crank pulley color code paint?
03-08-2012, 12:39 PM
#1
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crank pulley color code paint?
hey guys i was trying to find out which color or which way its advanced or retarded on the crank pulley.
actually im having a hard time telling the color so, which direction is it advanced or retarded if the timinig light flashes on the mark towards the cabin vs. the front of the car?
the marks im talking about is the 3 color tick marks on the crank pulley and not the single white mark.
this is on a d16 block.
actually im having a hard time telling the color so, which direction is it advanced or retarded if the timinig light flashes on the mark towards the cabin vs. the front of the car?
the marks im talking about is the 3 color tick marks on the crank pulley and not the single white mark.
this is on a d16 block.
03-08-2012, 04:09 PM
#3
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
I'm pretty sure with the three ignition marks......the middle being 16 BTDC....the one towards the front is advance and the one towards the cabin is retarded......If you're setting your ignition timing back to spec's, just use the middle mark.
Last edited by 90civic-ZC; 03-08-2012 at 07:55 PM.
03-08-2012, 04:16 PM
#4
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
you are correct. im trying to get it as close to dead center as possible. im a little OCD with getting it exact.
this is what im working with. i have a d16a6 block with a y8 head. we all know that doing these swaps the tooth is off by about half. so i just installed an adjustable cam gear to help compensate. it takes a while to get it perfect and im almost there.
well here is my delema.
i dont want to mess it up since im about 1 adjustable-cam-gear degree off. i wanted to just move it correctly at this point because im pretty tired now. im on one side of it and wanted to turn the gear properly and call it a day. the gear does have +/- signs so i should be good once i figure out if its sitting right now at adv and retard using my timing light.
03-08-2012, 05:05 PM
#5
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
From a different thread:
You absolutley should NOT change the timing of the engine with an adjustable cam gear. You can change the degree of the camshaft (I guess you could say changes cam timing). As stated above, if you want to advance or retard the timing this must be done at the distributor to be done correctly. You can change the power band with advancing or retarding the camshaft, but that could hinder performance.
Sooo... 1 tooth is 9* off centerline so 1/2 a tooth is 4.5*... using that setup you will be 4.5* advanced. Set your ignition timing to 16* BTDC regardless... be sure to jump the service connector first... You do NOT want to use the camshaft to set timing. Just adjust the cam gear retarded (clock-wise) 4.5* and then set the ignition timing. Simple as that.
JUST STOP!!!
Do you use this as a journal? Wait for someone to help you out... Or do all your searching then make a thread. All you do is confuse yourself; you are also making this way more difficult than it needs to be.
The crankshaft pulley has TWO sets of TIMING marks on it. The THREE grouped together are for setting IGNITION TIMING.
The one by itself is for setting MECHANICAL TIMING/ TOP DEAD CENTER.
You shouldn't have the lower timing cover on anyways to properly set the timing. If you take the pulley off, the plastic covers, you will see the crankshaft timing gear has a line that will line up with an arrow on the oil pump. If you HAVE to set the timing with the covers on then do it with the tabs. You should be looking directly down and aligning the tab that sticks out with the tab that goes in. These get aligned with the single mark when setting mechanical timing.
Top tab = |>
Bottom Tab = |<
For the camshaft alignment marks the cam sprocket has a mark on the A6 that isn't inline with the two across from each other. This aligns with a mark on the rear timing cover behind the sprocket. (Just like the picture. If you had a B2 or something then it gets lined up with the valve cover mating surface.)
After you have all that set properly you use the "male and female" timing tabs on the plastic cover to set ignition timing with the vehicle running and a timing light. Again you must line up the tabs when you look down at them (just like shooting a gun) to get an accurate timing reading. The 3 marks are used for this. Hondas should be set to 16* BTDC which is why the middle mark is red as that lets you know that is 16* BTDC... So the marks beside it are +/- 2* BTDC. As in...
