6gencoupe97429

I know D series arn't taken too seriously around here, but i dont have the money for a DOHC motor yet so im gonna beat up this one then see where I'm at. I need a cheap non turbo build thats just gonna make my car run good, sound good, and mabey let my keep up w/ some american SI's. This is my idea but id like some one to correct it.

<U>Bolt on:</U>

header/cat back
throttle body/cold air intake (stock manifold)
lightweight pulley's
HP fuelpump/regulater

<U>Internals:</U>
Now here is where i am totally clueless...

AEM/skunk2 cams/camgears??? (can i do this with no B/E work?)
some type of valves and retainers???
ARP head bolts???

Drivtrain:
clutches/lightened flywheel (good brands???)
Gears (what type)

Im trying to keep it below 1,500-1,800 factoring in all free labor. tell me if i am foolish

SpeedoKing

you need a lot more cash...what are your power goals? you can probably do the bolt ons with the money you have but aside form that you dont have enough money to see any major power gains.

if you wanna make power you need pistons, and rods too.

as for your gears if you have the best trans for a D unless you want LS but i dont think they have one for a D and if they do they are hard to find and expencive

6gencoupe97429

Well i know that a D16 comes with about 125 hp to the wheels. I guesse i wanna know how much i can get with the top end bolt-ons (20-30hp?) But i thought changing the drivetrain on a D series was very important to seeing performance?
flywheel/clutches/gears

ware

you can probably piece together a turbo with less money than your going to spend on that list. You will get more power gain and will be more fun to drive! in other words don't build the D, unless it's for big boost.just my opinion..

devney

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6gencoupe97429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well i know that a D16 comes with about 125 hp to the wheels. I guesse i wanna know how much i can get with the top end bolt-ons (20-30hp?) But i thought changing the drivetrain on a D series was very important to seeing performance?
flywheel/clutches/gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

A d16 doesn't have 125 at the wheels.

slo_hatch

i say wait and swap it. only keep the y8 if you plan on boostin it. a y8 with all types of mods will still have a hard time keepin up with a gsr h22 with bolt ons. my opinon--save the money your gonna invest in the mods to just get a used engine swap from a junkyard or on ebay. i have a 93 hatch and i plan on gettin either an h22 or gsr or ls for it. go for the dohc!!

sohc_boy

you can use off the shelf oem pistons to bump the c/r a bit. a mild n/a d-series build isn't all that expensive. even pieced together home built turbo will cost more than a mild n/a build. do u already have all of those bolt ons? as for the rest u could run pm6 pistons to get you around 10.5:1 c/r or go with the pm7's and be over 12.5:1. the pm6's are from the d16a6's and the pm7's are from the d16a1(dohc d-series). both of those can be found for well under 200 bux unculding rings and pins. just get a cam and some pistons, there are a decent amount of cam choices for the y8 now. if you do a search you should be able to find some d-series builds pretty easily, chk out http://www.d-series.org as well.

crazyguy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by devney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

A d16 doesn't have 125 at the wheels.</TD></TR></TABLE>
+1
and u said to build a N/A..i suggest u save the money for a b or h series swap and dont waste on d series since u are going to boost it.

SpeedoKing

there is no way that you can get 20-30 hp gain from jus bolt on's. a mechanic by me put it the best Honda engines are anorexic they like NO2 and boost aside from that you they are expensive to get power out of. if you don't wanna swap your best bet it boost. good luck with the car i too have a d16y8 and plan on boosting it in the future when i have some cash.

as for your clutch flywheel and gears you don't have to worry about then the stock clutch will have no problem handling any bolt ons you put on the car and the gears as stated b4 are probably the best you are going to find for a D. but if your going to boost then a new clutch will probably be needed.

97Ej6mike

A good clutch and flywheel will make the car feel a bit more responsive and peppy.
Persoanlly, i love my exedy stage one organic clutch with a Fidanza ~10lb flywheel.

ctam1986

If you ask ppl around on HT, most of them will tell you not to do it. Try this website d-series.org there are lot of infos on how to build a NA D series. And for the part try to look at bisimoto.com best parts for the D. IMO Go for it and Save SOHC

SoullessJapaneseMachine

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6gencoupe97429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well i know that a D16 comes with about 125 hp to the wheels. I guesse i wanna know how much i can get with the top end bolt-ons (20-30hp?) But i thought changing the drivetrain on a D series was very important to seeing performance?
flywheel/clutches/gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

105 to the wheels maybe

bolt-on's don't net much power for D series

building a D series N/A is not recommended because it is a lot of money for minimal gains

boost will get you much more bang for the buck, but the starting price of boosting an engine properly is roughly 1.5-2k If you can't swing that then don't boost it, IMHO (you can if you're very handy/knowledgeable and you have other means of transportation just in case)

all worthwhile swaps will be 2k++ all said and done, (i assume you are not ready to swap yourself, so labor prices will be an arm and a leg on top of that)

I personally would not mod the D16 engine unless turboing it, and if that is not an option, I would leave it stock and put money into suspension or whateva, or get another car

leoaa777

Two words. Nitrous Oxide.

