Demented98

as stated in title ive been having problems with my recently purchased civic
i'll give a basic run down of history ....known history ... whats installed ...

ok so ive bought this civic for cheap "due to it having and needing a vehicle inspection pass to be able to insure it and drive it"
ive passed the vehicle inspection order insured it and have been driving it
on hot summer days it seems to idle for the most part fine however when i come to a light it will randomly go from 800 idle to 500 idle .. and stay at 500 which is still generally smooth but on occasion ... and its not that few and far between "infact it happens at least once everytime im out driving" and sometimes happens on cold rainy days .. the idle will drop to 200 rpm and almost stall out when it does this it will continue doing this at every stop i make for about 10 -15 minutes of driving then go back to running at 500 rpm at a stop ..

engine seems to backfire when shifting ... i will be driving along and clutch in to shift and ill get a pop when im off the gas

CEL code 45 engine running too lean or too rich
i dont have a scan tool to find out which it is too lean or too rich ... however it does smell rich and i have excess carbon on the back of the car including rear windshield ... not a huge amount but enough to know it is a layer when i wash the windows and a black line of water runs down the back hence i beleive its running rich

ok now for the setup
its a D16y7 block and head with a D16y8 intake mani and an SI tranny 5 speed i cant remember what the tranny was from but i looked up the tranny code and it was stated its an SI tranny it also has a Air Intake made by K&N its not really a short ram its longer then that ... but it doesnt reach the inner fender like the Cold air intake systems ive seen it sits behind the headlight ..

since its a CX theres no A\C or power steering on the vehicle

Things ive attempted so far is spraying carb cleaner into the TB while keeping it revving without it stalling ... result is a large spray line of carbon on my driveway from the muffler
ive attempted the idle relearning procedure after resetting the ECU

another thing i should note is there is a distinct Ticking sound comming from the engine ive bought a stethoscope and listened in for the noise and the best way to describe where its comming from is as follows ..
no abnormal noises from valve cover or oil pan .. i can hear the noise clearly and mostly from the fuel rail and or the header .. louder on the far right side .. farthest piston to the right im hoping for an exhaust leak so its a cheap fix i hate ticks .. well its more of a chugging sound with a tick sound thrown in there

as far as history goes ... all i know is this car sat for 2 years undriven not maintained just sat there so as soon as i bought it i replaced the oil and oil filter replaced the leaking valve cover gasket
i live in canada and the car is from the U.S "confirmed with honda"

ive overlooked what the previous owners have done .. and did my best to check for vacumn leaks by spraying the carb cleaner around area while engine is running with no change in idle ..
the IACV hoses are not connected i assume they were too short so they put tight fitting bolts in the hoses and then hose clamped then to my understanding water runs through these hoses and there not leaking ... the back of the y8 intake drivers side has a small hose running out of that its got a bolt in it and hose clamped i sprayed cleaner there with no change in idle so i assume theres no leaking there .. ive changed the spark plugs out with used but known working plugs from my prelude and gapped them to spec that improved the idles smoothness considering the plugs that came with it were caked in some sort of buildup ive removed inspected the dizzy cap and rotor and sanded the contacts down to the best of my ability .. i will be replacing them as soon as i get some extra money .. " poor mans budget "

oh one more addon that may be important to mention or may not is it has a header installed the cat has been moved to the lower portion of the cars exhaust system "where they normally are .. or comparable to the location of the cat on a DA teg"

the car has plenty of power while driving it .. i beleive my gas mileage is poor however i have no real previous experiences with a 1.6l to compare it to ... all i have is the 1.8l engines but that was a long time ago .. and my h22a4 in my 98 lude which even running rich like it is still gets better mileage then my prelude .. but i get there slower LOL

i dont have specific tools like a timing light and no real experience with checking \ doing timing ... however im pretty quick to learn im a great do it yourselfer .. " done 3 motor swaps on my old DA before selling it " so any help would be appreciated ...
ive read many posts ... lots of suggestions but none seem to be specific to my situation ... and when the pwerson "fixes" the issue if they did they never post a follow up to what the problem was. .. in which case if this does get fixed up .. i will post the solution that helps me with as much detail as possible for future troubleshooters .. thanks in advance and sorry for the long post but i know you guys like as much detail as possible

Demented98

forgot to mention ive replaced the PCV valve as well and did make sure the dizzy was dust free and free of any metal dust upon reinstallation ive inspected the spark plug wires to make sure there was no grounding out or interuption in spark flow
the backfiring occured before and after the RE-RE of spark plugs
the ticking or chugging noise seems to be louder the lower the idle is however it does tick or chug consistantly with idle as idle goes up so does the speed of the ticking \ chugging
also im aware that the hose on the back of the y8 mani that is blocked off is for the cruise control and is not needed
the check engine light doesnt "reappear" for about 5 - 6 days of driving after resetting the ECU
the Y8 intake also has the "MAP" sensor ontop as i believe its the correct one to use for this application since its the "automatic" Y8 intake on the Y7 head the "IACV" is located on or under the throttle body is this the case ? please correct me if i have any details incorrect or am missing any details and what i should check for on an installation like this

jbpnoman

I would start off by checking mechanical and ignition timing, and giving it a bottle of Chevron fuel injector cleaner. Is 45 the only CEL you're getting? Exactly what kind of build-up was on the old spark plugs? Pictures of at least one of them would be immensely helpful, if you still have them. If not, a color and texture description would work.

