kyalstyle

ok, i have vibration when im braking, just like everyone else. i have searched, but nobody has ever seemed to come up with a conclusive answer, at least not one that applies to me. here's my story-

270,000 on chassis, stock motor and mounts.

Bad vibration when braking. Also, car wanders to the left when driving. Recently replaced alot of stuff trying to get it all worked out, among other reasons, and it was still doing it. Theres a slight vibration when cruising, and coasting in neutral as well, so i dont think its drive-train related. When coming off the freeway or up to a stop sign, you can notice same faint vibration as when you were driving, then when you press lightly on the brake pedal you can feel it more, and if you press harder, it becomes a shudder, until it slows down some, and then sort of smooths out. It is worse some times than others. I think it might have something to do with my rotors, but I've replaced them several times, and its still the same. The old rotors, i could tell were either set on there wrong, or warped, but they werent that old so i dont know why. But when I take the wheel off and spin the rotor, i can see it varying between the pads back and forth. I tried to correct this and press one side on tighter, and they rotate almost smoothly now, at least to the naked eye. However, still vibrates.

mounts are still OK, i have checked.
before anyone tells me to change something, let it be known that i have replaced (within the last 500 miles):

ALL bushings, OEM rubber, all rear trailing arm and compensator and lower arm, and front lower arms.
Shocks.
ALL balljoints, and tie-rods, inner and outer.
Upper control arms.
ALL bearings, and hubs, front and rear.
Steering rack was replaced by previous owner... not sure about the pinion, but he said only the rack.
Rotors, twice.
Calipers.
Pads, several times, with each new set of rotors.
Axles, several times. Yes, they are the autozone specials, and i have become a pro at swapping axles because of this, i also know what a bad axle feels like, and the set i recently put in seem to be OK for now. There is no vibration when accellerating, or poping or grinding from the joints. I know axles can vibrate at higher speeds because of the joints or just imbalanced shafts, cheap remans. But it does it while its in gear, and also when you press the clutch and coast- at that point there is no load on the axles so it must be something in the knuckle.
Ive had it aligned right after every time I've worked on it.

I have read about having to get rotors "re"surfaced even if they're new, from an autoparts store? Is this true? I did get them from autozone, I'm ashamed to say. But does anyone have any insight? It seems so intangible to me since im almost at the end of being able to think about it anymore... after all this money and time ive spent, and its still behaving like a drunk field mouse on the road... im a litle perturbed to say the least.

boost4life

hows your alignment and r your tires balanced

n i doubt it since you have replaced many calipers but make sure your pads wear evenly check the guidepins and jus make sure you rotor spins nicely with the tire off

wat about wheel bearings check with the axle on the car

boost4life

if that doesnt work maybe try swaping everything from another civic jus to be see if ther is any difference if it gets to that point

riceburnerryan

yeah i was gonna say rotors, then i saw the end of your post... i would check alignment and maybe even camber?

kyalstyle

well, it has been aligned, like i said, after every time ive worked on it.. and its still had vibration right out the door, only mainly with braking. i forgot to mention that i also got new tires, maybe about a month or two ago, so they are all new and were balanced when they were mounted. i thought it could be bent wheels too.. but they are stock steels, and i have a hard time imagining them bending like an alloy.

boost4life- i have brand new honda OEM wheel bearings in the front, and my axles are cheap, but new, and they are a decent set. i have had several sets i put on and were bad right away, so i can tell these are ok. i know they might still be part of the problem, because cheap axles are just shitty all around. it comes and goes while driving, lightly, but increases dramatically when braking.

eventually i am getting new wheels and new honda axles.. however i dont want to spend close to $1000 for both of those just yet, unless i know thats whats causing it. like i said, it feels like brakes. but i have new calipers, rotors, pads, bearings, hubs, baljoints, everything.

riceburnerryan- i have not checked camber. my car is at stock height on stock springs, so i didnt think it would be a problem. its been aligned so many times... wouldn't a shop be able to tell me if my camber was excessive? i dont have camber adjustable upper arms, so im not sure how to correct it even if it was.

any other suggestions? or anything about an unsurfaced rotor that can cause this? like i said, my rotors are new, but from autozone. and ive heard people say they need to be resurfaced even though they claim they dont. im not sure if this alone is enough to cause vibration or not- anyone have any experiences close to this?

