'03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last!
11-26-2002, 06:07 AM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last!
Anyone else get the January issue of Sport Compact Car?
This magazine had a shootout among the following 8 hot-rodded economy cars:
Honda Civic Si
Mini Cooper S
VW GTI 1.8T
Hyundai Tiburon V6
Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Ford Focus SVT
Mazdaspeed Protégé
Dodge Neon RTS-4
Well, to make a long story short, the ‘03 Civic Si came in dead stinkin’ last place. It had the least amount of horsepower of all and the magazine rated its handling inferior to the previous Si. And, while Honda has been back-peddling with regard to performance, other manufacturers have really stepped up to the plate with some much improved iron in this (increasingly crowded) category.
Anyone else read this article? Anyone think the magazine is way off base with its rating of the Civic? If so, please let me know. I only occasional read these magazines but from what I can tell I always figured SCC one was one of the more intelligent and substantive of the breed.
I’ve been a serious Honda fan since the late 80s. A buddy and me have bought several Hondas and Acuras in the past dozen years and loved them all for one reason or another. But lately, I think they’ve slipped. Replacing the CRX with the Del Sol was an early gaff but downgrading the Civic’s suspension when the car was redesigned for 2001 (7th generation) was much worse. Also, the RSX is not in keeping with the fun-but-affordable nature of the earlier Integras, etc … and I’ve already ruled out buying one of those.
I’m long overdue in replacing my ’95 Civic DX and am looking for a new car in the $20K range and after putting up with a fun-but-gutless Civic DX for nearly 8 years, I’m ready for something new, something with some zip. A buddy already pointed out the Mazdaspeed Protégé to me and it nearly won the above shootout. Only the Dodge Neon with its gobs and gobs of horsepower edged it out. So far, the Mazdaspeed Protégé is the direction I’m leaning with my forthcoming purchase (Spring-Summer ’03). But, the issue is still open for discussion.
--- Bror Jace
This magazine had a shootout among the following 8 hot-rodded economy cars:
Honda Civic Si
Mini Cooper S
VW GTI 1.8T
Hyundai Tiburon V6
Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V
Ford Focus SVT
Mazdaspeed Protégé
Dodge Neon RTS-4
Well, to make a long story short, the ‘03 Civic Si came in dead stinkin’ last place. It had the least amount of horsepower of all and the magazine rated its handling inferior to the previous Si. And, while Honda has been back-peddling with regard to performance, other manufacturers have really stepped up to the plate with some much improved iron in this (increasingly crowded) category.
Anyone else read this article? Anyone think the magazine is way off base with its rating of the Civic? If so, please let me know. I only occasional read these magazines but from what I can tell I always figured SCC one was one of the more intelligent and substantive of the breed.
I’ve been a serious Honda fan since the late 80s. A buddy and me have bought several Hondas and Acuras in the past dozen years and loved them all for one reason or another. But lately, I think they’ve slipped. Replacing the CRX with the Del Sol was an early gaff but downgrading the Civic’s suspension when the car was redesigned for 2001 (7th generation) was much worse. Also, the RSX is not in keeping with the fun-but-affordable nature of the earlier Integras, etc … and I’ve already ruled out buying one of those.
I’m long overdue in replacing my ’95 Civic DX and am looking for a new car in the $20K range and after putting up with a fun-but-gutless Civic DX for nearly 8 years, I’m ready for something new, something with some zip. A buddy already pointed out the Mazdaspeed Protégé to me and it nearly won the above shootout. Only the Dodge Neon with its gobs and gobs of horsepower edged it out. So far, the Mazdaspeed Protégé is the direction I’m leaning with my forthcoming purchase (Spring-Summer ’03). But, the issue is still open for discussion.
--- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 06:22 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (BlackDeuceCoupe)
Old news! Why do you think they're giving them away for $16k???
