TomCat39

Addendum: Only the last posts of this thread are probably relevant as they are new and more current questions thus are less likely to have already been answered. I would suggest only reading through the thread for entertainment or information purposes as you most likely won't see anything that is not already answered until the end anyway.


Hello Techs,

I've found wonderful information and help here in the past. Some of the best info has been from here.

I bought a used 93 Civic Hatchback DX, automatic. It's running but upon investigation, I found the original D15B7 motor was swapped out for a JDM D15B dual carb non vtec motor.

I've read that it's a cheap motor to throw into these civics so I assume the 2nd owner of the car blew the head gasket of the B7 and got swindled into the non vtec version of the D15B. I'm making the assumption based on the ricer look the car took on in those 5 years and that a motor swap was done instead of just a head gasket.

I know it's the carb version because the fuel pump block off plate is on the back of the PM3 stamped head. So it looks like they kept the stock intake and exhaust manifolds and the stock fuel rail. Not sure how to differentiate the dizzy so not sure which distributor is on it.

The things I don't know about this motor is what timing belt will work on it, nor what valve lashing specs are for the head. I don't even know what NGK spark plugs are needed for this thing. I sort of am torn on this motor. I'm hoping the bottom end has the bigger rod journals like the vtec D15B but then there is the issue of getting parts for this thing.

At the minimum, I need to keep this running long enough that I can rebuild my spare D15B7 motor so that I can get the car back to stock for my wife.

The Tranny only has 178,000 kilometers on it so thought the hassle was worth the 2 grand I paid for it. That low of mileage (have the air care docs to back it up) is unheard of and it wasn't really driven until the 2nd driver about 5 years ago, who looks to have beat on it pretty good.

If any of you pros out there can give me some insights on some of the regular maintenance specs of the non vtec jdm dual carb D15B motor, that would be absolutely awesome. Most of the info I found is for the vtec JDM D15B.

Thanks in advance for any insight you may provide and happy holidays.

B_Swapped93

I do want to help you even tho I just Google searched this stuff: lash spec:Intake: 0.17-0.22 mm (0.007-0.009 in)
Exhaust: 0.22-0.27 mm (0.009-0.011 in)
you can use a D15B1/D15B2/D15B7/D15B8 timing belt
as for plugs i'll leave that one black I'd assume b7 etc ones would be fine.

TomCat39

Nice, looks like same spec as the B7 for lashings. Was thinking the stock B7 plugs should work. Just wasn't sure the threading would be the same. Glad Honda was so modular thinking even back then.

TomCat39

Just curious to know where you found the specs? I've done a bit of searching and came up pretty empty handed before posting here. Seem to take you less than 2 minutes.

Is it a source you can share or do I need to understand Japanese?

B_Swapped93

I googled d15b non vtec lash specs and had to sift threw a few threads.

TomCat39

More questions concerning this car....

This car is a 4 speed automatic...

I haven't had a chance to look under the dash to see what wiring stuff has been messed with but I know something was done being it has a fake imoobilizer LED and chirps in the cab when you turn the car off. Also two switches were added but the wires were cut so doesn't seem to impede running of the car.

It has weird start behavior. It doesn't always crank over when you turn the key to start. You get the CEL light on for a few seconds then turns off. It doesn't matter if you wait or not for the CEL to go off, when you turn the key to crank the motor it sometimes doesn't crank. Go back to on then try and it usually cranks. Takes two or three attempts before the car starts to crank. No clicking of the starter either. It either cranks or it doesn't.

So far I've only come across the safety neutral switch under the center console as a possible cause.

I was wondering if anyone else has some other possible ideas of what might cause behavior like this on an automatic Honda. I'm mostly familiar with a standard so this automatic is new to me.

Thanks for any insight you can provide. Just looking for areas I will possibilty need to look at to isolate this problem. Car runs fine once started.

Stock car with the exception of a carburated D15B JDM motor being swapped in for the old D15B7 motor. Looks like they kept the stock header and intake manifold and fuel rail etc.

Stock P06 ECU.

Not sure what other information will be relevant. Oh has AC and PS. Fluid levels are all good and fine.

94EG8

Have you tried wiggling the shifter when it doesn't start? Try that and see if it helps. The only other thing I can think of is a bad ignition switch, but typically the way they fail is the car will just randomly shut off while driving.

