bryan469

so i had a friend help me do the timing on a dohc zc after i replaced the waterpump and ran into a huge problem. so we did timing by the book, how your supposed to do it, and i mean we got it perfect everything looks ******* great!! but the timing is still off. before yall say anything i just wanna say that this guy is a pro and he's been doing this stuff forever.

anyways from his experince he thinks i have the wrong crank pulley on. (he used a timing gun to finally get it right, and the mark was way off)

i personally think the timing is still kinda funny, i mean it pulls at first and second but once i hit 5th gear a cel comes on, i dont even know what thats about.

He also stated that it was his first time working on a dohc zc and it will be his last lol.

ive searched and searched, but i cant find pictures of what the right crank pulley would look like so i could compare.

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

What CEL does it come up with?

bryan469

when it did pop up i forgot and turned the car off, and also in order to get that cel to pop up again i have to get up to about 80 and last time i did that, oil was everywhere on the right side of the head, i think i need to recheck my valve cover gasket. *sigh, all types of issues with it. im thinking about getting rid of the ZC.

290allen

you don't have the timing right. timing a dohc zc is harded then most hondas. Google it, when the timing is set right the cam gears appear to be off.

or if your interested text me and I can do the timing for you. I have run dohc zcs for years. have one in my wagon currently and I'm building one for my roomate currently
,Philip

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

That's actually what I was going to mention, the marks on the camgears should be level with one another on the inside only. The outer marks will look off but are irrelevant. Did you verify that personally? Also, you don't have to repeat the circumstance which triggered the check engine light. It should still be stored in the ECU, you just need to count the blinks. What ECU you are you using the by the way?

bryan469

we did it by the book, im gonna post up a pic in a bit, i got a PG7 from a teggy manual.

bryan469

ill check the code after work.

bryan469

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

So at that point the crank pulley is where it should be at correct?

alex1321

I also have big time with my dohc zc timing my timing looks perfect but still backfire and no power :S this engine sux so bad :S

bryan469

well no, in order for it to be timed correctly the crank pulley is off about 3 teeth. and thats as timed as can be. im gonna try and change out the O2 sensor.

bryan469

ya i know lol, im saving for a b18 swap...

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

Now you lost me, the crank pulley doesn't have any teeth. Are you referring to the timing gear behind it? Or do you mean that with the crank at TDC the cam gears are off by 3 teeth? Either way this sounds like a simple mechanical timing issue. It's not the end of the world and should be a fairly simple fix.

Would you be able to snap a picture of the camgears again but this time take the picture with the crank pulley at TDC? It might help to see exactly how far off those cams are from their alignment marks.

4drEF

If I'm reading that correctly, you are saying that in order to get the cams to line up like they did in the picture, your crank was set about 3 teeth off.
If that is the case, then what you NEED to do is remove the timing belt and turn the crank 3 teeth.
The cam gears and crank all need to be set correctly - not just the cams.

O2 sensor is not going to fix an incorrectly installed timing belt.

asianflava

If you did it by the book, did you insert punches (or screwdrivers) in the cam holes?

RuneRavenX

Timing is off. It's that simple. loosen timing belt with the cams in the proper place, turn crank to proper place, retorque tensioner, turn the crank around once just to be sure, done. You're hardcore overthinking this. Fix the timing. The timing on crank can't be 3 teeth off and run correctly


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bryan469

lol ok ok i should have been more clear, the crank (cylinder 1 also) was all at TDC the crank thingy behind the pulley was lined up with a little white arrow right on, then next we did the cam gears, as you can see in the pic it was perfect!! so we crank it on and it is definately not timed it turns right back off, we even used a timing gun. so in order for the car to stay on and timed correctly (according to the gun) the crank had to be 3 teeth off.

bryan469

so what im trying to tell you guys is i think there was different parts used on this engine, thats all i could think of, we're using TDC and we even line up that little white arrow with the crank at the block, then we did the cam gears at the top, rechecked everything, cranked it on, it spins then turns right off. its not right.

so im pretty sure someone rigged this engine with different parts to make it work.

4drEF

You need to figure out what pulleys and gears you have.
There is no way that it should be that far off.

RuneRavenX

You'll end up damaging something if you keep cranking that thing the way it is. 3 teeth off is a HUGE deal, the timing gun is not going to help set the mechanical timing in this situation. Do some research, even snap some pics of the pulley and post to figure out what parts you have on that car. How did you even use a timing gun if the car won't stay running and idling?

24TEN

iTrader: (2)

The cam gears in that picture show that they are perfectly aligned with one another, but that doesn't mean that they are perfectly aligned with one another at TDC.

I have to ask, you said you lined up the crank at TDC, then you aligned the cams, and then you cranked it on. That is what worries me. Are you saying that you lined up the crank at TDC and cam gears simultaneously and "cranked" the belt on? Or do you mean you literally just installed the belt and "cranked it on" as in turned the engine on? Because your description sounds like you didn't verify if the mechanical timing moved or not prior to doing anything else. Here's a more direct question for you, before you cranked anything on (be it the belt or turned on the engine), after you installed the belt did you verify that your cam gears were correctly aligned with one another at TDC after rotating the crank by hand? No matter how I think of it, 3 teeth is simple belt installation error.

RuneRavenX

Yeah, mine was off a tooth or two the first time I timed it. it is very very easy for the crank to move by accident, causing it to be off. Having the cam gears in the proper place first is the best thing to do, then loosen the tensioner pulley, put crank at tdc, then retorque. After that, it should be dead on. the cam gears will be in the proper place, and then all you have to do is make sure the crank doesn't move when you put the belt on.

4drEF

Use a screwdriver or something to verify piston is all the way up at TDC before assuming those timing marks on the pulley are correct.
Getting the feeling you have the wrong pulley and the marks are not in the right place.

swordofdoom

There is a tiny little mark on the oil pump that is not noticeable or it just looks like a plain ol chicken scratch mark. If you line the crankshaft up with it it will be at TDC and plug a pin into the camshafts to prevent them from moving. If you get it right and spin the crank several times, everything will look likes its not lined up right, but somehow it will run correctly.

bryan469

thats what im saying, im thinking the crank and pulley are not original, so the marks arent lining up.

and for the timing part its pretty muched timed right now, using the gun. i mean it stays on, and surges a little bit when i start it up cold.

I really dont want to **** with this engine anymore, if i do the timing myself again, theres no way i can get it back on right. im just gonna leave it how it is, and slowly start buying parts for a b-swap.

i really wanna thank everyone for helping me out at this point, i appreciate all the replies and pointers.

but at this point this is as much as i can do with it, i rather not waste anymore change on this engine and just save for a new one.