White ' Red ' White ~~~~~~~White
---- | --- | --- | -------------------- | --------
__18*_16*_14*_____________0* (TDC)
Now obviously you need to set both mechanical and ignition timing as described in the factory service manual otherwise it won't be tensioned properly or it will be off. If at any time when setting mechanical timing there is resistance where it feels like a positive stop - THEN STOP because that is your piston hitting a valve and you can mess stuff up.
Do you use this as a journal? Wait for someone to help you out... Or do all your searching then make a thread. All you do is confuse yourself; you are also making this way more difficult than it needs to be.
The crankshaft pulley has TWO sets of TIMING marks on it. The THREE grouped together are for setting IGNITION TIMING.
The one by itself is for setting MECHANICAL TIMING/ TOP DEAD CENTER.
You shouldn't have the lower timing cover on anyways to properly set the timing. If you take the pulley off, the plastic covers, you will see the crankshaft timing gear has a line that will line up with an arrow on the oil pump. If you HAVE to set the timing with the covers on then do it with the tabs. You should be looking directly down and aligning the tab that sticks out with the tab that goes in. These get aligned with the single mark when setting mechanical timing.
Top tab = |>
Bottom Tab = |<
For the camshaft alignment marks the cam sprocket has a mark on the A6 that isn't inline with the two across from each other. This aligns with a mark on the rear timing cover behind the sprocket. (Just like the picture. If you had a B2 or something then it gets lined up with the valve cover mating surface.)
After you have all that set properly you use the "male and female" timing tabs on the plastic cover to set ignition timing with the vehicle running and a timing light. Again you must line up the tabs when you look down at them (just like shooting a gun) to get an accurate timing reading. The 3 marks are used for this. Hondas should be set to 16* BTDC which is why the middle mark is red as that lets you know that is 16* BTDC... So the marks beside it are +/- 2* BTDC. As in...
White ' Red ' White ~~~~~~~White
---- | --- | --- | -------------------- | --------
__18*_16*_14*_____________0* (TDC)
Now obviously you need to set both mechanical and ignition timing as described in the factory service manual otherwise it won't be tensioned properly or it will be off. If at any time when setting mechanical timing there is resistance where it feels like a positive stop - THEN STOP because that is your piston hitting a valve and you can mess stuff up.
Sooo... 1 tooth is 9* off centerline so 1/2 a tooth is 4.5*... using that setup you will be 4.5* advanced. Set your ignition timing to 16* BTDC regardless... be sure to jump the service connector first... You do NOT want to use the camshaft to set timing. Just adjust the cam gear retarded (clock-wise) 4.5* and then set the ignition timing. Simple as that.
03-08-2012, 09:04 PM
#6
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
what do you mean jump the service connector?
so i set the timing light to 16 degrees to check the advanced tick marks.
im still confused on why im not using the 18 degree that is on the sticker under the hood?
can i trust the timing light with the tick marks that light up with the different head and different bottom?
so i set the timing light to 16 degrees to check the advanced tick marks.
im still confused on why im not using the 18 degree that is on the sticker under the hood?
can i trust the timing light with the tick marks that light up with the different head and different bottom?
03-09-2012, 05:29 AM
#7
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
The service connector is right under the blower fan inside the passenger side of the car. Stick a piece of wire into both slots to basically kinda "shorting it". You're setting the ignition timing by hand and if you dont connect a paper clip or wire in the service connector you'll be fighting the ecu trying to set the ignition timing too. There's a "v" mark in the timing belt cover towards the firewall that you set the ignition timing by with a timing light. Just stick your head over the timing belt cover and look straight down. As far as 18 BTDC.......do what you want but you gotta realize you've frankenstiened a motor and 16 BTDC is a Honda "average" for setting the igntion timing. And you should try to get your mechanical timing as close to specs as possible.......unless you know how to advance or retard timing to better benefit your set up, I'd just go with being in stock spec.
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03-09-2012, 06:57 AM
#8
DO IT ON ALL FOURS
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
what do you mean jump the service connector?