BTW, Mazdaspeed Protoge get's my vote
11-26-2002, 06:32 AM
#5
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (VTC_boost-less_CiViC)
Well, to make a long story short, the ‘03 Civic Si came in dead stinkin’ last place. It had the least amount of horsepower of all and the magazine rated its handling inferior to the previous Si. And, while Honda has been back-peddling with regard to performance, other manufacturers have really stepped up to the plate with some much improved iron in this (increasingly crowded) category.
Its a pig plain and simple, and ugly to boot.
Mazda -
11-26-2002, 07:01 AM
#6
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last!
Sorry if this is old news to most of you. I actually scrolled through 10 pages of threads to see if this has been brought up before but couldn't find anything. 
I've not yet been slummin' at dealerships and I don't know anyone else who's been seriously shopping for these kind of rides. I also don't get aroud these boards like I used to. Lastly, I just picked up that issue of SSC over the weekend and saw the news.
Hey, at $16K, I might just take the Honda. After all, it WOULD be a serious performance improvement over a silly little DX ... and being a Honda, it would likely last quite a while and I'd be able to get a fair amount of money out of it.
The main drawback to the Mazdaspeed are the two colors. I'm not too crazy about black (looks nice only when spotless - shows dirt to easily and is awfully hot in the summer) and that orange color might be a serious speeding ticket magnet ... in addition to having a high vomitorious quotient.
Who knows? I'll start swimming with the sleazebags in February and I'll be sniffin' for any serious deals that might still be in effect.
--- Bror Jace
I've not yet been slummin' at dealerships and I don't know anyone else who's been seriously shopping for these kind of rides. I also don't get aroud these boards like I used to. Lastly, I just picked up that issue of SSC over the weekend and saw the news.
Hey, at $16K, I might just take the Honda. After all, it WOULD be a serious performance improvement over a silly little DX ... and being a Honda, it would likely last quite a while and I'd be able to get a fair amount of money out of it.
The main drawback to the Mazdaspeed are the two colors. I'm not too crazy about black (looks nice only when spotless - shows dirt to easily and is awfully hot in the summer) and that orange color might be a serious speeding ticket magnet ... in addition to having a high vomitorious quotient.
Who knows? I'll start swimming with the sleazebags in February and I'll be sniffin' for any serious deals that might still be in effect.
--- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 07:13 AM
#7
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Market Share
Boostless: "Honda is catering more to the bottom line than to those who buy their cars, and I suppose in the bigger picture as a corp., you can't exactly blame them."
Well, this is what "The Big Three" did during the 80s. They protected profits and gave up market share, LOTS of it, as it turned out. It's a move they SERIOUSLY regret as people found better value elsewhere and developed brand loyalties with other companies. Wooing those customers back has been fairly unsuccessful. Honda should learn from their mistakes instead of making the same stupid move themselves.
Honda/Acura is building fewer cars but they are loaded up with more luxury junk many of its customers don't want or don't want to pay for (younger and/or performance-oriented people) and making greater profits in the short run. That's fine, but they are pokin' themselves in the long run as customers go elsewhere and buy several cars in succession from other manufacturers.
--- Bror Jace
Well, this is what "The Big Three" did during the 80s. They protected profits and gave up market share, LOTS of it, as it turned out. It's a move they SERIOUSLY regret as people found better value elsewhere and developed brand loyalties with other companies. Wooing those customers back has been fairly unsuccessful. Honda should learn from their mistakes instead of making the same stupid move themselves.
Honda/Acura is building fewer cars but they are loaded up with more luxury junk many of its customers don't want or don't want to pay for (younger and/or performance-oriented people) and making greater profits in the short run. That's fine, but they are pokin' themselves in the long run as customers go elsewhere and buy several cars in succession from other manufacturers.
--- Bror Jace
Trending Topics
11-26-2002, 07:43 AM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (mattcxb18)
Matt, that Neon sure did have the ponies ... but the car tested in the magazine is a prototype. It remains to be seen how many horses actually make it into the production models. Don't forget, they'll want to warranty whatever they end up selling. Notice how they suspected the VeeDubb had a 'juiced' engine? 
