suspendedHatch

You people are putting drifting on a pedestal. It's not that hard for some idiot in a mostly stock car to figure out in a swap meet parking lot. It's not impossible in a FF, it's just hard to do well. With a FF, 80% of the technique happens before you enter the turn. You can't use the throttle to prolong or change the angle of the drift mid turn like you can with a rear wheel drive. The majority of the drifting initialization techniques don't apply to FF. But guess what, the ebrake technique is a valid and very common technique even with rear wheel drive cars.

Dive out wide into a turn at a good speed but not a ridiculous speed (too fast and you just slide outward). Whip the steering wheel out and in, at the same time pull and drop the e brake sharply. You're locking up the rear wheels to slide. You're using the steering wheel to maintain traction on the front tires. Your e brake has to be pretty tight, and again, it's a good idea to pull the spring out of that button. Now countersteer only enough to keep sliding. If you countersteer too much, you will straighten out. Throttle will also straighten you out.

Using the throttle or a tap on the brakes to flatten out the car is more advanced but it's something you need to keep in mind you when you want to keep your car drifting as long as possible.

Once you're somewhat experienced you know what you want from the car to make it easier to drift and suit your driving style. Now all you have to do is find out what modifications achieve those goals, buy some adjustable parts and experiment. ie "god I wish the ******* body wouldn't twist down the center when I'm trying to keep the back end in a flat slide" or "I think 500lb rear springs and a 26mm rear sway are causing my rear inside tire to lift completely off the ground."

You can philosophize about whether this is true drifting or argue the semantics of different terms all you want. The point is, if you saw it and didn't know the layout of the drivetrain, you would say "that car is drifting". The homosexuality part is when you take it too seriously. You know how I know that you're gay? Cuz you have all those JDM drift stickers on your car.

BTW I suck for consistancy but the whole point is to have some fun so who cares who's watching. It's not ice skating so **** perfection.

Have an extra set of rims and be prepared to constantly break stuff.

IHateJDM

Just go to mc donald's and steal 2 trays. put them behind the car. back up so the rear wheels are on them. Pull ebrake and drive. Make sure you're in a huge empty parking lot though.

VRD^sam

dude scerw drifting just go autoX....

SirRevvs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IHateJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just go to mc donald's and steal 2 trays. put them behind the car. back up so the rear wheels are on them. Pull ebrake and drive. Make sure you're in a huge empty parking lot though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

2 trays will burn up very quick if its not wet outside. You're going to need 4 taped together on both sides in the rear

kaiba

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IHateJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just go to mc donald's and steal 2 trays. put them behind the car. back up so the rear wheels are on them. Pull ebrake and drive. Make sure you're in a huge empty parking lot though. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RHD_FERIO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dude scerw drifting just go autoX....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you guys think they'll let me do that at AutoX during the fun run.

Seriously i'm gonna ask the scca official if i can do this. There is a practice run coming this weekend.

Econo'Box

The trays thing is fun. Just be sure there is absolutely nothing in the parking lot. Your car will have absolutly no control of the rear end once you start whipping it around. My friend showed me it it was kind of entertaining.

V8MeatHead

**** drifting. It's gay and can suck my *****

IHateJDM

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kaiba &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Do you guys think they'll let me do that at AutoX during the fun run.

Seriously i'm gonna ask the scca official if i can do this. There is a practice run coming this weekend.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I seriously doubt it. I wasn't allowed to run before because of my extended wheel studs. They said some BS reason about tearing up cones or something (like they really stick out that far). If extended studs are a problem, then you won't have a chance of running on trays.

Stinkycheezmonky

No, drifting is hugely frowned upon at most autocrosses. There are sort of "drift-crosses" available in some areas (NoVA for one).

BoOstedEM1

Wow drifting ff cars has been around for years. the guy he was reffering to that made it on 2005 with the falken ef hatch..yeah hes been pro for over 10 yrs...doing ff but he retired and drifters asked him to come back and drift in america...You dont need ebrake to drift ff cars also...He says that its not used..he uses front brake to iniciate and control the drift...its just about camber, toe, and suspension..he uses a steel suspension..which means welded steel rods instead of suspension in the rear...People that say you watch to much initial d...umm where do you think they got it from just popped up and said damn lets make a civic slide...plus in intial d ...the civic doesnt drift..well you can do it just do you want to have it as a daily driver or not...

RedEK9

iTrader: (1)

nice points being made!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IHateJDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just go to mc donald's and steal 2 trays. put them behind the car. back up so the rear wheels are on them. Pull ebrake and drive. Make sure you're in a huge empty parking lot though. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tabrisakakaoru &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The trays thing is fun. Just be sure there is absolutely nothing in the parking lot. Your car will have absolutly no control of the rear end once you start whipping it around. My friend showed me it it was kind of entertaining.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Do it if you'd like, but I would go with autox.