I suggest you purchase a service manual. This is THE ONLY way you can actually set the ignition timing...
so i set the timing light to 16 degrees to check the advanced tick marks.
I don't understand what your question even is. You are making this A LOT more difficult than it really is.
im still confused on why im not using the 18 degree that is on the sticker under the hood?
Is your engine a 100% stock and factory one? No you say? So why is the good sticker even being brought up?
can i trust the timing light with the tick marks that light up with the different head and different bottom?
What exactly do you mean by "trust the timing light"? Why, would the timing marks magically change? It's either in time or it's not.
I suggest you purchase a service manual. This is THE ONLY way you can actually set the ignition timing...
so i set the timing light to 16 degrees to check the advanced tick marks.
I don't understand what your question even is. You are making this A LOT more difficult than it really is.
im still confused on why im not using the 18 degree that is on the sticker under the hood?
Is your engine a 100% stock and factory one? No you say? So why is the good sticker even being brought up?
can i trust the timing light with the tick marks that light up with the different head and different bottom?
What exactly do you mean by "trust the timing light"? Why, would the timing marks magically change? It's either in time or it's not.
03-09-2012, 07:17 AM
#9
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
thanks guys.
so 16 degrees is the avg. i understand now. and since its not stock i would want to go with that.
on my timing light, i have the ability to adjust the degree the light flashes. i can set it from 0 to 16 if needed. if i set it to 16 degrees then the flashes move from flashing on the single white to the three tick marks.
i do have the green honda service manual.
what page is the ignition timing located in the service manual. i have been looking for it and its not very easy to navigate through. i only found the page where it says to install the crank pulley.
is the service connector the same one you short out when doing the cel light check (flashes).
so 16 degrees is the avg. i understand now. and since its not stock i would want to go with that.
on my timing light, i have the ability to adjust the degree the light flashes. i can set it from 0 to 16 if needed. if i set it to 16 degrees then the flashes move from flashing on the single white to the three tick marks.
i do have the green honda service manual.
what page is the ignition timing located in the service manual. i have been looking for it and its not very easy to navigate through. i only found the page where it says to install the crank pulley.
is the service connector the same one you short out when doing the cel light check (flashes).
03-09-2012, 08:40 AM
#10
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
It's the only little male connector harness hanging from under the blower fan. (blue if I remember correctly)........You have to get your mechanical timing set before you set the ignition timing.
03-09-2012, 10:07 AM
#11
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
A dial back light delays the strobe light in the amount of the number of degrees on the dial. With a conventional light, in order to check total timing, you'd disconnect the vacuum advance (or other similar features), rev the motor to 3000rpm (that's usually fast enough to ensure the distributor timing is maxed out), and you would pull the trigger to check timing. Now, with a dial-back light, and the engine at 3000rpm, turn the dial clockwise and you'll see the timing mark on the balancer "retard" and move closer and closer to the 0-degree mark on the timing tab. Keep turning the dial until the timing mark lines up with the 0-degree mark, check to see how many degrees you've dialed in on the light, and that's your total timing. Simple as that!
BUT!!! There is a catch... This feature on your standard timing light is for engines that rotate clockwise. Honda engines rotate Counter Clock-Wise!!! This renders the feature absolutley useless; not to mention the fact that the ignition timing is completely controlled by the ECU.
I always recommend the average "Joe" to NOT get one of the nicer timing lights with the "dial back" feature. A standard timing light is all you need. The dial back one will work, but be sure to leave the setting at "0". Timing lights in general aren't that accurate believe it or not. There can also be interference in the signal, so be sure to put the clamp on the right way and keep it and it's wire away from all other wires. All that is a subject all in itself...
Sooo... again, you are making this MUCH more difficult that it needs to be. The service connector is the one that you use to check CEL codes if you are non-OBD-0.
