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Old 07-24-2008, 09:36 AM   #1
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Default Oil turn black almost immediately!

Here's the problem, I change the oil in my car, and after like 1000 K's (not miles) it turns black like a diesel. I change my oil with AMSOIL 1030, and my cars does burn a lot of oil, but why does it turn dark so fast? Anybody ever had this problem? I've tried switching oils many many times, but nothing. I know my valve seals need to be replaced as well, but should that affect the oil color? My friend thinks that it could be something with my car running rich or lean (which could be connected to one of my other problems: ) but I am not sure. Any help would be awesome!

BTW: no CELS except for a one cause I don't have a cat on my car.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

here's the link to my other problem I forgot to post: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2350672
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:46 AM   #3
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

The colour of the oil does not represent how much life it has left. If you're using a decent filter and following reasonable change intervals, you will be fine.

How many kilometers are on the car?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:48 AM   #4
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Your car is burning oil, which means carbon is making its way to your crank case. Thats why your oil is black.
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<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know dat if u crack the solenoid it will hit hard and make vtec louder..</TD></TR></TABLE>

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Old 07-24-2008, 09:51 AM   #5
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Default Re: (OMGWTFBBQ!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Padawan
The colour of the oil does not represent how much life it has left. If you're using a decent filter and following reasonable change intervals, you will be fine.

How many kilometers are on the car?
I know that. I diesel is a perfect example. The oil literally turns black after it's being started up, but obviously all the additives still remain. I use a pennzoil filter and change the oil like every 2K because I hate seeing my oil black. It has about 180K (not miles)
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:53 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by OMGWTFBBQ!
Your car is burning oil, which means carbon is making its way to your crank case. Thats why your oil is black.
What's pretty much what I thought, but I wasn't 100% sure. Do you think if I replaced my valve seals and it stopped burning most the oil, it wouldn't turn black as fast?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:57 AM   #7
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Probably.
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Originally Posted by EJuno
can u ground the VTEC solenoid, to make VTEC crack louder?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know dat if u crack the solenoid it will hit hard and make vtec louder..</TD></TR></TABLE>

http://www.tamparacing.com/for....html
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: (SOHC_civic_si)

AMSOIL 1030 ain't cheap either,i would run thicker oil until you stop the oil burning for 2 reasons.You have to put less in and the money you save not buying amsoil you can put toward valve seals.Speaking form experience i had a similar case except i use royal purple and my rings were gone.$10 a bottle adds up quick Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:12 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by redef90si
AMSOIL 1030 ain't cheap either,i would run thicker oil until you stop the oil burning for 2 reasons.You have to put less in and the money you save not buying amsoil you can put toward valve seals.Speaking form experience i had a similar case except i use royal purple and my rings were gone.$10 a bottle adds up quick Click the image to open in full size.
1030 is already a decently think oil to begin with, I don't have much choice as to go thicker, unless I wanted to dip into diesel rated oils (1540, etc.) AMSOIL isn't expensive for me when I work at an oil change shop and get it at half the cost Click the image to open in full size.

I think I will change the seals and see where I stand
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:37 AM   #10
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wow, oil turns black.... really?!??!?!?!?!?!?

lol?
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by instrument
wow, oil turns black.... really?!??!?!?!?!?!?

lol?
I was actually going to get pissed of at you, but then I read your sig

My oil turns black after short periods of driving, not after 5K or however long you go like it should. I would know, I used to work at a lube shop.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:17 PM   #12
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anything i ever owned that burned copious amounts of oil the oil would turn black almost immediately, didn't matter if it was a lawnmower. If its really burning a lot of oil, quart a week or more just dump whatevers cheap in it, its not gonna stay in there long enough to break down anyway.
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: (SOHC_civic_si)