xXx Justin xXx

i noticed you said something about having to really press the rotor to try and get it where it looked like it didnt sway when you spun it freely. is there any chance you have a bunch of built up junk or rust on the knucle where the rotor is trying to go on. it sounds like you may have something hard (like rust or metal burrs etc) that are preventing the rotors from seating perfectly, thus pressing the pads and calipers as you roll.... being worse when braking (bc then you're trying to squeeze that wabble)... and if it is trying to go back and forth bc it isnt spinning perfectly flat... everytime it hits a side of the caliper, the caliper pushed on the mounting bracket, which makes the knuckle move, then the vibration/shutter is felt in the wheel... take a tiny chissel or something with the rotor off and use your hand to clean the surfaces of the knucle off....

if you have new or clean knuckles where the rotor seats.. sorry i must have missed that info. if not.. then this might be useful. good luck

rsx99

have you bled the brake lines lately. An air bubble could cause uneven braking and may even cause the veering if its rubbing while your driving.

kyalstyle

hey, thanks for looking and offering some input at least, guys.

justin- i see what you mean. however, i have new honda bearings, hubs, rotors, calipers, and "new" axles, so everything is perfectly new and shiny. it does seem like the rotor is not seating perfectly on the hub, i have noticed this, and feel it may be part of the problem, if not all of it. however i have no hard evidence, and without anyone else saying they've had this similar problem, im left scratching my head... since ive replaced rotors twice already, with no result. also, ive never heard of having to "balance" your rotors, i feel i shouldn't have to do this.. it should press squarely onto the hub as you tighten the lugnuts. also, ive adjusted it so that it is visibly as close to spinning straight as it can get... i squint from above and spin it and can barely detect any wobble anymore.. yet it still feels just as bad as it did before, shudders when braking. you can see why im at the end of my wits about this.

rsx99- i have bled the brakes when i had my trailing arms off for bushing swap, bled all 4- i could try doing it again. but i know i have bled them several times throughout the course of working on it, and ive never noticed it having any effect on this vibration. that is a good thought though, and i will try bleeding them again, since its quick and easy. nothing hurts to try. however, i have a feeling it might not fix my problem.

again, this seems like such an abstract problem, because i have literally replaced everything. before, it could easily have been anything.. which would offer more hope, wi th many options to try... now, its basically nothing, and i cant figure out why nothing makes it change. i also understand that some parts you buy new from the autostores come defective so you're led to believe its something else, when its actually still the new part you put on... however, i am reluctant to believe that every new part i put on is defective, and multiple times in a row, such as rotors. so there has to be something im not thinking about. im also reluctant to believe its the knuckle... partly because i just had new bearings pressed into these, and i realy dont want to have them all pressed out again or anything.

again, thanks so much for looking and offering input. im still in need of some magical advice, for anyone else who sees this.

hondamark35

you can get away with not turning high quality rotors. i've seen crap rotors do just fine also.

the logic behind turning the rotors is to true them to the hub. the typical shop uses a stand-alone brake lathe. this trues the rotor to itself, but rotors should be true out of the box. what honda recommends is to turn the rotors on the car... (most dealerships should have the proper equipment to do this, as well as many import specialists.) this trues the rotor to the hub, which is what really matters.

i don't remember you mentioning your wheels... i assume you've had them ballanced, but what about checking them for dents?

kyalstyle

hondamark35- this is a very good idea, and very close to what i was looking for. i am pretty sure it ahs something to do with the rotors, and i can't physically straighten them and it seems like they are not sitting on the hub right. that might be just what i need, getting the rotors turned to match the hubs. i imagine they are true right out of the box anyway... but i think my hubs arent accepting them correctly for some reason. is this a regular maintenance procedure at a dealership or a shop? and if so, would it cost less than $50 or so? i hate taking my car to the shop unless its absolutely necessary, such as alignments and balancing issues that you cant avoid without expensive equipment- this being one of them.

itsmejto

2x for xxxx, Junk and rust under the rotors. If they are new rotors, even the junky ones should be round. Try to get hold of a dial gauge and check the runout of the rotors, 4 tho. is acceptable but if you can see it, it must be much more than that. TRy the stub axles, sometimes they get bent a little causing your problem. Have you tried a differnt type of brake pad, especially with a champfered leading edge. TRy using the goopy stuff or backing plates on the pads, cheaop ones dont use em and vibrate sometimes.

hondamark35

turning rotors is a standard maintenance type thing. what i feel is the best procedure is to have rotors mic-ed for thickness and checked for run-out. if they are well within spec then they just need a light turning and new pads. if they are thick enough but the run-out is bad, they need to be turned. if they are too thin... new rotors.

and of course if they aren't "sporty" enough, new rotors..

