Leon999

Need some help on this. I am stumped right now on a no crank, no start situation.

Battery voltage passed; CCA load test passed.
Bench tested starter. Battery connection to starter and ground is good.
Voltage drop on connection from starter cut relay to starter is high.

This is a manual transmission. Ignition sends power to the starter cut relay; relay coil goes to clutch interlock. Car starts fine when it is cold; no crank, no start happens when it is hot. Also have a PO118 code for engine coolant temperature, but I believe this is unrelated.

Starts cold when clutch interlock is closed; won't start when clutch is not engaged like it should. However, the car can be started without engaging clutch when I jumper the relay connection and I don't understand why this would be.

Jumping the female connector that mates to the starter cut relay allows me to start when it is cold and when it is hot. However, I determined that it will only start with jumper if you don't engage clutch. When clutch is engaged and connector/jumper wire, it doesn't send enough power to the starter and you can hear the starter squeal a bit.

I also checked voltage going to the relay switch from the ignition and putting the other lead on the wire that goes to the clutch interlock switch and it reads 13.6 V when I engage clutch, which is good and it doesn't read any voltage when I take my foot off the clutch. Works just like it should.

Given the above information, I concluded that the problem was with relay and not the clutch interlock switch although the way the jumper wire behaved with that clutch switch had me a bit confused. Anyway, plugged in a new relay and it still won't start hot. I can only get it to start hot when I jumper the female connector that plugs into the starter cut relay.

Very confusing --- any ideas would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks!

Former User

Sounds like you need to readjust the position of the starter switch on the clutch pedal.

Leon999

Thanks very much for responding.

It works fine on a cold start, but will not work on a hot start. When it doesn’t work on a hot start, I remove the relay and probe the wires on connector to see if correct voltage is being sent to relay and to make sure ground is being completed when clutch interlock switch is engaged by depressing clutch. When I do this, the correct battery voltage can be seen on multimeter between ignition wire coming into relay and wire leading to clutch interlock switch when clutch is engaged. This would tell me that the clutch interlock switch is adjusted properly – am I missing something? Any ideas would be much appreciated. thanks.

Former User

Yes, you are missing something. Adjust the switch.

09chaplak

Sorry this isn't technical and OP you won't understand but Ron, now whenever I see your name all I can think of is roast beef......

Former User

You've stopped taking your medication again. Find your prescription bottle and take your daily dose. You'll be feeling better in no time.

Back on topic.

Leon999

The clutch interlock switch is connected to the output of the starter cut relay coil, not the clutch switch on my car according to the manuf wiring diagram. Bear with me, how would the clutch switch have an effect on the starter circuit which relies on completing the ground when the clutch interlock switch closes?

Former User

Study the circuit diagram I posted. Closing the clutch switch activates the cut relay, thereby allowing voltage from the ignition switch to be sent to the starter solenoid.

Leon999

Understood, but my car wiring diagram doesn't show the clutch switch activating the relay. Instead, it shows the clutch interlock switch activating the relay. The clutch switch is not in the same circuit.

Former User

For this discussion, the clutch switch and clutch interlock switch are the same animal, unless you're talking about the clutch pedal cruise control switch that has nothing to do with the starter circuit.

Have you adjusted the clutch (interlock) switch after loosening locknut B exactly as detailed in post #2?

Leon999

Adjusted clutch interlock. Still having same problem. Any other ideas? Thanks.

Former User

Based on the test results you posted, I would recommend that you replace the switch.

Leon999

Thanks for your help. I'll try that and see.

Brends4

May have a answer for you because i had a similar problem, has it ever died on you because it was hot? not necessarily overheating just had warmed up and later died, if so you may have a dizzy problem probably the ignition coil in the dizzy, if thats the issue may as well just replace the cap and rotor to.

Leon999

It hasn't died after being started when fully warmed up. I can get it to start cold every time. I can get it to start hot if I jumper the starter cut relay. When I jumper the relay, the flow of electricity somehow travels such that I can start without pushing down clutch. Still don't understand why that happens. Once started and running though it doesn't ever die.

Does anyone know best way to get to switch? It is real tight under there and I can't get my hands in there when I'm on my back. It's a real Bch.

Thanks.

tony_2018

Its a real bitch but the only way is to take down the clutch pedal, best remove the seat to get to it unless you wanna be stuck out in the cold weather with a car that doesn't wanna start.

Leon999

ok, thanks for the help.

Eh2Guanaco

SO you say it starts cold but not hot?
...if thats the case it sounds to me that your problem is in the distributor...maybe the ignition control module is over heating...and when it gets hot it cuts off...just an idea...best way to check that is by starting it...and wait til it gets hot...once hot cut it off and check for spark

Brends4

Thats what i think too he's definitely got a dizzy problem if the car wont start hot.

Former User

It's a cranking problem folks. The distributor has absolutely nothing to do with the starter.

tony_2018

He has an issue cranking the car, that is what I'm assuming is the issue. If he can crank the car but the car won't run than we could move on to the timing, ignition or fuel.

Leon999

OK, new information. I adjusted clutch switch. same problem. i took the clutch switch out and plugged the connector back in and held it in my hand to cold start - started no problem. let run 15 min, and used same procedure for hot start - and no crank, no start, silence. then checked continuity of switch when fully depressed in hand, switch had continuity so switch was good. check voltage on two wires going to switch when turning ignition on - had 13.7 V. All good.

The only other connection i know to check no is the electrical connection on the starter that gets powered from ignition. Hopefully, that is it and not a short in wires between dash and starter on engine.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

Former User

What wires did you voltage test to come to this^ conclusion? What were the voltage readings?

This^ test result seems to isolate the problem to the clutch switch portion of the circuit. Is this reproducible even now? What specific wires in the relay connector did you jump for this test?

This^ seems important and suggests to me that you did not unplug the relay connector for your jumper test. What happens if you do the jumper test with the relay unplugged?

Repeat this test and check whether battery voltage reaches the Blk/Wht wire terminal at the starter solenoid.

Leon999

Ok, more test results:

starter cut relay - V between blk/wht, blu/blk to clutch switch: passes cold and hot. approx 13.7 V.
clutch switch - blu/blk in, blk to ground: passes cold and hot continuity test. took switch out and held in hand to make sure plunger was all way down.
starter - blk, ground to chassis: 13.7V; blk/wht, ground to batt: 12.27V.

Car starts fine when cold. No crank, no start when hot after 15 min of run time. Does this mean the starter is bad on hot start?

Leon999

the 12.27V on blk/wht at starter was when it was hot and it wouldn't crank.