148whp on a SOHC and more tq then a b16 :)
06-03-2004, 06:30 PM
#126
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (ixiblindixi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ixiblindixi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
dude,
, the real benefit of d-series motors are:
-they're cheap and plentiful (i bought 25psi capable pistons w/ rings for boost for $110 NEW.....mate that with LS rod's and a blockguard and you can boost into the teens all day)
-"easy" to boost
-in a lightweight chassis they're zippy (i'd never rock an N/A sohc in an EK
)
-you're working on a platform that you already have, meaning you can piece it along as you go
that's the REAL advantage of d-series motors........don't hate too much man, try to keep an open mind, i've had a dohc and will probably have one soon too, but it's not to say the D is a complete piece of ****, if you can't understand this then we are forced to agree to disagree
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Okay. I guess I should say that there are no performance advantages above and beyond ground clearance. Never did I say that D-series motors are in any way bad or that they cannot be made to produce power. Simply that (1) they are neither equal to nor better than B-series motors when it comes to power and torque (and many here seem to think the latter is true), and (2) raising compression by three points won't get you 40HP, 25ft-lb torque.
As for the cost of parts that I mentioned, there are always cheaper ways to go. But they might not be the best way to go. For instance, you can get spring/retainer kits for less than $300. But $300 is the most commonly available price for kits from reputable companies like Crane and Crower. Regardless, even if the built Z6 can be made for $1000 less, you still end up with a motor that is largely maxed-out performance-wise (allmotor, at least) as opposed to one that can EASILY make 190-200WHP with just bolt-ons and cams. And you don't get that really nice ITR transmission (which is worth an extra thousand alone!).
dude,
, the real benefit of d-series motors are:-they're cheap and plentiful (i bought 25psi capable pistons w/ rings for boost for $110 NEW.....mate that with LS rod's and a blockguard and you can boost into the teens all day)
-"easy" to boost
-in a lightweight chassis they're zippy (i'd never rock an N/A sohc in an EK
)-you're working on a platform that you already have, meaning you can piece it along as you go
that's the REAL advantage of d-series motors........don't hate too much man, try to keep an open mind, i've had a dohc and will probably have one soon too, but it's not to say the D is a complete piece of ****, if you can't understand this then we are forced to agree to disagree
</TD></TR></TABLE>Okay. I guess I should say that there are no performance advantages above and beyond ground clearance. Never did I say that D-series motors are in any way bad or that they cannot be made to produce power. Simply that (1) they are neither equal to nor better than B-series motors when it comes to power and torque (and many here seem to think the latter is true), and (2) raising compression by three points won't get you 40HP, 25ft-lb torque.
As for the cost of parts that I mentioned, there are always cheaper ways to go. But they might not be the best way to go. For instance, you can get spring/retainer kits for less than $300. But $300 is the most commonly available price for kits from reputable companies like Crane and Crower. Regardless, even if the built Z6 can be made for $1000 less, you still end up with a motor that is largely maxed-out performance-wise (allmotor, at least) as opposed to one that can EASILY make 190-200WHP with just bolt-ons and cams. And you don't get that really nice ITR transmission (which is worth an extra thousand alone!).
06-03-2004, 07:04 PM
#128
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (ceLtic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ceLtic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what a controversy, ask this guy who made the 148whp, what mods he has, then speak on that. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's just it. The guy says that the motor is pretty much completely stock except for compression that has been raised from 9.6:1 to 12.5:1. I don't know if he has an intake or exhaust. But he says he doesn't even have a header. A D16Z6/D16Y8 produces about 105HP,95ft-lb torque to the wheels bone stock. With i/h/e, this increases by about 10HP, 10ft-lb torque to about 115HP, 105ft-lb torque. But raising compression by 3 points is NOT going to get you 33HP,20ft-lb torque. I GREATLY question those dyno charts. In fact, they look suspiciously like a Y8 with a Jackson Racing supercharger to me, both in terms of power/torque levels as well as the shapes of the curves. And I think that is what they are. Because 148WHP, 125ft-lb torque is NOT happening with those mods.