Also, I think it's been covered but the engine you have is basically a D15B7, whoever put it in would have reused the original distributor since the one that comes on the dual carbed D15B isn't compatible with an OBD1 ECU.

axis11

Try shifting to N and P and vice versa when it doesn't crank. Or it could be your starter solenoid getting stuck intermittently.Have you experienced turning the key but there is a short delay before the starter spins.

TomCat39

Ahhhh yes, that makes sense too. I think so, I've only started it a few times but did notice it doesn't always crank over first try.

I assumed the only possible causes would be electrical but it seems that only one cause is electrical while the other is mechanical.

Thanks guys. I'd like to get this car in proper working order for my better half. She's anxious to be driving it. I'm just not anxious to be working on it this time of year, it's bloody cold out some days.

axis11

Check if you are getting battery voltage to the solenoid terminal.
You need someone to turn the key while you test the terminal.
If you're getting voltage, have the starter tested.

TomCat39

Okay, got a new thing for this car I am hoping to get a better insight on.

But first an easy question that I already suspect the answer is yes. If you change struts without touching any other part of the suspension and it changes the ride height, is an alignment recommended? I took out the H&R racing springs struts that came on the car and installed 95 civic hatchback stock struts to return to stock ride height and feel to the car I bought for my wife. It's not being driven yet but wondered if my suspicion was correct that I really should have an alignment done before I let my wife go about driving it daily.

Okay now for the harder bit, well for me. Is there a good resource for wire connector pinouts?

It looks like I need to get a new wire harness for the steering column. There is a driver side air bag but it looks like the SRS Harness is untouched. I'm guessing someone home installed and alarm and ripped it out or just rigged some sort of kill switch or something of the like. I'm working at restoring the cabin wiring as close to stock before getting an alarm professionally installed.

I've been looking over the Helms manual and it's not that straight forward for the wiring harness connectors.

I'll demonstrate what I'm looking at and hoping there is a slightly easier way to put two and two together to equal four.

So this page shows the connectors and their designations:

The next page then says what it connects to and how many pins it is:

Neither page shows wire colors. The next part is the schematics which show the wire paths and circuits, but does not show the connectors to piece it all together:

Then you go looking at the wiring itself and you find multiple connector plugs with coloring. So I believe I have a brown 7p connector as well as a grey 7p connector. The connector page above doesn't provide connector colors to aid either. Instead I guess you have to follow the other end of the wire harness to see where it goes to know which plug corresponds to the connector designation in the FSM.

Then we have wire colors on the connectors but knowing which black/yellow it is, is another matter altogether, or red with black from the fuse box:





So trying to piece it together without actually ripping it all out and tracing it all with just the FSM isn't exactly the most straight forward task. I was hoping there was another resource available.

That being said, in this instance, it almost looks like I could potentially fix this home hack job by finding another SRS no cruise control steering column harness and it will return the majority of the hacks back to normal.

I'd still like to know what each of the wires that were cut are for. It would be nice to be able to simply look up c427 black/white is ignition ground or what not.

Any insight or resource like this would be a major help I would think. Or am I missing something totally obvious in the FSM?

TomCat39

Doing a search the only thing I came up with for pinouts was this thread from 2005. Seems no one has fully documented the complete wiring layout and color codes to all the connectors and wiring harness under the 5th gen dashboard.

*C`est la vie*

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

there was def. a security system installed. id just snag a new switch harness from the yard and replace it from the box up. your engine is the same internally as a d15b7. any accessory from a b7 will bolt right up to it, timing belt/pump included.

TomCat39

Yeah, thanks. In my searches I learned there is an Electrical Troubleshooting Manual.

I only found one used one on ebay for just under 40 bucks for a 93 civic. I'm thinking about buying it and hoping it is close enough for the 95 so that it will be helpful on my other hatchback too. There is a brand new one for 92 but I know 92 still had the vtec wiring on the tower that 93-95 didn't have so think the 93 maybe the best option for me and both my EG's.

