gratua

hello and thanks

recently got my CRX working again. I was able to drive 5 or 6 times. Then one morning I had it idling to warm up, it ran for about 7min then just died. I went out, got it started with some throttle, as soon as I let off the gas, it died. Once more, started with throttle, kept it between 2-3k, as soon as it dipped below ~600 it died and has yet to rise again. (lucky this car is so easy to push around hahaha)

A coworker suggested it may be the IACV, but I doubt it since idling doesn't matter without a start. Since I had recently been working on it, I went back through my new parts to make sure I had installed them correctly. Upon inspecting my spark plugs, they had oil halfway up their threads all through to the tips. I've since replaced the valve gasket under the engine cover, and the four spark plug gaskets, as that fixed the oil on the spark plugs of my 94 accord. Not so this time.

The plugs were clean when they went in, one crank later (without a full start, obviously) I pulled them out freshly coated in oil. My guess is that they are getting drenched when the cylinders cycle up during the crank? But I don't even know how to fix that, I've yet to go that deep into my engine. I've looked around and found some suggestions to replace my head gasket, but I just wanted to check in with you all before I undertake such an endeavor.

Any other tests I could run to narrow down the issue? Please, let me know how I can help you help me. Again, your help is greatly appreciated.

gringo7718

If your spark plug electrodes are being soaked with oil from inside the cylinder, after only a short crank, that is certainly not good. Leakdown test.

If your spark plus are wet with oil on the spark plug wires side, then it is valve cover gasket related.

gratua

it's not on the wire side
I did some quick searching, primarily found this https://honda-tech.com/forums/acura-integra-6/%2A%2A-how-leakdown-test-%2A%2A-1491041/. A leakdown test is beyond the scope of my tools. Not so much that I'm against picking up the gauge, but that I also have no air compressor. does anyone have a guess at how much this test would cost at a shop? If it goes too high, it wouldn't be bad to have an air compressor...
I guess I'm just looking for an estimate as to how much work may lie ahead. from the HT thread I linked, it seems like most of the leaks may be easy enough to chase down and fix.
Leaking out the exhaust = Exhaust Valve
Leaking into the intake/throttle plate = Intake Valve
Air bubbles in the top of the radiator(take off the rad cap) or into the adjacent cylinder = headgasket
Oil cap, Dipstick, Bottem end = Piston Rings

gringo7718

The biggest problem will not be the cost of the leakdown test, at least in comparison to the estimate that will result depending on what is wrong.

EFlove66

did you use gasket grease when doing the valve cover gasket? crank it again and pull the valve cover off. if you see oil on the gasket surface it isn't seating right and you could expect the same from the spark plug tube seals. also, what engine is in it/mileage/new parts/mods??

kp

OP says oil is coming from inside of the cylinder, we have already ruled out valve cover/spark plug tube gaskets completely.

crazyboy

first off what year and model do u have?

kp

Chances are it's a CRX from 88-91, but could be anywhere from 84-91.

gratua

91 crx, b16a swap
yes I used grease, and like kp said, the oil is on the wrong side for it to be the top gaskets (from what I understand from gringo's first reply)
I'll be picking up the testing gauge today and I've found a friend who has access to an air compressor. I hope to do the leakdown test today, optimally I'll know what I need to fix by tonight.
I'm still a bit unclear on what the leakdown actually tests though. To be certain, this is to pin down where the oil is leaking onto the plugs, right?

kp

A leak-down test will show you any inefficiencies in the sealing of the cylinder. You will thread a gauge and air fitting combination into one spark plug hole at a time and apply air pressure. You will apply a known amount of pressure, and watch how quickly the pressure drops due to a "leak" in the cylinder. It could be leaking past the piston rings, either exhaust or intake valves, a crack in the head/block etc. If there is a serious problem in any cylinder the gauge will drop very quickly. If the cylinder is good it will take a loooong time or not budge at all.

gratua

thank all for the replies. sorry for my delay. apparently a leakdown gauge is too rare a part for any part stores around me to carry it, so I'm waiting for a ride to the south end of town before I can continue.

however, are my spark plugs reusable? drenched in oil on the sparking side, is there a way to safely clean them?