That's just it. The guy says that the motor is pretty much completely stock except for compression that has been raised from 9.6:1 to 12.5:1. I don't know if he has an intake or exhaust. But he says he doesn't even have a header. A D16Z6/D16Y8 produces about 105HP,95ft-lb torque to the wheels bone stock. With i/h/e, this increases by about 10HP, 10ft-lb torque to about 115HP, 105ft-lb torque. But raising compression by 3 points is NOT going to get you 33HP,20ft-lb torque. I GREATLY question those dyno charts. In fact, they look suspiciously like a Y8 with a Jackson Racing supercharger to me, both in terms of power/torque levels as well as the shapes of the curves. And I think that is what they are. Because 148WHP, 125ft-lb torque is NOT happening with those mods.
06-03-2004, 07:21 PM
#130
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (tissimo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tissimo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its nice but not totally streetable. Still cool though! </TD></TR></TABLE>
So what are you saying here? That the engine has more than just a compression increase? That is what I thought. There is no reason why a simple compression increase to 12.5:1 would make a car unstreetable, as there are plenty of streetable cars out there with that kind of compression, both D-series and B-series.
</TD></TR></TABLE>So what are you saying here? That the engine has more than just a compression increase? That is what I thought. There is no reason why a simple compression increase to 12.5:1 would make a car unstreetable, as there are plenty of streetable cars out there with that kind of compression, both D-series and B-series.
06-03-2004, 07:29 PM
#131
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Re: (infinatenexus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I got mine brand new.. with rings and wrist pins for a little over 140.00 from: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm talking from Acura P29's but yes you can get aftermarket replacements for as little as $99 from nippon.
I got mine brand new.. with rings and wrist pins for a little over 140.00 from: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm talking from Acura P29's but yes you can get aftermarket replacements for as little as $99 from nippon.
06-04-2004, 06:14 AM
#132
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Re: (phatrick2332)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> Over the last year, year and a half the Dseries aftermarket has stepped up, and now the D is on just as good of a playing field as the bseries, if not better.</TD></TR></TABLE>
put the pipe down, really that was dumb.
put the pipe down, really that was dumb.
06-04-2004, 06:51 AM
#134
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Re: (slowpokesi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowpokesi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hes also using a mustang dyno, its not the same as a dyno jet and they seriously overrate the power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
No, its the other way around. Mustang dynos read true and you will see lower numbers with a mustang dyno compared to a dynojet or dynopack.
It's bullshit, it didn't happen, there is no way that motor is making that much power. It simply shows a dyno, the mods or car isn't listed on the dyno. I wouldn't even think for a second to believe this is true.
No, its the other way around. Mustang dynos read true and you will see lower numbers with a mustang dyno compared to a dynojet or dynopack.
It's bullshit, it didn't happen, there is no way that motor is making that much power. It simply shows a dyno, the mods or car isn't listed on the dyno. I wouldn't even think for a second to believe this is true.
06-08-2004, 12:09 PM
#136
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Re: (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for a $300, 195HP Z6, this is not going to happen. Take a look at the math to determine the REAL cost of a Z6 that is going to put out anywhere close to that level of power.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
06-08-2004, 03:16 PM
#137
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Re: (builthatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
AWESOME ******* numbers man
mod list?
06-08-2004, 03:50 PM
#138
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Re: (builthatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what mods, please list and what did you run on the 1/4?
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what mods, please list and what did you run on the 1/4?
06-08-2004, 04:53 PM
#139
Member
Re: (builthatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by builthatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah i know Builthatch is just running a VAFC right now but he should make a decent amount more power one he gets his engine tuned with a real computer.
What is it that you've got ready Built?
Vince
I think you meant $3000 and it has happened...time and time again since the mid-late 90's...
consider, for instance, my past peak number of 164 whp with my Y8...or Nathan Tasukon (on JG's website) very similar build of a Z6 @ 160 whp...take 195 hp, subtract 15.5% for driveline loss, and you get 164 whp...
math is magic
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah i know Builthatch is just running a VAFC right now but he should make a decent amount more power one he gets his engine tuned with a real computer.
What is it that you've got ready Built?
Vince
06-08-2004, 05:18 PM
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Re: (skelly ed666)
some of us are not fortunate enough to live in a highly populated honda perfomance part car lots, so we take our little ole D's and make them run just as well and sometimes better,quicker and faster then a B. Much props to anyone just finding parts here and there, off this car and that one, throwing them together and getting some nice numbers. I know hondas are already light but have all the b series guys forgot about power to weight ratio also?