Also, what is the transmission bell housing code? A 96 "SI" doesn't exist in the states.

Demented98

thanks for your quick reply and interest ...
i no longer have the plugs but the best description i could give is the colour was more of a rust look and the buildup was pretty severe it was almost like a buildup of rust? or rusty metal ... i ran the car for about a week with them in there not knowing they were like that and the car ran good ... the idleing was slightly rougher then it is now however it still had plenty of power for a Y7 the buildup im assuming would have been from it sitting for 2 years without being used
And yes CEL 45 is the only code it throws ... after reset of ECU its good for about 5-6 days then will throw that same code ... ive only had the car for a short time so i havent been able to have it popup enough to determine if its when i run it a little harder and make it run more gas up ... or if its during a harder backfire in otherwords i havent been able to see anything that would just cause it to throw the code .. i assume if it was a bad O2 it should throw it sooner then that i would like to check my O2 sensors voltages without stripping or cutting the wire however the ends of the plug are filled with a plastic is there any tips howto test the voltage without modifyingthe wires or cutting them altogether ?

Demented98

the 3 larger digits on the tranny is Y4F then theres three smaller ones P20

jbpnoman

5th Gen EX/Si transmission then, ok. That shouldn't really matter for the problems you're having, though.

Which of the following pictures looks most like your old plugs? By your description, I would assume "High Speed Glazing", although "Carbon Deposits" more accurately describes the problems you're having.



Considering the other signs of running rich, I would start with checking ignition and mechanical timing, as well as the injector cleaner I already mentioned.

Ignition Timing
Mechanical Timing

Demented98

ill grab some injector cleaner as soon as i get some loot ... ill visually check the cam gear and TDC of piston as soon as i have free time hopefully tomorow ..
ignition timing ill see if a buddy can help me out with that ..
it had the high speed glazing colouring ... but the buildup was best described like the size of a pimple mainly on the outside top along the bent metal mainly all outside of the plugs top .. like i said the car sat 2 years so im assuming it was just buildup of condensation rusting the plugs ? ive been driving these new plugs well used but good plugs for 2 weeks now ill pull them tomorow and see if i can come up with what these ones look like ? if that helps .. and ill also check to see if any one of them are wet or show signs different from the others .. im also hoping this loud tich isnt something that can be damaging to the engine .. i listened to the valves they sounded what i consider normal .. and the bottom end seems ok for sound however hopefully mechanical timing is causing the sound .. as your suggesting the mechanical timing could be the issue to all my problems im assuming thats what your saying anyways

Jimster480

if you have a smart phone with android I suggest you buy a $18 Bluetooth OBD2 reader and the $5 Torque app. It can give you readouts in full time (fast update rate too) and you can see things like ignition timing, etc. I have this problem on my auto stock daily car where it just starts retarding the timing for no reason (no sensor input that I can see seems to change) and it causes a very similar situation. The motor is also always noisy.

Demented98

all i have is the iphone 4 ..
my roomate has the samsung galaxy tab with android however that wont be as a permanent use for me .. ive been looking into a Vagcom cable ? dont know if anyone is familiar with them ? but it allows you to hookup the obd2 to a laptop Via USB and see real time readouts as well as make minor adjustments to the ecu flash chip ?

Jimster480

yea that works, and there are a few apps for iPhone but idk how well they work or anything like that.

Demented98

ok thanks for the advice .. ill look into it a little more
i just got home so im waiting for the engine to cool a little before i pop off the timing belt cover and attempt to check mechanical timing ..
any advice ? i know lots about the outside of the engines but not very much about internal configurations or setups .. i dont know which is piston 1 .. is that the one closest to the dizzy ? which piston should i have TDC before checking the marks on the cam gear ?

Jimster480

piston 1 i believe is closest to the cam gear. But i do sometimes get it fkd up. But if it is up then the timing is right anyway since the piston 1 and 4 are on the same stroke.

Demented98

ok i didnt have time to check timing today and its almost dark out however i managed to get a quick vid of my motor running on my phone so you guys can hear the ticking \ chuggy noise it makes and maybe let me know if its something to be worried about ? or if its just outta valve adjustment i dont have a trained ear for ticks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYBPlzbIhqg
microphone is at the bottom of my phone i moved the phone around so you can hear the tick get louder near the cam gear side yet louder along the header .. i listened to it again with the stethoscope and have no reason to beleive its bottem end im pretty sure its top end and not a rod bearing or piston knock

jbpnoman

Have you checked your oil level recently? It almost sounds like it's running dry.