TOO MUCH TORQUE

did you scrape off the surface rust from the wheel hub before putting on the new rotor?

strategy400

Perhaps its possible your bearings/hub were not pressed in correctly or that the surfaces involved were dirty, marred or gouged resulting in a non-square seating of the hub/bearings. You can buy whole hub/bearing assemblies (for one arm and one leg).

kyalstyle

well, again i did not scrape any rust off because my hubs are brand new, and have no rust. but its possible they were maybe pressed in unevenly. however, i think that even if that were the case, there would be no play in the rotor spin, as it would just be constantly on a set angle, know what i mean? meaning it would spin straight still, just on an angle. but like ive said before, i could visually see that the rotor was wobbling between the pads when i spun it. i tried to correct it some by tightening different sides of the rotor, and got it pretty close, so close that i cant see it anymore. however, if i put a light beneath the pads and spin, i can see a gap appear, then close, then appear again, very thin, but still there. this is so small, but it might be just enough, on both sides, to cause it. im kind of thinking they might need to be turned on the car, as hondamark35 is suggesting. everything is brand new, so there is no rust or crud or junk or anything, anywhere, between anything. also, rotors are brand new, so i know they are thick enough, and they might need to just be turned.

they are definitely not sporty enough however, they're going to have to suffice for now, if i can get them to work. i think i'll take it to the dealership soon and see if they can at least take a look at them and quote me on it. they happen to be a shady folk, dealerships, so i avoid them whenever possible. im not sure what they will try to charge me for it.

strategy- i thought about that before.. however ive already invested money in bearings and hubs and balljoints and the like.. so much so that i would probably crawl into a hole and wait for slow death before i could easily accept just throwing all that money out the window. and im quite fond of my arm and my leg, so... lets hope it doesnt get to that point.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

since you tried most of the things, i would search through the archives and look for similar problems and see what that person did to fix it.

stevanrk

Well, I too have this problem, and I think I have narrowed it down to the rear half of the car. I replaced my drums and pads in the back and that didn't fix my problem, which is just like yours. One thing I did to narrow it down to the back is pull up on your parking brake LIGHTLY while driving on the highway or whatever fast speed makes it easy for you to notice it. Does it hapen with the parking brake? Mine does and that is why I think it is my rear. Another thing I noticed when I was replacing my drums is that BOTH bolts that go into the body for the upper camber arm in the back are stripped and one is loose, almost to the point that I can remove it by hand. I will be doing a full integra brake swap (not to fix the problem, but rather to have rear disc and bigger fronts) AND I will be fixing the bolt problem with some helicoil inserts. Look for some loose bolt(s), front and back. It sounds trivial, but not always something you will come across if you don't look. good luck. I will post my findings when I fix the bolts in a week or two.
Steve

kyalstyle

well, i am glad my bolts are all OK. when i did my bushing swap, i replaced all my suspension bolts with new ones... while some were a bitch to get out, they are all still threaded in there with new ones and anti-seize, so i know all my bolts are ok, and everything is tight. i will try the E-brake thing tomorrow on my way to work. i am almost positive it is something to do with the front though, since i can feel it in the steering wheel when i brake. also, i keep searching and i see lots of other people who have braking vibration, tons of people do. but everybody says the same thing- replace this, replace that, loose bolts, change rotors, change pads, change axles, etc.... this is my problem. everything is new. this is why nobody can seem to help me. the closest option i have so far, is to get my rotors checked out at a shop and see if i can get them shaped to my hubs. both are brand new, but maybe they arent fitting right. so far thats the best i can come up with in my mind, since, like i said, ive already replaced everything.

stevanrk

Actually when I do the e-brake the whole car shakes more than the steering wheel. Keep us posted, as will I if I ever fix this.
Steve

_smitty_

either you need new tires, and wheel alignment , or new rotors.

kyalstyle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by _smitty_ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">either you need new tires, and wheel alignment , or new rotors. </TD></TR></TABLE>


EVERYTHING is new. and ive had more alignments than i wish to remember.

did you read anything at all before you posted? please, we are actually looking for advice.

i am on my way to work in a few minutes, i am going to try the ebrake thing and see if it has any effect. also, right after work i am breaking down and taking it into the dealership, and have them quote me on maybe turning the rotors. i hope i can fix this soon, i will let you know.

kyalstyle

tried the ebrake trick today- didnt really do anything, no shaking, so its nothing to do with the rear, at least not the drums in the back. i still think its something with the rotors in the front. i also ordered new balljoint boots all around, since from tearing my front end apart so many times, they are ripped. i tried to seal what i could to keep most of the grease from coming out, but maybe what i used could be causing more play in the steering as well. i havent gotten a chance to get to the dealer yet to see about turning the rotors on the car.. since i always work late. hopefully one of these next few days.

pantherninja

any resolution on this? i have having similar problem with new rotors and pads? Could a bad ball joint cause this vibration?