JDM CRX

yeah, i just read some post that some dood wanted to swap a GSR engine in his CRX. everyone said you need to convert to OBDI,, **** that ****. OBDI licks the stick. i have a 88 CRX dx with a bShitteen in it now. i have a B18c1 that is going to be built for turbo and therefor will be turboed and dropped into my CRX. some dood said he had his B18c in a CRX running on pre OBD elecs. therfor ide use my wireing harnes i have in the car right now(hasport). the GSR would work if you put on the pre OBD distributor (provided it bolts up, i havnt checked yet) and the PRe OBD injectors, which ill have to replace with RC 770's anyhow. so i think it could be done on pre OBD,, correct me if im wrong?? i have a problem though, i need some type of major fuel management to run my car, im leaning towards AEM EMS,, but they dont make it compatible for PRe OBD stuff,,, WTF is that, so i may be forced to convert, arrrgg! although if i can stay with PRe oBD i know hondata systems work with PRe OBD hopefully someone with knowledge of this swap can give me a definate answer, and not a maybe. thanks

enabi

an Obd0 ecu will not activate your secondaries, unless you get it chipped with a gsr program.

JDM CRX

minor fact i left out,, the GSR stock mani can lick my *****, secondaries lick my shank.. im geting a STR mani, so no secondaries..

usdm_ED7

ya i had the same question too...could i run a gsr using obd0 with my b16 ecu? imma have it chipped too but will it run right or is it worth all the money to convert it to obd1?

Tbone

You need to re read the post my friend No one said he had too , we suggested he do it. Also if you read it , you would know that he has a 2000 gsr motor which is obd2 and he suggested that he wanted to convert it to obd1. Heck i used to run my 2000 type r motor with toda b cams and 11.4 cr on all pre obd electronics, yeah and they sucked. If your so confident with your pre obd set , then have fun with your pr3/pwo once you turbo it, i cant wait for your post once you realize that you cant pair your o2 sensors to the proper cylinders and you car run's like crap.
No need to start a new post either. If you have a comment that went with that subject , why not ask there.
Any way , I run obd1 1 now with hondata in my crx , so if you have anry Q's feel free to ask.

-Tom

Jeff C

Can you elaborate?

91CivicSi on H-T is runnin his car (91 hatch w/ 95 GSR motor) on OBD0 and we are installing a Greddy turbo/custom kit on it this weekend.
He will be runnin the turbo setup on the afc hack though, will that make a difference for the better?

ricodemus

I think he's saying that with the pre-obd, you will have to change the output from 2 o2 sensors instead of one. Wouldn't this be relieved by chipping the pw0 to disable the 2nd o2 (like Katman's program)?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

Well if your going to do it do it right the first time around. that way no getto regrets. (hope i don't affend anyone)
Tbone is right that's exactly how & what i would do. Just convert over the OBD1 electronics. The main reason why i'm doing it is for the TUNNING factor and ECU programs avaiablity.
I'm going the hondata route rather that the afc "hack"

yes you can run a B16a1 ecu with a GSR but you would have to get a FPR and AFC to turn out the fuel curve if you wanted it to run better. With the JDM B16a1 ecu it will work just fine but not as well as a stock GSR w/ the correct fuel maps and vtec engaement/crossover points.

just my thoughts though.. do what you likeLOL

Tbone

Sorry if I came off rude, i didn't mean to guys.
Here's some info on pr3/pwo ecu o2 issues.
From Hondata
"With the PW0/PR3 ECUs there are two oxygen sensors. A common problem is to wire one oxygen sensor into both pins in the ECU, or reverse the wiring of the primary and secondary oxygen sensors. In both cases the car will run badly under light throttle until sufficient load is placed on the engine for it to run out of closed loop.

The ECU uses each oxygen sensor to tune the mixture in one pair of cylinders. Normally the ECU will slowly lean the mixture for one cylinder pair, and look for the oxygen sensor showing the mixture going lean. Once this happens the ECU will start to enrichen the mixture until the oxygen sensor shows a rich mixture. The effect of this is to swing the mixture over a narrow range close to stoichiometric, typically lambda 0.98 to 1.02, which keeps the mixture close to the ideal range for the catalytic converter. The ECU will tune each cylinder pair independantly of each other.

If the oxygen sensor wires are swapped around then the ECU will still try to see a response from each cylinder pair. The ECU will start to lean out one cylinder pair, but will look at the oxygen sensor for the other cylinder pair, so will keep leaning the mixture out. The ECU will see that the other cylinder pair is lean, so will enrichen the mixture for that cylinder pair. The effect usually is that the ECU will run one cylinder pair about 20% lean, and the other 20% rich. The result is that the engine will run flat, without much response and may miss badly. A lambda sensor placed in the exhaust after the secondary pipes join will show that the mixture is roughly correct. Once the load on the engine is increased to a point where the ECU will stop running in closed loop then the engine will run much better, but will still run one cylinder pair lean and the other rich thanks to the long term closed loop adjustment.

Wiring one oxygen sensor into the two ECU pins will produce a similar problem, except the ECU will alternate between running each cylinder pair rich and lean."