06-08-2004, 05:18 PM
#141
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Re: (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's just it. The guy says that the motor is pretty much completely stock except for compression that has been raised from 9.6:1 to 12.5:1. I don't know if he has an intake or exhaust. But he says he doesn't even have a header. A D16Z6/D16Y8 produces about 105HP,95ft-lb torque to the wheels bone stock. With i/h/e, this increases by about 10HP, 10ft-lb torque to about 115HP, 105ft-lb torque. But raising compression by 3 points is NOT going to get you 33HP,20ft-lb torque. I GREATLY question those dyno charts. In fact, they look suspiciously like a Y8 with a Jackson Racing supercharger to me, both in terms of power/torque levels as well as the shapes of the curves. And I think that is what they are. Because 148WHP, 125ft-lb torque is NOT happening with those mods.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Dude, You really, and I mean really, sit down and cool off.
I would like to see the math and FREAKING FACTS that you are using to call me a lier.
Those numbers and the mods here mentioned are a FACT. Not speculation or bullshit.
The Dyno graph is FREAKING real and the car is FREAKING daily driven.
Sorry if that puts your panties in a crunch, but it's the truth.
I would like to see your credentials (college related) and some actual, true and verifiable information, to disprove the FACTS that have been copied here from the other forum where I originally posted about the engine.
I don't see why you have to stir so much crap.
Good bye and good luck.
Please will somebody lock this sorry *** thread
Dude, You really, and I mean really, sit down and cool off.
I would like to see the math and FREAKING FACTS that you are using to call me a lier.
Those numbers and the mods here mentioned are a FACT. Not speculation or bullshit.
The Dyno graph is FREAKING real and the car is FREAKING daily driven.
Sorry if that puts your panties in a crunch, but it's the truth.
I would like to see your credentials (college related) and some actual, true and verifiable information, to disprove the FACTS that have been copied here from the other forum where I originally posted about the engine.
I don't see why you have to stir so much crap.
Good bye and good luck.
Please will somebody lock this sorry *** thread
06-08-2004, 05:27 PM
#142
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Re: (evanowens)
i love a honda just as much as the next guy but VTEC IS NOT ALL ITS CRACKED UP TO BE! Taek a non vtec head, increase flow and allow for more volume in and out, use an agressive cam and what do you have? pretty much a vtec motor that doesnt have to wait untill after 4k to pull. Say what you will, I have seen ZC's moded and built almost, repeat almost idendtically aliketo a b16a running n/a, with the only real noticable difference in torque numbers, and that was only 10ft. lbs. With the powerband starting at the same rpm on both motors.
06-08-2004, 06:07 PM
#143
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Re: (ceLtic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ceLtic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what mods, please list and what did you run on the 1/4? </TD></TR></TABLE>
sure-
'99 y8
.5 over p29 pistons w/ polished tops
shotpeened y8 rods
micropolished y8 crank
balanced to 10K and TRUELY blueprinted ; )
Apexi 1.5mm headgasket
Ported/Polished y8 head with nice n' smooth cc edges
Crower springs/ retainers/ Stage 2 cam
DC 4-2-1 prototype header ; )
DC CAI
Apexi N1
Apexi PowerFC ; )
Apexi Super Ground/Voltage system
blah blah blah blah...
Keep in mind...the FC and many of these parts are not necessary and can be substituted, and you will still get mondo power.
Just gotta get the right combo of stuff, SYNERGY is KEY!
Regarding 1/4 mile time, at this stage in the game, I pretty much am over drag racing, however, once the FC is fully tuned I might venture to Atco or something silly...
My car is simple transportation w/o a car payment...racing is not in the cards, 'cept maybe taking out the occasional fratboy shoobie comin' down to my town from PA in his brand new G35 : )
</TD></TR></TABLE>sure-
'99 y8
.5 over p29 pistons w/ polished tops
shotpeened y8 rods
micropolished y8 crank
balanced to 10K and TRUELY blueprinted ; )
Apexi 1.5mm headgasket
Ported/Polished y8 head with nice n' smooth cc edges
Crower springs/ retainers/ Stage 2 cam
DC 4-2-1 prototype header ; )
DC CAI
Apexi N1
Apexi PowerFC ; )
Apexi Super Ground/Voltage system
blah blah blah blah...