Burning oil is one thing and carbon contamination is another. if you had bad valve seals you would see alot of smoke under deaccel cause of the massive vacuum placed on the valve seals. most of the time black oil is due to bad rings cause during the compression stroke more gas gets by the rings then what is supposed to. a easy confirmation is to do a compression test and compare it to oem specs.
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Old 07-24-2008, 08:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (Mrs.CtrEg6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsrhatch2356
Burning oil is one thing and carbon contamination is another. if you had bad valve seals you would see alot of smoke under deaccel cause of the massive vacuum placed on the valve seals. most of the time black oil is due to bad rings cause during the compression stroke more gas gets by the rings then what is supposed to. a easy confirmation is to do a compression test and compare it to oem specs.
I thought that bad valve seals are a sign when you blow a lot of blue smoke under accel? Is a compression test something easy I could do myself (I am pretty mechanically knowledgeable- just never heard much about compression tests)

My friends have told me that when I start up my car and rev it high, or rev it high when driving, it blows a lot of blue out. Is that leaning more towards rings or valve seals.
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Old 07-25-2008, 04:14 AM   #16
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

smoke at higher rpms is more likely your rings. You continue to post bout how **** you are about the color of your oil. Black means dirt or carbon in the oil you really need to do some reading and think about putting more oil filtration on you engine check out these links

http://www.utterpower.com/oil.htm
http://www.wefilterit.com/
http://www.powerstrokedatabase.com/read.php?id=24
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Old 07-25-2008, 06:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

A compression test is easy enough to do, but it seems to me that you dont really need to do it cause you know that you are burning oil so if I were you I would start saving for a long block or a swap asap. smoke coming out could during accel could be coming from the valve seals but they would really have to be shot. and you still wouldnt get oil that turns black immeditaly. so get a motor soon or you will soon enough be broken down on the side of the road. fyi dont rev your motor and you might get a little bit more out of it.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (gsrhatch2356)

Yeah I honestly think it would be pointless to do that after reading all this its definately 100% my rings. I don't think my motor will blow on me I don't rev it at like 7 grand in every gear more so just up to around 4 so I have a little more power when driving around. Everything else on the car is fine and I always top up the oil when its low so I think it will last me for awhile. but in the mean time i will save up for a b18b swap then i can blow the junker y7
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (SOHC_civic_si)

I normally would call you an idiot in that oil turning black doesn't represent the life it has...but I don't think you'd accept that as an answer.

You need a new engine.

Not a swap, BRAND NEW - EVERY PART.


Okay, seriously, at 180 kil your engine is not going to remain 100% - that's what we we refer to as "longevity" - or the life span it has.

Think about it this way - you can take a full glass of water, and put only a few drops of food coloring in there and the whole color will change and it'll look like blueberry juice after being stirred. Though when you taste it it'll still taste mostly like water - with a faint hint of something else. It's the same with your engine. At 180k kilometers it's not going to be 100%, and the fact that you're burning oil means that environmental factors (dirt) is getting in there as well - but it's so minimal that it will have no effect on your car.

It's not a big deal, but if you chose to be **** about it, swap every seal that oil touches (including the rings) - that should fix your problem.
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Old 07-27-2008, 04:22 AM   #20
 
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (Syndacate)

After reading your other post, I say it's your rings.
I had an Integra that did the things described in your other post.
If you go the ring route, make sure you send your head in for the works...
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Old 07-27-2008, 06:41 AM   #21
 
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (Azelas)

yessir, theres a guy about 30 mins away that builds race engines for
penski racing, im sure i could send my sohc head up to him and
let him do his thing, i don't have any experience tweaking on heads
but i hear dont polish intake side and make it kind of "swirl".
then port and polish the exhaust side so theres no resistance..
but yeah sry for whoring this thread.. but i would go replace
all gaskets run some lucas oil stabilizer and i hear royal purple
is really good oil..
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Oil turn black almost immediately! (Syndacate)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Syndacate
I normally would call you an idiot in that oil turning black doesn't represent the life it has...but I don't think you'd accept that as an answer.

You need a new engine.

Not a swap, BRAND NEW - EVERY PART.


