stevanrk

Here are my numbers from my last alignment. All are in degrees and done by the NTB that I always go to. I recently did a complete integra swap for brakes and nothing looked bent.
These are all AFTER the alignment and I'm still puylling left just like before.

FRONT LEFT:
Camber -0.9
Caster 0.6
Toe 0.01
SAI 2.4
Included angle 1.5


FRONT RIGHT:
Camber -1.2
Caster 0.4
Toe 0.00
SAI 17.8
Included angle 16.6


FRONT
Cross camber 0.2
Cross caster 0.2
Cross SAI -15.4
Total toe 0.00

REAR LEFT:
camber -0.2
toe 0.04

REAR RIGHT
camber -0.4
toe 0.06

REAR
Cross camber 0.3
Total toe 0.1
thrust angle -0.01

That's it. Do any of these values result in pulling left? My brakes are not binding. Tires are in need of replacing but I want to make sure I fix the suspension before putting a fresh set and burning them through. Biggest number I am seeing is the right fron SAI and the Cross SAI but I don't know how to interpret if they are ok or not. Thanks in advance to anyone.
Steve


Modified by stevanrk at 4:07 PM 9/29/2008

batallic

how are yur ball joints, tie rods

redline870

you could have a radial pull from your tires. try switching them side to side and see if it changes. if you have directional tires then rotate them front to back. let me know how it works out for ya

1990_integra_DA9

your car will pull to the side with the most POSITVE camber. so try lowering your right side with the -1.2. But get a camber kit. Unless you have one already. Both sides are a little excesivly negative that will wear tires. So, try lets say, postive both sides camber. Make the right side .2 and the left at zero. That should adjust for road crown and you wont have any tire wear. You may need re-adjust your toe after

stevanrk

Wow thanks for the quick replies. I will try the tire switch and let yawl know. The front upper control arms with ball joints are brand new and NON adjustable. The lower ball joints are also brand new when I put the swap spindles in. The steering joints did not have any free play so I did not replace them. I don't like the fact that my front right camber is out of spec in the negative. -1.0 is the most it should be, but it's -1.2. What about the huge difference in the SAI numbers?
Steve

redline870

steering axis inclination? i dont think that would cause a pull but with that huge of a difference, then maybe. i wonder why its so different bent strut rod, steering knuckle, or somethin? im not sure ill ask my boss about it tomorrow

Dc4iNtEgRa

I allways thought camber doesn't wear tires, toe does... Correct me if im wrong?

gsrhatch2356

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by redline870 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you could have a radial pull from your tires. try switching them side to side and see if it changes. if you have directional tires then rotate them front to back. let me know how it works out for ya</TD></TR></TABLE>

X2

redline870

yeah ur wrong the only non tire wearing alignment angle is caster. camber does effect tire wear especially with low profile tires

batallic

camber does wear tires, but not as much as toe

stevanrk

OK so I just swapped the front tires and low and behold, the car now drifts to the right. OK so hopefully when I get new tires all should be good. BUT, the big difference in SAI numbers and my front right camber out of spec are still going to bother me especially from a wear issue. Any thoughts on this? Thanks redline for checking with your boss tomorrow, I'm eagerly waiting.
Steve

alphalanos

They could have gotten your camber a little closer to each other. If your tires are worn already into a bad alignment pattern then your car will pull. Mine still does after alignment. Some negative camber in front is good for handling. The main thing to watch for is toe. I think we spent like 30 min on my car, had to adjust camber twice to get it at -1.8 each side and toe to 0.01 each side.

stevanrk

My upper control arm is non adjustable so I'm stuck with this camber in the front correct?

redline870

so i did a little research on my own for u and the cause of bad sai numbers is most likely bent parts. has the car slammed any curbs or been in any accidents? im willing to bet you have a bent steering knuckle, lower control arm, or strut rod. i doubt that the strut tower is bent unless the car has been in an accident. are you doing the alignment yourself? if so, when the car is on the alignment rack open your hood and twist the strut rod around (usually there is something like a bolt head or allen head at the top of the strut rod) and watch the numbers on the computer. if the sai numbers change as you spin the strut rod, then the strut rod is bent. usually this process only applies to the typical mcpherson strut suspension when camber is adjustable where the stut mounts to the knuckle. if not then i bet the steering knuckle is bent. the only reason i would think the knuckle is bent over the lower control arm is because the knuckle has a weak point below where it connects to the upper ball joint. it already has a bend in it at this point and during the compression of a large pot hole or curb is very susceptible to bending further. not to mention the lower control arm is very thick steel and only pivots up and down not creating much compression on the part itself. let me know how this plays out for u. i hope this helps

redline870

o and large variances in sai numbers will cause the car to pull to one side at low speeds

redline870

yup after looking at ur number some more i'd be willing to bet the pink slips on my car that u have a bent right front steering knuckle. i didnt even pay attention to your included angle variances. included angles must be same from side to side even if the camber varies. if not then 99% of the time its because of a bent knuckle.