Bang for buck right there. You will get Hp but most importantly Torque at the wheels. Get a used kit, ~250. Have a mild tune on it and be done with it.

Boost_V

You'll spend more on building an na D than boosting it stock. Boost, even on stock internals, will be a lot better.


I know, when I found out that a Cold Air Intake won't net me 20 hp to the wheels, I went into a deep state of depression also.

CALC!_JUST_du_IT!

So much wrong information here, it's unbelievable... Here are a few suggestions:

BUILD THE HEAD! Get a crower stg 2 cam (or bisimoto custom grind, if you know what you really want) and the springs and retainers they recommend. Have a valve job done on your stock valves (assuming they're in fine condition), have the head port and polished by a shop you can trust, and get a ~0.025" head gasket from cometic to raise your compression a few points. Avoid milling the head. Just get it leveled if needed. ARP head studs are a good idea, but you can probably trust Honda oem quality for this build.

As far as bolts ons, only get what you need to match the performance of the cam you choose and the rpms you want to operate your motor at. In other words, if your keeping the stock redline, you don't NEED to change the throttle body, but you could get away with a slightly bigger B series, and they're cheap. If you're raising you're redline to 8000rpm+ (don't even think of revving that high on stock rods) you could probably get a way with a 60mm tb. Get whatever intake you think looks coolest. CAI, ram, it's all the same... well the differences won't be noticeable on your setup anyway. Just try to get a foam filter; they flow the best, and if you get a CAI, you don't have to worry so much about sucking in water. An intake manifold isn't a bad idea, but the stock y8 one is usually fine for moderate NA builds. You really need to get a good header. That is probably the best bolt on you can put on a D. Get the exhaust you think sounds the best. I like my RS-R exmag cat-back, it's nice and quite. DON'T GET THOSE STUPID PULLEYS!!! I don't care if they're made by AEM, they're garbage (I don't feel like getting into debate on this topic... just trust me). You could get good results out of an adjustable cam gear, if you know what to do with it. A lightweight flywheel will give you a bit better throttle response, and won't be a horrible mismatch in harmonic balancing like those damn pulleys. Nest time you need to change your clutch you might want to consider an entry level racing clutch and a lightweight flywheel (no less than 11lbs for street use, and you asked about brands, I recommend ACT, Clutchmaster, Exedy, Fidanza... whatever, I love my ACT setup).

For your motor's sake, and your tuner's sake, don't do anything to your fuel system components. The stock injectors and fuel pressure are perfectly adequate for the kind of build you're looking for.

Doing custom gear ratios will be a huge headache, and it's impossible to get exactly what you want the first time. Only serious tranny builders should go that route. If you wanna rip through your gears a bit faster get a 4.5, or maybe even a 4.7 final drive from mFactory. You'll have a significant loss in gas mileage with the 4.7, but you'll love the results.

devney

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CALC!_JUST_du_IT! &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So much wrong information here, it's unbelievable...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not really seeing a ton of wrong information. It's pretty obvious that building an N/A d series is not going to be cost effective. There's so many better options for less money that will net you more power. Of course he can do all of that stuff you mentioned but it's going to cost him a **** ton of money and not be worth it.

CALC!_JUST_du_IT!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ctam1986 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you ask ppl around on HT, most of them will tell you not to do it. Try this website d-series.org there are lot of infos on how to build a NA D series. And for the part try to look at bisimoto.com best parts for the D. IMO Go for it and Save SOHC </TD></TR></TABLE>

Listen to this guy... And I agree, you should check out d-series.org if you're considering a d series build. The people on that forum are a lot more knowledgeable than most people who post on here. And most H-T members who have the info to help you are just ******** anyway, probably because they're sick of puttng up with idiots.

NA D series builds can be cheap, and can have awesome results. A high compression civic with 140whp and a 4.7 final drive will be a hell of a lot quicker than a mildly built turbo civic with 200whp on most streets, and the NA build is more likely to be cheaper.

I'm all for turbo D's and swaps, but not everybody who wants to make a civic fast has to do the same thing. Great results can be obtained out of your NA D16y8.