Okay, seriously, at 180 kil your engine is not going to remain 100% - that's what we we refer to as "longevity" - or the life span it has.

Think about it this way - you can take a full glass of water, and put only a few drops of food coloring in there and the whole color will change and it'll look like blueberry juice after being stirred. Though when you taste it it'll still taste mostly like water - with a faint hint of something else. It's the same with your engine. At 180k kilometers it's not going to be 100%, and the fact that you're burning oil means that environmental factors (dirt) is getting in there as well - but it's so minimal that it will have no effect on your car.

It's not a big deal, but if you chose to be **** about it, swap every seal that oil touches (including the rings) - that should fix your problem.
Syndacate,

I will start by saying as a fellow H-T member, I respect you a great amount. Before I even got an account I would come on and read the posts and stuff, and have read a great deal of yours. Your obviously very knowledgeable about engines, and basically, you know your ****.

I know that oil color has nothing to do with it's life. I used to work at an oil change shop here in Edmonton called Econo Lube (and I do not think because I worked at a lube shop that I know every single thing about motors, but I did work there for over a year so I know some things), and I do know that the additives within the oil do remain well intact in my situation after 1K of driving, but the black oil just drives me crazy, as I'm kind of a perfectionist.

I see what your saying about a new engine, and I am hopefully buying an S2K when I graduate from college here in AB, but for now I am only 18 and still have 2 more years of schooling, and would like my car to last.

Maybe I deserved to be called an idiot, maybe I didn't, point is I am not trying to sound smarter than anyone on here and am just looking for help.
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Old 07-29-2008, 05:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: (SOHC_civic_si)

My homies car was doing the same thing and after like 500 miles it would be black, so we decided to put in new rings well then that lead to new pistons so all in all we ended up putting some type r pistons in with new rings and ever since the oil still looks brand new at 3k miles for oil change. We didnt even go as far as honing or anything just pulled the head and the pan and drop the pistons and new rings will get you going.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: (gsrhatch2356)

I honestly don't think thats the right thing to do. I've read around A LOT that if you rebuild the bottom end, you pretty much have to rebuild the head unless you want problems. That is also going to cost too much. I am just saying money for school and topping up my oil instead of a engine overhaul.
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Old 07-29-2008, 06:45 PM   #25
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Detergents in the oil will collect the varnish on the various parts in the engine. It will also absorb blow-by gases and combustion gases during its life. A oil that does not change color indicates either deposits are not present, or not dissolved. An oil filter does not catch everything, this is why it changes color. You also need to know, that not all oil is drained during a change, this is why there is a rebuild fill capacity, and one with, or without the filter. The single cams use a river of oil to lubricate the cam and rockers, that in itself accounts for about 1/4 to 1/3 of a quart.

Some blow-by leakage is planned by design. A piston ring does not 100% seal the combustion chamber from the crankcase. After a rebuild of course the engine oil color wont change much, everything has/should have been cleaned.

Of course deposits form for many reasons. Poor oil, overextended oil change intervals that lead to oil coking, worn rings/liners/sleeves. This is why we "change" the engine oil.

Lots of things contribute to this happening. Over time, deposits develop everywhere. Combustion is a nasty process, and I would much rather see the working fluid (oil) carry these contaminants to the filter, than see them built up in the oil pan/crankcase/head.

Bluish smoke is normally a byproduct of combusted oil, meaning the oil entered the chamber from leakage in the rings, or the intake valve stems. The valve seals don't "leak" per se, the guides mushroom out and allow the valve to wobble, breaking the seal (which will harden with age), and cause oil consumption. The vacuum in the intake actually pulls them shut. The white smoke is normally blamed on the exhaust guides, as significant pressures exist to open the seals due to pressure, and allow exhaust into the system, as well as oil in the exhaust, same cause as the intake side. Because the oil was not significantly heated, it only burns off partially, leaving a trail of white.

Most notable engine with that problem is the 3L Chrysler engine, the 6G72.
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