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Old 10-16-2011, 01:02 PM   #1
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Default 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I really need some help trying to figure out what the issue for no spark is here.
I have removed each plug wire and inserted new spark plug and grounded threads to block and no spark for any cylinders.

With key turned to ON(II) fuel pump primes for two seconds then goes off.
Check engine light also comes on for two seconds then goes off.
I've replaced distributor with aftermarket and then exchanged for another thinking I got a bad aftermarket distributor but neither has worked.

I get battery voltage at the black/yellow wire and blue/white wire in distributor to icm with key switched to ON(II)

I have not tested this battery voltage with key turned to start. Is it possible power is fine at ON(II) yet somehow interupted when key is cranking in start position.

The yellow/green wire from ICM to ECU is not interupted and not shorted.

Fuses have been tested on both sides of test probes and are fine.

The thermostat ground was cleaned and retightened.

What other testing can I do here to narrow this no spark problem down??
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Old 10-16-2011, 05:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

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Old 10-16-2011, 06:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

main relay could be bad
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I figured the main relay was good because I'm getting power to fuel pump when key turned to ON(II). The fuel pump primes for two seconds then goes off. How can I test it to verify that it is 100% functional and not the cause for no spark.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

http://techauto.tripod.com/
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Thanks for the replies. I have realized that in the ON(II) position while fuel pump primes, I'm getting over 11 volts at the yellow/green fuel pump connector wire when grounded. However at the start position (cranking position) while engine is cranking the voltage to the fuel pump at yellow/green wire is only around 8 volts. I'm hearing/feeling all three clicks at main relay but I'm wondering if the connection somewhere is not sufficient. Any ideas as I really would like confirmation before purchasing more parts??

I also tried bypassing main relay as I read on the link above by shorting connection 1,3,7 on the main relay connector and that did NOT start the vehicle.
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Old 10-17-2011, 03:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

It's normal for battery voltage to drop around 9 volts while cranking. Try this.. Key off, remove your dizzy and snugly bolt one of the bottom tangs of the dizzy to the top tang of the head.. The drive of the distributor should now be oddly hanging above your valve cover in the air.. Plug one of your test plugs into one of your spark plug wires and let it sit on the head somewhere in a visible area.. with your key on, use one of the teeth on the distributor cam drive as a handle and rotate the distributor drive shaft.. Listen for injectors operating while you do it, and you can also see if you have spark at the same time..

What this tests is just about everything.. The dizzy has to be grounded (bolted to the head) to work properly. The ECU receives signal from the dizzy and once it finds cyl1 (Tdc sensor) and starts firing injectors (180 cam deg, or 360 crank deg) from ignition sequence.. If the ecu is getting a good signal, it will fire injectors and send a signal to the Ign module triggering the coil to spark. if there is a problem somewhere, it will not do either. (Once injectors start pulsing, you'll notice the fuel pump comes back on too.. you can hear fuel circulating in the fuel rail when this happens.)

Hope this helps some..
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

My 93 civic si hatch would start and drive but then just shut off and i wouldn't be able to start it again. It would be real finicky.. What it was, was the dizzy going out. I wasn't getting any spark at all. The last time it happened i wasn't able to start it back up. I had to go buy a new one. Hope that's not your problem, just something to keep in mind.
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Don't think it is the distributor as I've put two separate new aftermarkets in and same problem.

I just tested the pin on the ignition control module from the ECU with key in ON(II) position and get only 5.8 volts. I read somewhere in another thread that I should have battery voltage at that pin where the yellow/green wire attaches to icm from ecu.

Does this indicate the ECU is bad?? That same yellow/green wire has been tested for continuity and for short (continuity to ground) and there is continuity in the wire and no short present.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Anybody have any ideas as to why I'm not getting battery voltage to this connection on the ICM??
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Also the red/green wire at ECU PIN A21 Connector does not show any voltage when key in ON(II). This is the wire that runs from the ECU to the ICM and is yellow/green where it attaches to ICM.