BUT!!! There is a catch... This feature on your standard timing light is for engines that rotate clockwise. Honda engines rotate Counter Clock-Wise!!! This renders the feature absolutley useless; not to mention the fact that the ignition timing is completely controlled by the ECU.
I always recommend the average "Joe" to NOT get one of the nicer timing lights with the "dial back" feature. A standard timing light is all you need. The dial back one will work, but be sure to leave the setting at "0". Timing lights in general aren't that accurate believe it or not. There can also be interference in the signal, so be sure to put the clamp on the right way and keep it and it's wire away from all other wires. All that is a subject all in itself...
Sooo... again, you are making this MUCH more difficult that it needs to be. The service connector is the one that you use to check CEL codes if you are non-OBD-0.
03-09-2012, 12:18 PM
#12
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
plug a wire between the service connector holes to short it out.
rev it to 3k rpm.
set my timing light to 0.
match it up with the single white light.
what about the 16 degree?
rev it to 3k rpm.
set my timing light to 0.
match it up with the single white light.
what about the 16 degree?
03-09-2012, 02:52 PM
#13
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
The single white line is for the mechanical timing. It's for TDC.......the three lines are for the ignition timing, as Nevereversatisfied stated....18/16/14....< in order if you were looking at the timing belt cover from the driver side. set the ignition timing at 16.
03-09-2012, 04:00 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
thanks for the clear up. sorry i didnt know what they were called.
i found out that the stock Y8 head has its setting at 12 degrees.
should i avg the two out from there?
such as my D16A6 is stock at 18* and the new Y8 im using is 12*.
should i be at 15 degrees?
unless i got the Y8 numbers wrong.
with the timing light set at "0" i should be looking at flashes at the three ticks not the single tick. this is what im understanding now.
i found out that the stock Y8 head has its setting at 12 degrees.
should i avg the two out from there?
such as my D16A6 is stock at 18* and the new Y8 im using is 12*.
should i be at 15 degrees?
unless i got the Y8 numbers wrong.
with the timing light set at "0" i should be looking at flashes at the three ticks not the single tick. this is what im understanding now.
Last edited by 949; 03-09-2012 at 04:36 PM.
03-09-2012, 05:46 PM
#15
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
Haha, I think you're getting confused between mechanical timing and ignition timing... and possibly trying to combine the two lol! Be sure the mechanical timing (timing belt) is spot on TDC. Single mark on crank pulley lines up with mark on lower timing cover, cam marks line up with surface of head while the UP mark faces up.
Once that's done, you're ready to set ignition timing. Jump the service connector. Crank the car and let it reach normal operating temp. Once the radiator fan has kicked on, you can begin dialing in the ignition timing using your timing light. Set it to 0. Clamp to #1 plug wire. Adjust the distributor until you are dead on the middle mark in the cluster of 3 marks. Tighten top distributor bolt. Double check nothing moved while you were snugging that bolt by shooting the light again. All looks good, tighten the other two distributor bolts and you're done.
If you ever need to remove the distributor in the future, mark it and the head first so you don't have to shoot the timing light at it again after you reassemble.
Once that's done, you're ready to set ignition timing. Jump the service connector. Crank the car and let it reach normal operating temp. Once the radiator fan has kicked on, you can begin dialing in the ignition timing using your timing light. Set it to 0. Clamp to #1 plug wire. Adjust the distributor until you are dead on the middle mark in the cluster of 3 marks. Tighten top distributor bolt. Double check nothing moved while you were snugging that bolt by shooting the light again. All looks good, tighten the other two distributor bolts and you're done.
If you ever need to remove the distributor in the future, mark it and the head first so you don't have to shoot the timing light at it again after you reassemble.
03-09-2012, 08:25 PM
#16
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Thread Starter
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
wow, very clear. added to the what everyone said it makes it much more easier. i now understand the procedure.
thanks.
but why are the previous post stating that i need to set it at a certain degree. how do i do that?
i thought all i need to do is set it to 0 degree and guide the light to the middle tick marks.
thanks.
but why are the previous post stating that i need to set it at a certain degree. how do i do that?
i thought all i need to do is set it to 0 degree and guide the light to the middle tick marks.