Demented98

i did a complete oil change as well as filter change about a week and a half ago maybe 2 weeks max ... ill check the oil lvl tomorow after i warm it up it should be fine tho i fixed all oil leaks and theres no blue smoke from exhaust
i know its hard to tell from "video" sound but what does it sound like ? valves? assuming it may be low oil that would make the valves noisy right ? so your saying to you it sounds as tho its a valve noise ?

Demented98

oh i should note that yes the d16y7 stock oil recommendation is 5w30 however i dont know what oil was previously in it so i bumped it up to 10w30 after reading that it should be fine in this engine its the castrol brand semi synthetic

jbpnoman

Was it making this ticking noise before the oil change?

Demented98

yes not as loud ... and its been about the 2 weeks since and it seems to have gotten a little louder .. seems a little louder each few days
i could be imagining things tho since once u hear a sound ... u cant unhear it ...

Demented98

oh and i did a compression test about a week ago results from left to right were if i remember correctly ... 210 - 210 - 190 or 196 ... and 210 which according to online lookup was within specs

jbpnoman

3 is a hair on the low side. By a hair, I mean 3PSI out of spec (5% from average. 210 * .95 = 199).

Your to-do list should look something like this, at this point -

Mechanical timing check/set
Ignition timing check/set
Valve Lash adjustment
Leakdown test

In that order. The mechanical and ignition timing are the most important, maintenance and diagnosis wise. Valve lash adjustment might just knock out that ticking noise you're hearing. The leakdown test is more informational than maintenance, and will possibly tell us why cyl 3 compression is on the low side.

If you have the right tools, and rent/borrow the tools you don't have, a few decent hours under your hood and a few cold beers should give us at best, a solution, and at worst, more diagnostics to run with.

Demented98

Ok I'll do my best to check mechanical timing tomorow ... I'll look into the cost of feeler gauges I've never done a vale lash adjustment before but many say it's easy ... If it is infact this easy I should be able to do it no prob and it's something worth learning since it could save me money in future and or make me some extra money in future ... Ignition timing I have to see if I can borrow a light for it I should note that I did try retarding ignition timing and advancing it with no effect on actual tickin noise idle did however go up and or down appropriate to the adjustments before Doing so I do mark it's original location and put it back to where it was .. I'll look into what I require for a leak down test and the procedure to doing it and I'll see if I can get that figured out ... I'm happy with the performance of this engine and will enjoy the fuel economy when it's running right so I would like to keep this engine currently in the car so I'm trying to avoid having it run itself into the ground worst case tho I will consider a b18b1 obd 2a swap out but would like to salvage this setup if I can before going that route thanks for both of your suggestions so far guys sorry if I appear slow to troubleshoot but when your the only guy with a liscence in a house with 7 people .. Ya end up being a taxi can and not really having much time during day hours I'll try to get some of this stuff done tomorow and have some feedback for you guys

Demented98

There's a few diff sources I've read previously anyone know spec feeler gauge sizes for intake and exhaust sides ? And ie read some people say to do this while the motor is hot others do a cold valve adjustment ... Which is correct feeler gauges and correct time hot or cold ?

Demented98

Mechanical timing is good ignition timing seems close or good I think it's tight valves do or can they tighten themselves ? Or do they just get progressively looser I inspected the valve lash with just my fingers they all had some play but not much at all I would be able to fit a finger nail in between where the feeler gauge goes so I assume there not too loose any other suggestions ? And towards the cel code 45 ? After reassembling I started the car up and it left another deposit of carbon or soot on the driveway the plugs were clean but were glazed with white like there too hot ? Any suggestions ?

Jimster480

None of those things will fix it. Just do your valve lash, if its not the valves, check your cam bearing and your crank pulley keyway (listen for the noise next to the crank pulley) if its none of those, then its main bearings.

Demented98

Ok I did listen all around the engine and the best I can come up with is the sound is strongest around the head in a few different locations I can listen to direct bolts tht go into the head and the sound is pretty strong it's also strong around fuel rail on the head side and the fuel rail itself as well as being strong on the exhaust manifold itself "I can even hear it faintly through the coolant hose from the radiator " I was thinking could it be water pump ? I listened to the timing belt cover and can't hear it in there but would the Rick isolate itself and feed through the motor ? I listened to oil pan it sounds normal I also listened to the valve cover and I can faintly hear it but I hear it strongest on exhaust manifold and intake manifold my friend also listened and he assumes its an intake valve outta whack but wouldn't I be able to hear it strongly through the valve cover ?