Is there anybody that understands the electrical system that can help me diagnose this problem? I really need to get this running.

Also getting about 11 volts at A25 pin yellow/black wire.
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Has the timing belt snapped or stripped?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaMoose View Post
Also the red/green wire at ECU PIN A21 Connector does not show any voltage when key in ON(II). This is the wire that runs from the ECU to the ICM and is yellow/green where it attaches to ICM.
Is there any voltage at ECU A22 (Red/Grn wire)?

Do you have access to a known good ECU to swap in for testing purposes?
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Thanks for the help Ron.

The distributor rotor turns when engine is cranking so I don't think the timing belt is broken/stripped.

I disconnected ECU and am taking voltage measurements at the connector.
Now at connector A21 and A22 are both reading 5.75 volts with key in ON(II).

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a known good ECU at this time. Do you think that is the problem? if so I will search to find one.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:12 AM   #15
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I think it's time to try a known good ECU.
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Old 10-19-2011, 05:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I had to replace the ECU in my 93 del sol. I had similar starting problems.
I think 18 years on a P-28 ECU is about the limit.
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Old 10-29-2011, 04:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

ok, I'm really stumped here. This car was running fine until storage 4 years ago. Now it just doesn't get any spark. I've confirmed the main relay, distributor and ECU are all good with another Civic EX. What else could be the cause for no spark and no start??? Thanks for all the advice in advance.
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

How did you test for a short in the Yel/Grn wire?

If that wire is fine, then the aftermarket distributors are suspects.
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Last edited by RonJ@HT; 10-29-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 10-29-2011, 05:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I checked the yellow/green wire for continuity to ground. Positive end of probe on the yellow/green wire at distributor connector and put the other probe to body ground and there is no continuity. I put the ECU from my vehicle into another Honda Civic EX and it started right up. Did the same thing with my aftermarket distributor and main relay and the other Civic started right up so I know all those parts are good.

Tested again for spark at all plugs and I'm getting virtually no spark. If I look very closely I can barely see some dim sparking but it is virtually nonexistent and difficult to see.

Is it possible that when I removed the distributor and installed the new distributor I've screwed up the timing to the point where spark is so weak it is difficult to see? I never turned the engine over with the distributor out and It seems these distributors only go in one way.

When I installed it on the other Civic, it was installed correctly and started right up. Any other ideas. Thanks again.
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Old 10-29-2011, 06:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Are you able to push start the car?

Disconnect the starter solenoid wire and have a buddy hold the key in ON(III)/START while you measure voltage at the Blk/Yel wire attached to coil and igniter unit.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Hi Ron,
The car is automatic so I can't push start. After disconnecting the starter solenoid I am getting about 10.33 volts at the black/yellow wire connected to icm and coil in the ON(III) position. What can I try next to get some spark?
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

As gotz asked earlier, do all 4 fuel injectors click and pulse fuel when the engine is cranked?

Also, do these terminals in ECU connectors A and B have continuity to body ground:

A23, A24, A26, B2

Also, do these two terminals in ECU connectors A and B have battery voltage to body ground:

A25, B1
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Old 11-01-2011, 01:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

I'm not sure if the fuel injectors are pulsing. I have been under the hood quite a bit and can't really hear them while cranking the engine. But don't know if that is because the engine noise drowns their sound out. I don't get the feeling they are pulsing only because I don't recalling ever hearing them.

I do get continuity to body ground at ECU connector pins A23, A24, A26, B2

And Also do get battery voltage to body ground at ECU connector pins A25 and B1
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Old 11-01-2011, 02:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Remove the fuel rail along with the injectors and crank the engine. Do the injectors pulse fuel?
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Old 11-01-2011, 04:25 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1993 Civic EX 1.6L VTEC No Start No Spark

Hi Ron, I disconnected fuel rail with the injectors. The injectors were a bit loose almost ready to fall out of fuel rail. It is hard to see them pulse fuel because as soon as key is put to ON(II) fuel just gushes out It gushes out everywhere.
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