deadazleep

I have a 93 civic with factory AC but when i got the car it had no compressor. I picked up a 1994 del sol compressor and no matter what i do it wont seal, new o-rings for the low side hose. It leaks where the hose goes into the compressor. Do the hoses from a 93 not work with a 94 compressor? Honda changed the hose part number from 93 to 94. Anyone with any first hand experience or info would be appreciated, thanks

94EG8

You can't use an R134a compressor or refigerant with R12 components. It has to be all one or the other, all of it. Your best bet is to pull all the A/C stuff out of a '94 - '95 civic.

deadazleep

so from what your saying there is no way to convert a r12 system to r134a without ripping everything out? that isnt right

z6hatchboy

94EG8 is right. The lines for r12 and r134a have there own sizes on everything that are different. So you cant possibly mix them and mix refrigerants (standards set by EPA). Just get a retrofit kit.

deadazleep

so the hoses are different sizes on both ends so to simplify things, get a r12 compressor and sell the r134a and convert a FULL r12 system to use r134a refrigerant and oil

94EG8

Theres more to it than just the hoses being different sizes. R134a refridgerant will leak through hoses designed for R12, they also use different oils in the refigerant that aren't compatible (IE if you run R134a in an R12 system you will ruin the compressor) ideally you would just find an R12 compressor and use R12, the only thing is R12 is pretty much impossible to get now.

deadazleep

but they make conversion kits and oil to make your r12 compressor compatible with the new r134a. Having to rip out everything to replace it all with r134a stuff doesnt seem that logical to me. Once they change the gas again, and they will, then everyone's gona be screwedif theres no way to convert their current set up

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Sort of, but not really. Your R134 compressor won't work with R12 lines, etc. Your simplest fix will be to get an R12 compressor and use R12. Next simplest is to use R12 compressor, but convert to using R134 refrigerant. This will involve flushing and changing O-rings, and probably some other stuff. There's kits for this apparently. Possibly tied with the above (since your refrigerant is discharged anyway), you could convert completely to R134 -- remove all lines and parts from a wrecked 94-95 Civic.

millese

I don't know where you live, but in az it is damn hot and doing a r12 to r134 conversion does not cut it here. Honda made the system with just the capacity it needed to be ice cold with r12. I did the 134a converison and it only would go about 25 degrees cooler than the ambient air temp. The condensor just doesn't have the capacity. I ended up buying a integra condensor having the high and low side a/c lines made up custom with the teflon barrier r134 lines and used my old r12 fittings and the thing blows 36 degree vent temps on 110 degree day, getting so cold the thermostat shuts the compressor off to prevent the evaperator from freezing up. It was a lot of work, so the idea of just buying a r134 system could be easier. Good luck!

Dekorum

You are completely right. I have the r12 to r134a conversion and it does NOT cut it here in Florida. I've had it for over 2 years and its annoying. I want to either get the full r134a setup or do what you did. Which one is more cost effective? Can you please tell me in detail, what setup you have?

And if I wanted to just buy a full r134a system, what would I need to buy exactly and from where?!

steve_8475

hmmm interesting

Dekorum

I can get a hold of some R12 cans. I'm thinking of refilling my system with R12 and taking off the conversion. That will, my air will be even colder than with a full r134a system. But what do I have to change in order to reverse the conversion? Besides draining the current r134a freon gas and taking off the adapter on the lines where the cap and gauges go, is there anything else?

forcefedeg01

all you need is matching components, r134 will cool just as good as r12 will, alot of people just buy a retro fit kit from r12 to r134 and charge it just like oem which therefore the system wont cool as it should. in order to have it cool just like r12 you have to take it to a shop to do it since the same amount of freon the system takes is very different amount than running r134. I have a license to buy any freon out there an have the equipment to do it myself and have yet to have a r12 system with r134 freon cool less than with the r12. sh*t, i once ran r22 in a ford conversion van my pops had yrs ago and it went down to 24degrees fahrenheit for yrs and i bet it still runs great to this date (shop didnt have r12 so i used some i had layin around after installing my dads central air lmao).

if you have r12 lines and such stick with the r12 compressor and have it flushed, full vacuumed checked and filled to the correct r134 requirements (oz.) and you wont have anything to complain about.

