff to mount the sensor to. If you read my post though I didn't have much luck with that setup unfortunately. I think the wheel was around $50 and the sensor was around $100, then the Motec sensor I tried was about $150 You could see in the datalogs where the signal was uneven and breaking up, definately not good on the motor.
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.
06-13-2007, 12:38 PM
#20
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Rosko)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
yeah I bought the wheel and then modified it, I made the hub and the balance shaft blockoff to mount the sensor to. If you read my post though I didn't have much luck with that setup unfortunately. I think the wheel was around $50 and the sensor was around $100, then the Motec sensor I tried was about $150 You could see in the datalogs where the signal was uneven and breaking up, definately not good on the motor.
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
from what i remember, the older EMS could be modified to read hall effect sensors. i think you send it back to AEM and they just move a jumper or something. but i really am not sure because i never looked into it myself.
yeah I bought the wheel and then modified it, I made the hub and the balance shaft blockoff to mount the sensor to. If you read my post though I didn't have much luck with that setup unfortunately. I think the wheel was around $50 and the sensor was around $100, then the Motec sensor I tried was about $150 You could see in the datalogs where the signal was uneven and breaking up, definately not good on the motor.
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
from what i remember, the older EMS could be modified to read hall effect sensors. i think you send it back to AEM and they just move a jumper or something. but i really am not sure because i never looked into it myself.
06-13-2007, 02:36 PM
#21
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Burnout Box, IA, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Distributorless Ignition system. (Eddiebx)
Heres my new setup (still needs a plug wired on tho)...
The sensors and pickup gears were out of an old gsr distributor but should be the same as what youd find in a H-series. The rest of it I designed and built around the housing trying to make the whole thing as compact as possible.
The sensors and pickup gears were out of an old gsr distributor but should be the same as what youd find in a H-series. The rest of it I designed and built around the housing trying to make the whole thing as compact as possible.
06-14-2007, 08:32 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Burnout Box, IA, U.S.A.
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (mgags7)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mgags7 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">shawn you need to sell a kit on that fancy website of yours, that billet setup is sweet!
good work man</TD></TR></TABLE>
thanks, I'll have to make sure this one works first
good work man
</TD></TR></TABLE>thanks, I'll have to make sure this one works first
06-14-2007, 09:09 AM
#24
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,319
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Rosko)
First off, I didn't know what the hell every one was talking about so I looked around and found this: http://www.racetep.com/hpx.htm
It claims no need for the ECU. So it seemed interesting to me. To better spark.
It claims no need for the ECU. So it seemed interesting to me.
To better spark.
06-14-2007, 09:23 AM
#25
I live under a rock
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Purple Prelude, DE
Posts: 11,107
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: (Televator)
I run (when it runs) a AEM C2DI box with a T1 trigger/cam gears and CBR954RR coils....
The older AEM boxes (ECU boxes, not igntions) need modified at AEM, the install another resistor.
The newer AEM ECU's have a jumper that you simply move when going COP.
Check out T1racedevelopment.com for instructions.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it can, send your AEM unit to AEM for the modifications.
The older AEM boxes (ECU boxes, not igntions) need modified at AEM, the install another resistor.
The newer AEM ECU's have a jumper that you simply move when going COP.
Check out T1racedevelopment.com for instructions.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rosko »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The kit that tony1 sells uses a different sensor that kind works the opposite way and reads a much clearer signal, but the older ems like mine can't read it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes it can, send your AEM unit to AEM for the modifications.