stevanrk

Thanks redline. I'm getting alignments done at NTB and the bent knuckle is a possibility because it's from an integra which MAY have ben in an accident. My civic never was as far as I know and I never had this problem before the swap sooooo...This basically sucks. At least if I find another knuckle at a junk yard I can swap that out and not worry about rebuilding the brakes and lines and ****. The lower ball joint was not fun though and I don't really want to replace that again. Oh well. Thanks again.
Steve

lylballero8o

double check your suspension parts. If your suspension parts are not bent then you can have a radial pull. (tire pull) if you want to eliminate this go ahead and rotate tires front to back or left to right and see if the pull goes away. for example you say it pulls left then swap the front left to the right and see if the pull goes away or pulls to the left. if it pulls to the left still then we can check for possible causes. (hopefully this will you)

stevanrk

lylballero8o, I did that above in this thread and the pull switched sides so I DO have a radial pull. That wouldn't cause the weird SAI numbers though would it? The other weird thing is that I found another alignment sheet for my car from NTB that was also AFTER the brake swap and the SAI and included angles were within a degree of each other unlike now where there is 15 degrees difference. I have not been in an accident with this brake swap so I am back to thinking this whole situation is weird again. The printout where the SAI numbers were close to each other was about two weeks ago and the one I posted was yesterdays. What else screws your SAI and included angle numbers other than bent parts?
Thanks again
Steve

instructor74

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stevanrk &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The printout where the SAI numbers were close to each other was about two weeks ago and the one I posted was yesterdays. What else screws your SAI and included angle numbers other than bent parts?
Thanks again
Steve</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only other thing that might cause that and this is a long shot (and might or might not) would be a worn out lca bushing. You might want to take the car back in with both print outs and ask them to rerack the car and have them dubble check the SAI could be something as simple as human error

B16SolMan

Could be tire pressure--don't know if anyone said this or not, a lot to read through.

stevanrk

tire pressure is equal all around. I have at least a radial pull in the front and possible bent knuckle. I just called the NTB that did the job and they said as long as the toe and stuff is fine then yo0u shouldn't have a problem. They even (stupidly?) said that SAI doesn't mean anything. I tried to explain that it could meana bent part and that if there is still enough thread left on the adjustment parts that you could still get everything back into spec, but that would be masking a problem. Anyways, I will call some other NTBs and see. This one, in my opinion, does not know enough, but acts as if they do.
Steve

redline870

radial pull should not effect these angles. low tire pressure should only effect the scrub radius and included angle but not the sai. sai and included angles will not effect tire wear but can definately effect the handling so the shop probably said that because they didnt want to deal with it. to have those angles be so far off in only a two week period does lead me to believe it was human error. hopefully the human error was the second alignment you got and not the first one. maybe they didnt set the lift on the locks so the lift wasnt level, maybe one of the alignment racks bearing plates was seized, im not really sure. take it to a different shop or perhaps the dealer. or like someone else mentioned maybe a bad lca bushing. let us know how it turns out. o and by the way steering axis inclination can not be adjusted


Modified by redline870 at 8:30 PM 9/30/2008

redline870

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by lylballero8o &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">double check your suspension parts. If your suspension parts are not bent then you can have a radial pull. (tire pull) if you want to eliminate this go ahead and rotate tires front to back or left to right and see if the pull goes away. for example you say it pulls left then swap the front left to the right and see if the pull goes away or pulls to the left. if it pulls to the left still then we can check for possible causes. (hopefully this will you)</TD></TR></TABLE> is that not exactly what i said but phrased a little different?

stevanrk

I will try and take it to another NTB for a quick check to see. Then the best two out of three SAI numbers will be it. Thanks again guys. Will hopefully update you tomorrow.
Steve