Keep in mind...the FC and many of these parts are not necessary and can be substituted, and you will still get mondo power.
Just gotta get the right combo of stuff, SYNERGY is KEY!
Regarding 1/4 mile time, at this stage in the game, I pretty much am over drag racing, however, once the FC is fully tuned I might venture to Atco or something silly...
My car is simple transportation w/o a car payment...racing is not in the cards, 'cept maybe taking out the occasional fratboy shoobie comin' down to my town from PA in his brand new G35 : )
06-08-2004, 08:29 PM
#144
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Re: (StorminMatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Okay. I guess I should say that there are no performance advantages above and beyond ground clearance. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess the fact that SOHC engines have less mass to rotate, less frictional losses, and weight about 75-100 lbs less overall doesn't count. Not to mention that the valve angles of a SOHC motor allow it to have a more radical lift cam than the DOHC motors.
Okay. I guess I should say that there are no performance advantages above and beyond ground clearance. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I guess the fact that SOHC engines have less mass to rotate, less frictional losses, and weight about 75-100 lbs less overall doesn't count. Not to mention that the valve angles of a SOHC motor allow it to have a more radical lift cam than the DOHC motors.
06-09-2004, 01:37 PM
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Re: (RyanCivic2000)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RyanCivic2000 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I guess the fact that SOHC engines have less mass to rotate, less frictional losses, and weight about 75-100 lbs less overall doesn't count. Not to mention that the valve angles of a SOHC motor allow it to have a more radical lift cam than the DOHC motors. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Shhhhh.. don't let the cat out of the bag...
I guess the fact that SOHC engines have less mass to rotate, less frictional losses, and weight about 75-100 lbs less overall doesn't count. Not to mention that the valve angles of a SOHC motor allow it to have a more radical lift cam than the DOHC motors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>Shhhhh.. don't let the cat out of the bag...
06-09-2004, 09:57 PM
#146
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Re: (infinatenexus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Shhhhh.. don't let the cat out of the bag... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Jesus powers my Honda!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Jesus powers my Honda!
06-10-2004, 04:02 AM
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Re: (rice_classic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rice_classic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Jesus powers my Honda! </TD></TR></TABLE>
Ha-Satan powers mine
Jesus powers my Honda!
</TD></TR></TABLE>Ha-Satan powers mine
06-10-2004, 05:48 AM
#148
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (infinatenexus)
Someguy said the Si tranny was crappy.
I dont think so.
it is a very good tranny, and there are a lot of them out there. I guess the same goes for b series.
But as usual things for 2 cams cost mre than things for 1 cam.
anyway
The si tranny has a 4.2 fianl drive. Get a 4.7 or 4.9 from SRR and you have a mean tranny.
I might do this one day.
But first Im getting some Rotas!
I dont think so.
it is a very good tranny, and there are a lot of them out there. I guess the same goes for b series.
But as usual things for 2 cams cost mre than things for 1 cam.
anyway
The si tranny has a 4.2 fianl drive. Get a 4.7 or 4.9 from SRR and you have a mean tranny.
I might do this one day.
But first Im getting some Rotas!
06-10-2004, 07:34 AM
#149
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Re: (infinatenexus)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by infinatenexus »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Shhhhh.. don't let the cat out of the bag... </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think it just went way over StorminMatt's head anyways. He never seems to respond after he says what he THINKS is right and then I state FACTS.
Shhhhh.. don't let the cat out of the bag...
</TD></TR></TABLE>I think it just went way over StorminMatt's head anyways. He never seems to respond after he says what he THINKS is right and then I state FACTS.
06-10-2004, 10:04 AM
#150
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Re: 148whp on a SOHC and more tq then a b16 :) (ceLtic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ceLtic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">wouldnt it be "safer" to get new bearings and some forged rods? i mean....a rod went through my d15 at 130mph and it wasnt even boosted. </TD></TR></TABLE>
d15 rods are particularly weak vs their d16 counter parts. d
16 rods, when prepped properly with shotpeening and/ or cryo, and equipped with stronger rod bolts, are more than adequate to handle rather extreme NA abuse...
</TD></TR></TABLE>d15 rods are particularly weak vs their d16 counter parts. d
16 rods, when prepped properly with shotpeening and/ or cryo, and equipped with stronger rod bolts, are more than adequate to handle rather extreme NA abuse...