I saw other reply about the motor maintenance part that confirms with what you just said so have peace of mind there. Thanks

I was thinking the same thing about just getting the wire harness from the junkyard and putting it in. It looks like there may not be a plug and I will just do the cut, solder and seal higher up on the column so all the lower plugs are pristine for a professional alarm install.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Yeah, the ETM is what you want. The one for '93 will be close enough for your purposes. Very little will have changed, although in 94/95 the Canadian Civics had additional OEM wiring in the dash/firewall harnesses to accommodate the CDM version of the OEM optional security system. Also, in '95 I think they changed the mounting of the MAP or TPS or some such thing that I'm forgetting the acronym for under-hood.

If you can find one for a '94 you will be in even better hands.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

i was talking about replacing the harness with the large brown plug. easy. as for the rest, connect color for color, eliminate aftermarket wires, solder, tape. no need to bother with heatshrink with wires that will never see climate and are well protected.

TomCat39

Yeah, it looked to me when I was going through it that both the small and large brown plugs went to the steering column. When I was looking through the FSM, it looks like the SRS no cruise control systems don't have a plug higher up on the steering column. That's what I meant about cutting and soldering so the brown plugs are pristine and just leaves one wire on the gray plug and one wire on the green plug that's not virgin.

The cruise control steering columns seem to have a plug up by the steering wheel so you could just unplug and plug to replace that section of harness.

Gonna find out today when I'm at the junkyard. Hope it has a plug up high, make life a little easier.

Thanks for the heads up on the ETM deschlong. I will keep my eye out for a 94 or 95. Still think I will grab the 93 for my wife's car.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

Connector going to cruise control for non-SRS is up high, on top of the steering column. (1992, Canada only). CC w/ SRS is underneath, under the column, under the knee bolster.

TomCat39

Unfortunately, my wifes car doesn't have cruise control so as I found out at the junk yard, it's a cut the ignition wires as high up the column as possible. Tonight I get to solder it into my wifes car to clean up the under dash wire harness that goes to the firewall and the under dash fuse panel.

The one question I threw up in my last adventure of this car with the part of the wire harness was about ride height being changed. If you swap struts and it changes ride height (different springs), is an alignment recommended? The answer of this I think will also be informative for adjustable coil overs. Wondering if everytime you jack the car up and change your coil over settings if an alignment is typically recommended.

TomCat39

Okay so I got a little hasty and increased the difficulty of the ignition wire harness refresh.

I didn't note that the larger brown plug has two blue/white wires in it before I went and cut the bottom portion of the harness off. I also learned that the upper part of the harness has two white/green wires but at the plug it's one white/green and one white/yellow wire. I got pretty lucky with that one being the replacement harness is cut high (two white/green wires) but the one on my wifes column I cut lower so it is one white/green and one white/yellow. A quick continuity check will show me which one of the two white/green is the white/yellow to match up for solder.

But the one single set I don't have a way to trace. I think I could see two blue/white wires going into the lock cylinder on the column. What I don't know is if they go to the same spots inside the lock cylinder or if they do different functions. I think I may have a method of figuring out which is which if necessary but I'm not a big fan of sticking a needle into the wires on my car to test for continuity and then again on her column to see which of the two is which. Does anyone know off hand if the two blue/white wires in the key cylinder are connected and just run to two different pins on the plug end?

Picture below showing the two blue/whites:



Or if it won't be damaging if they are switched, I can just solder them up and if the car doesn't start then I know to swap those two pins on the plug. Anyone know if that is safe?

Addendum: This info might help someone. I figured out the easiest way for me to get this fixed precisely as it was before. First off, the Factory Service Manual has those two wires as the "key in" sensor. It also has it as one blue/white and one white/blue. I'm extremely thankful that's wrong and they are both blue/white wires. The three spots that the FSM doesn't show any wires on the 7-P connector have white wires, white/yellow, white/blue and white/green. I suspect these go to much more complicated circuits and having to differentiate a white/blue ground from the key in circuit to the white/blue of I don't know what because it's not documented in the FSM...... Yeah that could have been bad.

So as it is, all the blue/white wires are for is to pass a little current through the key so as to chime or beep when you open your door with the keys in the car. So in reality it does not matter which way you hook up the two blue/white wires to the plug. It's too simple of a circuit to matter.