4drEF

You can clean them off with just about anything.
They are porcelain and metal.
I guess soaking them in acid would be bad.

gratua

ok. I figured as much, I just wanted to be sure about the tips, didn't know if I could do something to damage them.
alright, I'm off! gonna clean the plugs with isopropyl and commence my leakdown test.

gratua

had essentially identical leaks from each cylinder, ~22%. hoping it's the head gasket. I'll be replacing that over the next week or so, and I'll be having a mobile mechanic come out to at least diagnose my car. I'm pretty much to the point of hoping I can fix it, but being ready to part out and sell my car. it'll be too bad, I like this thing.
thanks for all your help, everyone. I'm likely to be here again (as is the way of my hondas)

kp

You should start it up with the rad cap off, just sit down for a little while and look for bubbles in the rad. Also, open your coolant overflow bottle and smell inside for an exhaust smell.

If it's not your head gasket then you're most likely looking at poorly seated valves or worn piston rings. A headgasket replacement would be the best case scenario because you can pull your valves out while you have the head off and re-lap them.

I usually sell my cars very quickly, especially if there's an issue. There are a lot of people out there that buy cars fully knowing that they need work. I don't think you'll have an issue selling it.

Good luck!

dumafit

valve seals

gratua

It doesn't start, oil on the bottom of the spark plugs. I take them out, clean them, one crank later they are drenched.
And yeah I figure I'll be able to get rid of it, I'm just stuck between wanting it and also not wanting to go through buying yet another car. anyways...I've never had surfaces re-lapped. What kind of store do you take them to?

gratua

I'm working my way down to the head gasket. in reading through my manual, I'm mostly guided by the 'cylinder head' removal guide. this section takes me step by step dismantling the top of my engine, but I'm wondering if I need to do all that. quick question, could I skip straight to the cylinder head bolts? I'm not replacing camshaft pieces, so if I could, I'd like to leave all that intact. I feel like the cylinder head bolts are hidden under the camshaft...but I'm not totally sure. can't 100% match up bolts from the diagrams to my engine.

4drEF

http://www.lightningmotorsports.info...16aheadrem.htm
http://www.lightningmotorsports.info...aheadremII.htm

gratua

haha! beautiful, 4drEF. much love.

gratua

just figured I'd update this thread, if for no other purpose than the archive

after the walkthru 4drEF posted, I looked up several others. I was finding guides (NOT for the b16) where I didn't need to remove the cams, I could just do the 10-step sequence on the head bolts. well, no, I can't. from what I understand, DOCH puts the camshafts directly over the head bolts. SOHC you can just slip off the timing belt and pull the head, not so with this engine. also, I read 'if you have VTEC, the head bolts are in wells, best removed with a magnet.' I can't verify this yet, as I 1) have VTEC, so can't compare it to non-. and 2) have yet to pull the head. I'm stuck trying to loosen the timing belt. happy wrenching! =D

crvtectim

Bro, if you're stuck trying to loosen the timing belt, stop wrenching right now and turn this project over to a professional. No offense, but your motor will thank you later.

gratua

i'm stuck because I can't use my jack right now. the tension adjustment bolt is in a tight spot, and halfway down this page: https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...adgasket+F22B2 shows how to gain easier access. I'm waiting to do this, as my jack is currently the only thing in my garage heavy enough to hold together pieces of my greenhouse frame while I wait for the snow to stop so I can put it outside.
thanks for the recommendation, a wallet-raping(professional) is always my backpocket option, but I'm seriously trying to avoid it. I am sooooo close to getting this done, I'm learning an incredibly amount along the may, I'd hate to turn in now.

gratua

k, head's all pulled and I'm getting new gaskets. I come for clarification and opinion. Back to the subject of this thread, what kind of damage should I be looking for, any signs that could help assure the oil on the plugs came from the head gasket? I'm looking at everything, and there doesn't seem to be oil anywhere along the surfaces. are there specific channels of the block which run near the plugs that I could check for cracks? I'll be physically turning the head around tomorrow, just letting as much drip from it as I can. On to requests for clarification.
1
I have heard both to replace the head bolts and that you can reuse them. I'm leaning towards replace.
2
valves. some guides say to adjust them (they also say to loosen them while removing the camshafts) while other guides mention neither loosening nor adjusting. it seems like the ones who adjust have SOHC while the ones which leave it alone are DOHC...any clarification?

lastly, I read a suggestion somewhere about 'using a thicker head gasket,' supposedly to help keep from blowing it again. I didn't even know there was a choice to gasket thickness, any input?

crvtectim

I'd replace the head bolts with ARP head studs, use an OEM Honda head gasket, and only adjust the valves if they were chattering before.