If a retrofitted r12-r134a system does not cool efficiently then it was not filled correctly, you should be able to pump out around 24-33degrees fahrenheit thru any air duct in your car when checked with a thermometer, my wife's jeep which i refilled with r134 has been holding for more than 4yrs and has yet to leak, temp thru ducts once the ducts cool off from sitting in the sun is around 29degrees

Dekorum

I think you're wrong dude. I've been to A/C shops and they obviously filled it correctly. Retrofits just can not cool properly. The guy told me that if I use R12 freon and get rid of the adapter for the r134a then my A/C will be much colder.

Cynical 1

there is A LOT of misinformation in this thread.

refer to or google Honda TSB - 95-020 for the retrofit procedures. or, look here: http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/jo...645_wipers.pdf

a lot of the "not cooling" is due to improper oil or refrigerant charge. no, you don't need to change ac lines. heck, you don't even need to change the o-rings in most cases.

do the research before you post if you are unsure...

forcefedeg01

retrofits are just line adapters to be able to hook up the r134 lines to vacuum and fill the system, the freon stays the same (r134a) if one cannot get a r12 system to cool with r134 as it should then id go elsewhere. I have had Refrigeration License for the past 8yrs and have yet to encounter a 134 charged system to not cool like r12. sometimes "instructions and charts" tell you one thing when it should be done differently. plust shops use a calibrated machine that "charges it correctly" tho in reality i have used a couple of them and me doing it manually with mechanical "old school" gauges i get better results.

Cynical 1 is on point also

kixome

I know this is a bit late but i must say that the myth of r12 components not working with r-134a is a complete lie.

NOTE: as well as the following instructions for a 94 compressor you must have different size bolts for the a/c pressure lines and some washers.

You should change your compressor to the 94 r-134a compressor but that is it. They purposely make the lines not fit the compressor. The high side is the one that wont fit. The low side will seal just fine. If it doesn't then ad an o ring to it. Mine fit with no modification. 10 years no leaks

You will have to rig the high side and there are two ways to do this.

First you can clean the compressor and the fitting on the hose and use a hole saw to make a 1mm deep groove for an o-ring to be compressed in on the compressor and the hoses aluminum fitting, This is the harder yet best way to do it.

I however chose the easy way. I took the high side and cleaned it with alcohol and sealed it to the comp with JB WATER WELD. IT MUST BE WATER WELD AS IT IS OIL RESISTANT AND WILL WITHSTAND 900 PSI EASILY.

You simply roll it into a log and fit it around the 8 shaped fitting all the way around the bolt hole and all. You do put it around the pressure fitting in a full circle as well as the same around the bolt fitting in a full circle.

As far as the rest of the components it is an industry lie that they won't work with r134a. This is to get you to spend more money.

I have been running a 134a compressor on r12 lines since 2002 soon to be 10 years and never had a problem not even a leak and always have the coldest air. The reason i changed compressors was that my r12 comp locked up with a full charge still in the lines. Good luck and god speed.

kixome

no they are both wrong. there is only one fitting you need if your compressor is still working otherwise read my post above. you only need the fitting that makes the can of r134a fit on the low side a/c line.

autozone for 5-10 bucks

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

^ Interesting. So you are saying that, for example, a R12 evaporator will work fine on a R134a system? What if someone wanted to install an R134a evap that has a cabin filter (see my DIY on this in sig) into their R12 system. This would function properly? (Same size bolts, etc.)

speedjunkie_g35

I actually have a r 12 condenser and high pressure line on my 94. It is a temp fix.I used a much larger o ring and it sealed at the compressor. It won't hold full pressure but like I said it was temporary until I could find a r134 condenser

speedjunkie_g35

What they are getting at is r 12 lines are a different diameter than r134 therefore you cant mix and match, which is true from personal experience. I was able to temporarily mod my ac to work posted above after doing a b swap in my eg6.