Then there is me...... I like to have it as close to the way it was as I possibly can. And I really did not want to poke a needle into any of my wires. So here is what I'm going to do.... Now remember, I have two of these cars so I have a slight advantage here. I'm going to go to my car that is in perfect running order and pull that 7-P connector and pull the female connector out of the plug. Then I'm going to put the plug back into it's spot, put the key in the ignition, turn it to the on position and open my door. Now for crafty thought I had this morning. I'm going to then measure the current (amperage) from the ground part of the plug to the wire. I will put the negative test lead to the plug and the positive lead to the wire and see if I have negative or positive current. Then when I put the other car back together I can do the same thing. Leave the one connector out of the plug and do the same test, if I got a positive current on my car but a negative current on the car I'm putting together, I then know I have to swap those two wires in the plug and then it's set as it was at factory. This will save me from stabbing holes into any of my wires and puts my OCD to rest. Just using the fact that DC current only flows in one direction to my advantage and knowing that one of the wires is ground really helps too.

As you can see below, the FSM doesn't have the wire color correct for that ground wire as compared to the plug I posted the photo above. I have three plugs from 3 different 92-95 civics and they all are exactly like the photo I posted. 2 blue/white wires for the "key in" circuit.



Thanks for watching, I hope you have enjoyed my OCD as much as I have stressed out about it. Cheers.

Until next episode and we get to see our hero.......

P-M-B,93EXsedan

I ****** knew I saw a circular air cleaner ontop of a d15b..

I wanna try driving a carb'd Honda

TomCat39

Yeah it's a rare motor I've been told. Mine is the motor but it's not carb'd. I don't even know what ECU you would need if you had the dual carb's and intake manifold. Nor do I know what other parts would be needed to get it running properly.

If you wanna drive a carb'd civic, try and locate a '78 CVCC, those were all carb'd but I think only one carb not duals like this D15B motor.

Back to my wiring gig.... I found another little tidbit of information when I was at the soldering job. If you cut your relacement 7-P connector high up on the harness so that you have the two white/green wires, you will find that you have six wires not just five, the sixth is a black/red wire. Then you cut your 7-P lower on your column (like I luckily did) you have one white/green and one white/yellow. Here is the helpful tidbit. To identify which white/green on your replacement portion of the harness goes to the white/yellow on your column harness, do a resistance test from the black/red wire and each white/green. The white/green with next to no resistance to the black/red is your white/yellow wire. I just hooked the black/red to my corresponding white/green and soldered them both to my white/yellow on the harness.

Hope that tidbit of info helps someone at some point.

Oh and I just had to go out and buy a 230/140 watt soldering gun so that I can solder that white thick *** battery cable together. That's a monster cord. The copper alone must be almost a 1/4 inch thick.

deschlong

iTrader: (8)

^ I have soldered wires of this gauge together before and let me tell you it is not pretty. Thankfully there is heat shrink that I can blast on over top to cover up the shame.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

i used to install for an electronics retailer, ive never had an issue with soldering those wires with a standard soldering iron. heat from the bottom, solder on top. glad to see you got the rats nest worked out, tomcat

TomCat39

Thanks guys, it's all back together and works like a charm. I have a spade sitting under the backside of the 5-P connector on the black/yellow wire so the LED is still lighting up with the key off so looking like an immobilizer light. Not hard wired anywhere into the ignition harness so removing it is as simple as just pulling the spade out. The plug casing is holding it pretty snugly against the female's crimped portion of the wire. Later I will pull the stereo and see where the other end of the LED is hooked to. I have a feeling it's to the aftermarket stereo. I was able to locate a stock radio plug so I can restore that to factory spec and get a conversion plug/harness for the stereo and install the stereo properly. Car will be put on the road by Monday and my wife will be extremely happy.

Here is a couple pics of the solder work and the wicked soldering gun. Only used the 150 watt setting and that monster cable took solder in less than one minute. Made a mistake in my previous post. It's a 230/150 watt dual heat solder gun. Thing could weld steel methinks.

After about a 1/4 roll of electrical tape, I think you would have to closely inspect the harness to notice it's not stock. Quite happy with the results.

Some visuals for you:



Lots of solder in dem wires!!! They be solid!



The massive soldering gun that made it a breeze. The only downside is 20% duty cycle, one minute on, four minutes off to rest. Heavy duty is almost an understatement. I think I'm in love.



Nearing completion. Only an eighth of a roll of tape left. Just about time for the victory dance!