Last edited by 949; 03-09-2012 at 09:09 PM.
03-10-2012, 05:14 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
wow, very clear. added to the what everyone said it makes it much more easier. i now understand the procedure.
thanks.
but why are the previous post stating that i need to set it at a certain degree. how do i do that?
i thought all i need to do is set it to 0 degree and guide the light to the middle tick marks.
thanks.
but why are the previous post stating that i need to set it at a certain degree. how do i do that?
i thought all i need to do is set it to 0 degree and guide the light to the middle tick marks.
03-10-2012, 06:39 AM
#18
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Thread Starter
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
oh ok. i see. so when you guys say set it to a XXXXX degree means that set the light on a particular marking on the crank pulley.
in this instance he is saying 16 degree meaning the middle one in the row of three tick marks with the timming light set to "0".
i forgot to mention that the system is on the p28 obd1 ecu. would the service connector work now too? or is it different method?
in this instance he is saying 16 degree meaning the middle one in the row of three tick marks with the timming light set to "0".
i forgot to mention that the system is on the p28 obd1 ecu. would the service connector work now too? or is it different method?
03-10-2012, 07:04 PM
#19
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
oh ok. i see. so when you guys say set it to a XXXXX degree means that set the light on a particular marking on the crank pulley.
What else would we be talking about? Playing with the timing gun doesn't change anything as IT'S NOT PART OF YOUR VEHICLE!!!
in this instance he is saying 16 degree meaning the middle one in the row of three tick marks with the timming light set to "0".
Yes - throw that timing light in the garbage.
i forgot to mention that the system is on the p28 obd1 ecu. would the service connector work now too? or is it different method?
Depends on how it's wired. You can always ground D4 to jumper the codes... but didn't you already say that you knew how to check the codes? This is the service connector as was previously stated. Let me guess though, now you need wiring diagrams?
What else would we be talking about? Playing with the timing gun doesn't change anything as IT'S NOT PART OF YOUR VEHICLE!!!
in this instance he is saying 16 degree meaning the middle one in the row of three tick marks with the timming light set to "0".
Yes - throw that timing light in the garbage.
i forgot to mention that the system is on the p28 obd1 ecu. would the service connector work now too? or is it different method?
Depends on how it's wired. You can always ground D4 to jumper the codes... but didn't you already say that you knew how to check the codes? This is the service connector as was previously stated. Let me guess though, now you need wiring diagrams?
DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND THROW THAT TIMING LIGHT/GUN IN THE GARBAGE. Go buy the cheapest one you can find with just one button/trigger.
Once you have done that - purchase a manual.
After that, do EXACTLY as "crvtectim" has stated. It doesn't get any more basic than that. I can't think on that low of a level to help you any further. I just don't understand what you don't understand about this process. It is one of the most basic things when it comes to actually working on an engine.
03-10-2012, 09:55 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
thanks for your help.
the wiring is done right. i have a pnp harness from rywire..
i have never looked for the service wire for this car before but i am familiar with what it does on other cars.
the wiring is done right. i have a pnp harness from rywire..
i have never looked for the service wire for this car before but i am familiar with what it does on other cars.
03-11-2012, 10:38 AM
#21
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Thread Starter
Re: crank pulley color code paint?
ok just did the adjustments.
i hooked up the service connector that was shown in the manual book but nothing happend. the check engine light did not light up. since this is a p28 with a hondata i had assumed it wouldnt work. so i hooked up the two leads that rywire has on the rywire obd0 to obd1 wiring swap i have now. with these two leads connected to each other i did get the check engine light to lite up. i made sure the car is very warm. enough to have the car's radiator fan come on.
i set the timing light to 0 degree and proceded to adjust the skunk2 adjustable cam pulley. i lined up the light to have the center of the 3 tick marks to be right under the notch on the pulley cover.
i also tried to have the dizzy as center as possible before doing the cam adjustments.
it looks like its idling pretty good now.
thanks guys for the detailed help. i hope that this will help others when they do their swap and need info on how to do this.
since i had it all attached and done, i thought i could just look at what happens when i switch the timing light towards 18 degrees.
well as i moved it a degree at a time the light slowly moves the single white tick mark towards the notch guide on the pulley cover.
at 18 degrees its exactly under the single line.
on the pulley the front of the car is advanced and towards the rear is retard.