rountreesj

you guys in these forums are pretty funny. if your car is r12, its best to stay with that. dont convert. fix the problem and then recharge.

r134 is a more efficient refrigerant, thus it can "soak up" more heat. the problem is, it won't release that heat at the condenser in an r12 car as well; ESPECIALLY not a civic with r12, because the condensers are already marginally at best because of their smaller size.

people are constantly giving bad advice and telling others to just convert. in HOT states with high humidity, you will not be happy.

if the compressor is shot, replace it with the proper one. then recharge with r12. it's not illegal. its just illegal to manufacture it anymore. one has to have a special license to obtain and use it. many "reputable" shops do not have the license and so they do conversions to r134a to make money.

in other cars with full size condensers, a retrofit can work, but even then, a full system flush and oil change along with the adapter fittings and sticker note of retrofit is protocol. also, the r134a refrigerant has smaller particles and would leak through the hoses used for r12. also the molecules are smaller, so it takes more compressing to compress them into the condenser. this seems to make less sense, because the smaller particles should go into the condenser easier right, however they are smaller and harder for the compressor to pump. sooo, your r12 compressor will get over-strained and wear out prematurely.

hoses will simply not work from one to another on our civics because the fittings are different sizes. the actual functionality of a smaller or bigger hose is not the issue. also the expansion valve was set up to meter one or the other. but actual hoses etc., you could wrap custom hoses around your car if you wanted to, and they would not effect the system very much.

r134a will NEVER work AS well on a stock r12 system as r12 will. end of story, any one who says otherwise is lieing.

kixome

I have not been watching this post sorry, If need info about my posts hit me up at kixome on yahoo messenger or kixome4@gmail.com. Read all my posts before asking questions as i am still running an r134 comp with an r-12 system on my 93. if u want pics i will post them. As for the last poster, he is an idiot. Anyone who quotes the stupid line that particles are smaller is just below a 6th grade level IQ. Air tight is air tight and particle size does not matter. Corrosiveness matters but r134 is no more corrosive than r-12 and all seals are working fine for me. Black or green will work as long as the instructions are followed that i gave. If you need elaboration on the instructions i would be happy to speak with you so get in touch with me in the ways posted at top. Furthermore my wife has a 99 with a full r134a (obviously) A/C and she swears up and down than mine freezes her out whilst the 99 barely keeps her kool with a full charge.

Anyone who says anything about particle size is below the basic intelligence level of a 6th grade child. Further i rarely check this post so hit me up if the need arises.

jbpnoman

So you have a background in micromeritics? I'm sure you do. Tetra Fluoroethane (R134A) DOES have a smaller molecular size than Dichlorodifluoromethane (R12). R134A has a molecular mass of ~102 g/mo. R12 has a molecular mass of ~120g/mo. I know this off the top of my head. Please, tell me about my 6th grade education.

A correctly done retrofit at MINIMUM requires a full FLUSH of the system (not just an evap and refil), and also requires a replacement of the filter/drier. Oil used to lubricate R12 systems is NOT compatible with oils used to lubricate R134A systems. Using an R409A retrofit makes the whole process easier, because it is soluble with the same oils used for R12. If you're just "replacing the fill nipple", you're doing it wrong.

If you're going to personally attack other members of this forum, you might want to make sure you have all of your information 100% correct before doing so.

aqeelrizni

Hi i have done a similar installation to yours. Car is a 1993 Honda Civic EG4 with a B16B swap. I got the complete AC system from an Civic EG 1992 which is using the R12 system and did not have a compressor. I used a b20 compressor (R134a) and installed everything at an AC shop. New condenser was installed and evaporator cleaned. All leaks and seals were checked and installed. The AC does not seem to be as great as I would like it. The AC technician is saying because the AC compressor (R134A) is high pressure on the R12 system, the cooling is not as effective.Any advice or tips to what pressure the system should hold? and anything else i can check to improve the cooling?

thank you