Kaji

To each his own. I would have to admit I would be very impressed with a FF pulling off a solid drift line. But I'll stick to what FF is best for, gripping.

white_raven

wow....ok seriously ppl dont you think i know that you NEED A FR to drift... I OWN A D-spec AE86 (Trueno) lol and thats completly done up for the down hill...i was just wondering if it possible to turn a civic into a Downhill machine. What the hell's with all the wise cracks????
Damn

Props to the ppl that seriously replied!! Thanks for the INFO..i'll let you know how it goes!!!

smokee

here is a great article and interview with the guy that drifts the EF. sponsership by a tire company for an FF drifter seems about as legit as it gets, imo.

edit: here is the vid they are talking about as well. http://www.personal.psu.edu/us...4.wmv

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Exclusive Interview: FF Drift Legend Keisuke Hatakeyama By Honda Tuning Magazine: 06/21/2005

We never thought we'd see the day when HT could justify an interview with a drifter. But in the wake of RS-R's success with its drift S2000, Honda has a place in the competitive drift world.

Then one day we searched online and found a video clip, narrated in Japanese, of this guy drifting an EF Civic. Not only was he drifting it, but he was also beating the Nissan he was going against. Whether this was actual competition, demo or just friendly sparring, we don't know. But the performance made an impression on us. Not only was this driver drifting, he was also controlling the car in a manner worthy of any top road racer (check out crabdrifting.com/pictures/cv4.wmv).

That guy turned out to be Keisuke Hatakeyama, a mild-mannered business owner from Akita City in northern Japan. The name rang a bell and we realized we'd seen Hatakeyama-san's EF hatch at the 2004 Tokyo Auto Salon, where it was emblazoned with his F Dori Style graphics (http://www.fdori-style.com). About six months later, we got word from folks at Falken that they'd bought Hatakeyama's car, planned to ship it over to the United States and set it up for drift demos with none other than the man himself behind the wheel.

We got some time to sit down with this truly underground legend of car control and drifting.

Honda Tuning:How did you get into FF drifting?
Keisuke Hatakeyama: When I was 20 years old I was drifting with Truenos and 180s like everyone else. One night I was drifting hard and totaled my car. I had no money, so I had to settle with what I could get my hands on at that time, which was a used 1.3-liter Civic. Automatic! (laughs). I bought it for 50,000 yen (about $500). I still wanted to drift so I took the Civic out and started drifting with it.

HONDA TUNING: So you just went out and starting drifting a FF?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: At first I couldn't, so I had to practice a lot in a parking lot with cones, like gymkhana (autocross). I went through about 300 tires in a year. First I had to use the e-brake, but later on I could do full turns without the side brakes. It's still the best way to practice how to drift an FF. I highly recommend it.

HONDA TUNING: You must have been a rare case drifting in a Civic.
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: Yeah, after I got better I started competing in drift contests organized by Japanese magazines and videos, like “Car Boy” and Option. I won the Car Boy "dori-con" (drift contest) and most of the local drift contests against 180s and Hachirokus with my Civic. I've gone through eight Civics since then. I had a sponsor and drifting was paying the bills.

HONDA TUNING: In the United States there's quite a bit of prejudice aimed at Honda people who try to drift. Many guys think "real" drifting is only Toyota and Nissan. Did you find this same attitude in Japan?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: Yes, but it didn't bother me. Actually, I was trying to outdo the FR guys with my FF. Yeah, there were guys with negative attitudes but my whole thing was to shut them up.

HONDA TUNING: You now have a deal with Falken Tires. Can you explain how that all came together?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: I took a break from drifting for about three years to start my own business and get married. My company installs air conditioning and ventilation systems. I couldn't devote my time to drifting because I was so busy, but then the business settled. I decided to get back into it late last year. Then out of the blue, Falken USA called me. Some Falken people saw me in an old drifting video and set out to find me. They brought me out of retirement!

HONDA TUNING: What are the terms of the deal? Will you be competing in U.S. drift events?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: I'm signed up to participate in all of the Falken Drift Showoff events next year, which should be about five or six times. I was just in Irwindale last month and showed Americans that you can drift in FF Civics.

HONDA TUNING: So no competitions?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: We're still in the works to compete in some kind of drift competition in the United States with the Falken team. It's still undecided, but I would love to compete.

HONDA TUNING: Now that you're back into it, will you continue drifting in Japan?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: After going to the United States and drifting at Formula Drift at Irwindale, I decided to make my place of activities there. The States is happening! You see, in Japan everyone wants to drift FR's. In America, drifting is still new and I see GTOs, Vipers and guys in pickup trucks trying to drift. OK, so they are still FR's of course, but I think there is less prejudice (in the States) toward people who do things differently. And drifting a Civic is definitely different. There used to be more people in Japan that drift FFs but now there aren't any.

HONDA TUNING: You might be surprised. Some people booed Rhys Millen when he first came out in his GTO. Some of these guys are not as open-minded as you might think. But coming back to your activities in the States, what do you hope to accomplish here?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: Well, I would really like to enter some competitions and win. [Falken] says Americans like to see FF drifting, so I think it's a good place for me. The Japanese scene is very competitive and you need serious backing from sponsors. It's a tough battle. I'm even thinking about moving to Los Angeles. Taro, what's the best way to learn English?