~~~~~~~~White ' Red ' White ~~~~~~~White
--------------- | --- | --- | ----------------------------- | --------
(ADV side)_____18*_16*_14*__(RETARD side)___________0* (TDC)
i hooked up the service connector that was shown in the manual book but nothing happend. the check engine light did not light up. since this is a p28 with a hondata i had assumed it wouldnt work. so i hooked up the two leads that rywire has on the rywire obd0 to obd1 wiring swap i have now. with these two leads connected to each other i did get the check engine light to lite up. i made sure the car is very warm. enough to have the car's radiator fan come on.
i set the timing light to 0 degree and proceded to adjust the skunk2 adjustable cam pulley. i lined up the light to have the center of the 3 tick marks to be right under the notch on the pulley cover.
i also tried to have the dizzy as center as possible before doing the cam adjustments.
it looks like its idling pretty good now.
thanks guys for the detailed help. i hope that this will help others when they do their swap and need info on how to do this.
since i had it all attached and done, i thought i could just look at what happens when i switch the timing light towards 18 degrees.
well as i moved it a degree at a time the light slowly moves the single white tick mark towards the notch guide on the pulley cover.
at 18 degrees its exactly under the single line.
on the pulley the front of the car is advanced and towards the rear is retard.
~~~~~~~~White ' Red ' White ~~~~~~~White
--------------- | --- | --- | ----------------------------- | --------
(ADV side)_____18*_16*_14*__(RETARD side)___________0* (TDC)
03-12-2012, 04:32 AM
#24
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
What you just said makes 100% no sense... Something is severely wrong here. You do realize the number one cylinder is closest to the timing components right?
STOP worrying about the single white mark. This is soley for setting MECHANICAL timing.
The 3 marks grouped together are ONLY for IGNITION timing. For ignition timing you use a timing light.
With the car warm but turned off, distributor bolts loosened (barely), the service connector jumpered, and the clamp facing the right direction on the number one spark plug wire - you can then start the vehicle. Pull the trigger/push the button on the timing light. Adjust the distributor until the center mark of the 3 marks is in line with the timing tabs located on the timing cover. Snug the top bolt on the distributor. Recheck the timing. If it moved, readjust and repeat as necessary. Once you get it where it needs to be then tighten up the distributor bolts.
It is really. that. simple.
STOP worrying about the single white mark. This is soley for setting MECHANICAL timing.
The 3 marks grouped together are ONLY for IGNITION timing. For ignition timing you use a timing light.
With the car warm but turned off, distributor bolts loosened (barely), the service connector jumpered, and the clamp facing the right direction on the number one spark plug wire - you can then start the vehicle. Pull the trigger/push the button on the timing light. Adjust the distributor until the center mark of the 3 marks is in line with the timing tabs located on the timing cover. Snug the top bolt on the distributor. Recheck the timing. If it moved, readjust and repeat as necessary. Once you get it where it needs to be then tighten up the distributor bolts.
It is really. that. simple.
03-12-2012, 05:51 AM
#25
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Re: crank pulley color code paint?
Rofl, I have to back up here a second. Op, how exactly did you adjust your S2 cam gear? It should be set to 0, unless you're using a degree wheel to "degree" your camshaft. <-- That's how you find true top dead center for the mechanical timing of the engine. Again, you're mixing up mechanical and ignition timing. Stop it... just stop it! :]