Syndacate

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6gencoupe97429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know D series arn't taken too seriously around here, but i dont have the money for a DOHC motor yet so im gonna beat up this one then see where I'm at. I need a cheap non turbo build thats just gonna make my car run good, sound good, and mabey let my keep up w/ some american SI's. This is my idea but id like some one to correct it.

<U>Bolt on:</U>

header/cat back
throttle body/cold air intake (stock manifold)
lightweight pulley's
HP fuelpump/regulater

<U>Internals:</U>
Now here is where i am totally clueless...

AEM/skunk2 cams/camgears??? (can i do this with no B/E work?)
some type of valves and retainers???
ARP head bolts???

Drivtrain:
clutches/lightened flywheel (good brands???)
Gears (what type)

Im trying to keep it below 1,500-1,800 factoring in all free labor. tell me if i am foolish

</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 6gencoupe97429 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well i know that a D16 comes with about 125 hp to the wheels. I guesse i wanna know how much i can get with the top end bolt-ons (20-30hp?) But i thought changing the drivetrain on a D series was very important to seeing performance?
flywheel/clutches/gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

Eh, you probably don't want to hear it, but whatever.

You know that the D16 coems with 125 at the wheels? I know you're wrong. Try around 105. 125 is a crank power rating.

To give you an idea of how little all that **** does to your car, you won't even reach 125hp at the wheels with your bitch upgrades of CAI, header, exhaust, mani, and cam. The high flow fuel pump is useless as hell because you don't need it - same with the head bolts and cam gears. You're not milling the deck or anything - they're not necessary.

None of that other crap will give you power - so 1000 dollars later you might have 10whp+ at the wheels with a little more throttle response.

Bolt-ons are a waste on a D series unless it's a strong build (either FI or NA doesn't matter).

Just slapping an intake on is useless, either boost, or go strong NA.

If you go strong NA your best bet for power would be your header, cam, tune, and compression change (new pistons/rods). You can go new here or take higher comp OEM pistons like the A6's.

It'll probably cost more to do a pretty decent D build than it would to build.

Seeing as you can put yourself together a turbo system for not that much money, and that turbo is by FAR the most efficient way to make power out of ANY four cylinder engine, I'd say boost on stock internals.

Basically what it comes down to, is that unless you're changing the CR all those upgrades you're doing are gonna do &lt;10 hp - maybe 15...

Bump compression with a shorter trans would be your best bet, but even then, what are you looking at with high comp, intake, header, exhaust, and cam? I don't know, maybe 130 140 at the wheels. Still not as fast as a civic boosted to 220 at the wheels or so, but that'll be about all you can pump out of it with the low budget you're working on.

All bullshit aside, you don't have a strong enough budget to go all motor, if you want power you need to turbo.

hatchnideas

calc is on the right path for sure with everthing said. short ram is better low end response, full cold air is more mid to top end. i prefer cai myself. now for internals and stuff, you could run p29 pistons, mill the head some but not necessary, run at least a crower stage 2 or, better yet, a bisimoto cam( forget the skunk2 stuff, talk to people that know anything), get a headgasket that will give you the compression ratio you want. get a nice smsp header or a bisimoto unit when they are released, run a full 2 1/4in exhaust as well. if you want more power, ill toss you an interesting idea- scrap the fuel injection and go carbs. sounds dumb and crazy, but i know of a d15non vtec thats laying down 162whp and 123wtq with all of the above stuff and carbs running low 14s in a sedan when he was still 156whp. he still has room to work on the bottom end for more power and has yet to get the bisi header. not to mention his whole setup has cost less than a b swap to date lol.

wolfie98

what is N/A?

hatchnideas

Not /Applicable

SoullessJapaneseMachine

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatchnideas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not /Applicable </TD></TR></TABLE>

no dude, N/A does not mean that in the context hes using it in, and you know it.
N/A = North American

97Ej6mike

*sigh

Naturally aspirated (no form of forced induction)

Goto http://www.d-series.org to get all the info you need.

hondamark35

i feel the draw of trying to get power out of the underdog D, but considering your future plans for a DOHC swap...

pretend you're spending the money on your y8, but instead put it in a nice high yeild investment account of your choice. when you get it back out you'll be ready for the DOHC swap and richer.

i know that's unrealistic, but the idea is there. you can pick up a full swap for that much minus shipping. (depending on the swap. LS for sure..) then the money you would otherwise be saving for the swap you could put into the new swap.

greenej8

If your wanting to do any kind of D-series build, whether N/A or Boost, trans-wise best setup would be a d15b LSD transmission. It's a factory setup LSD from the D15 vtec. Also an Exedy stage 1 organic disc setup with fidanza flywheel for n/a but with boost stick with a resurfaced oe flywheel. Just my two cents.