HONDA TUNING: The best way to learn English is find an American girlfriend the next time you visit and stop hanging out at Japanese hostess clubs in Torrance. I hate bumping into people I know there (pause, clears throat). Let's talk about technique for a minute. What about tire and suspension settings?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: You should raise air pressure in your rear tires to about 35 psi. Then make sure the rear wheels are toe-out, where the rear edges are closer than the front edges. Rear shocks should be soft but the springs should be hard. I use Tein shocks. I also use bigger wheels in the front than rear.

HONDA TUNING: And you're using an Integra engine in your Civic?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: Yes, it's a Type R engine. The extra power helps.

HONDA TUNING: One of the Falken guys told us they were planning to turbocharge your car.
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: Yes, it's being turbocharged by the Falken people for next year. The reason is to increase corner entry and exit speed. Compared to FR cars, FF cars can go side by side at the entry since it's only about how fast you can get it going before entering the corner. But FR cars have it easier at the exit so hopefully the turbo will help me cover that point.

HONDA TUNING: Can you explain your e-brake technique?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: The first thing is not to tune your e-brake so that it’s too sensitive. Some guys think they have to have the brakes ultratight to drift in FF cars but that's not true. You need to have a lot of slack until the e-brake fully kicks in at the very top. You need that partial braking zone so you can ride it. As for practice methods, start by practicing your turns using the e-brakes. When you start drifting, make sure you don't stop the rear tires with the side brakes. Just use the brakes to turn the direction of the car, not to stop the rear tires. That's just sliding your car with momentum.

HONDA TUNING: Why the EF Civic for drifting?
What about the Integra or CRX?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: The EF hatch is a better car for FF drifting because of its overall balance. Despite its light weight, the wheelbase is pretty long. The EF is actually longer than a Toyota Levin. When approaching a corner to drift, I can make the rear end slide out with only the brake pedal. The EF hatch is also good because its movement is very smooth. The Integra and CRX can be very sharp. The CRX especially is very twitchy. I can drift with an Integra but its tendency is to stay sideways once it starts drifting. It's hard to swing it back at the end of a turn.

HONDA TUNING: What are your thoughts and technique as you approach a typical corner and initiate a FF drift?
KEISUKE HATAKEYAMA: The entrance is the same as an FR. It all depends on how fast you can enter the corner and throw the tail out sideways. You adjust your drift and cornering angle with the gas and steering. When you reach the clipping point, you use the gas and tap the e-brake to maintain the drift. Exit the drift on the gas and tapping on the e-brake once again. All of this must happen without lifting off the gas. Your foot should be on the gas the whole time, either at full or half-throttle.


--courtsey of Honda Tuning Magazine-- </TD></TR></TABLE>

INEEDMONEY900

interesting, what would the benefit of downhill drifting be over a grip setup?

kingSfit

DRIFTING.... go handle the CANyons

oooitzcreeperz

drifting is pretty easy

TorganFM.

Wide tires on front, skinnies on back, big front swaybar, strong rear springs, take all weight out of the trunk, relocate the fuel take to the front passenger seat via fuel cell. This reduces rear weight and balances the left and right better.

JDM Vision

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Deemeetree &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wait until it rains, pull the e-brake. Done.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i do that sometimes ... also try fast food trays just put them under ur rear tire and pull the E and hope u dont hit anything

white_raven

SO basically the EG6 can be turned into a downhill monster... so now that we got that out of the way...where do we start modifying it???

Stiffening the Chassis/Frame
New Suspension

I need some ideas ppl!!

Stinkycheezmonky

Other than that, you're not gonna get much help, since none of us have ever done anything like that on a professional/semi-professional level. We're limited to the parking lot shenanigans. If anything, follow that Falken dude's setup, though that sounds like it'd be completely unstreetable (solid rear suspension? ).

kodirtysi

do it and take alot of pics.

integraver

look all i would say is.. BE SAFE AND DONT KILL URSELF OR ANYBODY ELSE.

and yeah easier in rwd kars.. theya re cheap too if u buy them used.. PEACE !! andgood luck

VWVORTEX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by white_raven &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SO basically the EG6 can be turned into a downhill monster... so now that we got that out of the way...where do we start modifying it???

Stiffening the Chassis/Frame
New Suspension

I need some ideas ppl!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

well are you trying to drift, or race touge/downhill/grip

if your going with a downhill machine, for touge/canyon racing you should first learn how to drive, you may think you can drive now, but your just a risk. Go take a year of atuo-x, solo, some driving classes, and take your time..

you have all life to learn, but it only takes 1 **** up to die.

as far as building a car, research hc cars, solo setups, touring, and drift cars to a degree. You want a massive cage, and a well designed one, something you won't smash your head into, but will protect you with a roll over. seat, harness, and good suspension.. power.. shrug.. have a smooth tune, fast throttle response, your not gonna be flooring it like American drag racing... so 180hp n/a, or mid 200's turbo is ideal.. 300+ hp and your just going to end up in the ditch.

white_raven

mmm good point...in my AE86 i do Touge - i would probably do that with the EG6 since i'm already familiar with that. The engine setup i'm thinking right now is a B16A - with HKS turbo strapped on it that should come out to about 250hp - 270hp ish.