MrTodd

For all of the turbo/vtec tuning you could just go for a Zdyne GOLD conversion ECU. You can adjust EVERYTHING on this ECU, but it is very expensive. You can use a pre-obd ECU for this conversion as well... Check out http://www.zdyne.com for more info y0.

Blown90hatcH

Go ahead and Turbo it with your built engine and preOBD electronics. But when your OBd0 distributor craps out and your dyno graph lines look like my kids scribbling on paper with crayons, you will understand.

Tbone

And he knows a thing or 2 about turbo 88-91 cars. Check his username =Blown90hatch.
Although he's a sellout now

MrTodd

That's a good point. All of the OBD-0 distributors out there are very very old. Since we can't get a hold of brand new OBD-0 B-series distributors, your out of luck! Now that I think about it, you probably are better off going with OBD-1.

Jeff C

I didnt sense any rudeness.
Well on 91CivicSi's setup, he is using the Zdyne One Conversion so it only has one O2 sensor pin. Does this not matter?
Why do you say this? Are you assuming he is using an old dist, or will the OBD0 dist just plain and simply will not hold up?
But you can, he also has a brand new 90 ls distributor on it.

I am not arguing guys cause I dont have half the experience you have...I just want to know what to expect.

For the record...MY rex...is OBD1!


[Modified by Jeff C, 7:23 AM 11/7/2002]

racerxadam

Besides needing an obd-1 conversion harness you shouldn't need much to make the aem ems work on your car. The software is smart enough to be configured to run with the obd-0 distributor. I'm not exactly sure what needs to be changed specifically but I was talking to dustin and he said that he got his crx running with his aem. I will be running the aem on my crx but I have already converted to an obd-1 distributor.

Carp

I am in the same situation right now, I am swaping a 97 GSR engine into my 88 crx. I dont knwo if I should go obd1 or obd0 HASport recomends useing the zdyne 2 wire conv. ecu for the secondaries and vtec and then going with a obd0 distributor and injectors, that way you will only need the stock one wire O2 sensor.
correct me if IM wrong
if I go obd1 I will need a chipped P28 (pretty easy to find)
a obd0> obd1 conv harness (250$)
Im not sure how to wire the O2's up in the obd1 setup.
they both sound simple enough, in my opinion if you go OBD0 you wont have as many wireing issues to tackle.
if anyone has any fedback or if I missed anything please let me know.

but after reading this thred im more confused on wich I should do OBD1 OR OBD0

Jeff C

If you are starting from scratch, GO OBD1!
The only reason 91civicsi went OBD0 is because he already had all the electronics from a previous swap.
I did the OBD1 convert to my 89 rex and there was nothing to it!
If you get a chipped P28, then the you only need 1 4-wire O2 and you dont have to worry about the knock sensor.
You will also need an OBD1 distributor.
As far as wiring it, with blown90hatch's harness, you only have to run these wires:
-the other three wires to complete the 4-wire O2 harness, since OBD0 only has a 1-wire O2
-a wire for vtec oil pressure
-a wire for vtec switch
-lastly, there is a wire that you run to a toggle switch then a ground wire from the toggle to a ground source and that is your Check Engine light switch.
-the harness comes with good instructions
I think thats it.

PS Blown90Hatch sells those harnesses for $170, I think.

Tbone

Carp, you can get your conversion harness from Blown90hatch for alot cheaper than 250.
Trust me when I tell you this "4 wire obd 1 o2 sensors are your friend"
Part throttle on 1 wire sensors suck. You need the heated sensor. If you plan on moving the 2 o2's with the obd 0 setup to a different location than stock , it might run like crap because the o2's are not getting hot enough. I know all of this first hand.
I'm just letting you know the problems that me and many others have run into. When you start getting into high dollar mods your not gonna want to have to worry about fueling prob's caused by 02 sensors , Especially if your going high cr like me, or even boost.

Carp

isnt the obd2 distributor I have from my 97 GSR engine compatible with OBD1???
I have used OBD2 distributors on OBD1 cars.
so the only thing I will need is
1 the OBD1 ECU
2 CONV HARNES
3 4 wire O2

that sounds simple to me, I will probably go OBD1 if thats all I need.
so I just need to knwo will the OBD2 distributor and injectors work with OBD1?
thanks for all the help.
one more thing, what about the secondaries on the B18C, how do I hook them up if I am not useing the zdyne 2 wire ecu?


[Modified by Carp, 9:22 PM 11/7/2002]

Tbone

You can run your obd2 dist, I run 99 gsr in mine. You will have to repin it though. As far as the injectors go, it's your choice. If you leave the resistor box in you can run the obd 0 inj's, if you want to run the obd 2 one's your gonna have to remove it. I kept it and run rc 370 peak hold's

Jeff C

Well I have no experience with them, but I image you'll either have to:
-get an obd1 gsr ecu to run them
-cut them out so you'll have some big runners
-buy a skunk2 or other aftermarket mani (this is what 91CivicSi did)
-I've just recently heard about removing a vacuum line on the intake somewhere and that will keep them open...*shrugs*

Blown90hatcH

Price is 170 shipped in the Sig.

You can run the OBD2 injectors and distributor with my OBD1 conversion harness

There are 2 wires on my harness that you can hook up to the evap and butterflies if you choose to run them.

Jason


[Modified by Blown90hatcH, 10:41 PM 11/7/2002]