Also, Neon's haven't been the best cars made. The SRT-4, with its overabundance of power from a Chrysler 4-cylinder looks like a big yellow GRENADE to me.
In the above shootout, the Neon, Hyundai and VeeDubb were simply out of the question. I wouldn't buy them no matter how much power/handling they had or what kind of a 'deal' I could get on one.
I had been considering LEASING my next ride, driving it like I stole it for 2-3 years, then abandoning it at the showroom when the lease was up. That way, I could try out a brand of car I wouldn't DARE buy!
The dealerships generally don't care ... as long as you keep up the car's appearance. Problem is, leasing's a fairly expensive way to keep a set of wheels underneath you.
--- Bror Jace
Also, Neon's haven't been the best cars made. The SRT-4, with its overabundance of power from a Chrysler 4-cylinder looks like a big yellow GRENADE to me.
In the above shootout, the Neon, Hyundai and VeeDubb were simply out of the question. I wouldn't buy them no matter how much power/handling they had or what kind of a 'deal' I could get on one.
I had been considering LEASING my next ride, driving it like I stole it for 2-3 years, then abandoning it at the showroom when the lease was up. That way, I could try out a brand of car I wouldn't DARE buy!
The dealerships generally don't care ... as long as you keep up the car's appearance.
Problem is, leasing's a fairly expensive way to keep a set of wheels underneath you. --- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 07:50 AM
#12
Honda-Tech Member
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
Also, Neon's haven't been the best cars made. The SRT-4, with its overabundance of power from a Chrysler 4-cylinder looks like a big yellow GRENADE to me.
11-26-2002, 08:23 AM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 7,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (nijia555)
I don't mind the SVT Focus – used to have a ZX3, but I sold it after only 23,000 miles on it (lots of little BS that went wrong and stupid Ford wouldn't fix it).
They way I look at it is that the new Si was the slowest out out of the eight and if I remember correctly, had the lowest skidpad of them, too.
I think Honda is going to have to step things up a notch if they're going to compete with the turbo-fours from Mazda, Dodge, Subaru, VW, and Ford (apparently for ’04, the Focus is getting a turbo). However, Honda has never offered a turbo car from the factory in the US. Could the new CTR keep up to the competition? More horses than the Protege, the SVT, the Cooper S, and the 1.8T, but no factory turbo/supercharger to upgrade. We'll see what happens.
[Modified by Sushiboy, 11:24 AM 11/26/2002]
They way I look at it is that the new Si was the slowest out out of the eight and if I remember correctly, had the lowest skidpad of them, too.
I think Honda is going to have to step things up a notch if they're going to compete with the turbo-fours from Mazda, Dodge, Subaru, VW, and Ford (apparently for ’04, the Focus is getting a turbo). However, Honda has never offered a turbo car from the factory in the US. Could the new CTR keep up to the competition? More horses than the Protege, the SVT, the Cooper S, and the 1.8T, but no factory turbo/supercharger to upgrade. We'll see what happens.
[Modified by Sushiboy, 11:24 AM 11/26/2002]
11-26-2002, 08:33 AM
#14
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Montgomery Village, MD
Posts: 4,582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
I’m long overdue in replacing my ’95 Civic DX and am looking for a new car in the $20K range and after putting up with a fun-but-gutless Civic DX for nearly 8 years, I’m ready for something new, something with some zip.
[Modified by YumVTEC, 5:33 PM 11/26/2002]
11-26-2002, 08:50 AM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last!
I was thinking seriously of the Focus SVT for a while. After all, I love watching rallying (WRC) and Colin "Mad Man" McRae is my favorite driver. However, there's something wrong about a small, normally aspirated 4-cylinder car that has an EPA rating of 25mpg ... on the HIGHWAY! What am I missing? So, I've kinda scrubbed that dude off my wish list. McRae moving to Citroen didn't help either.
I have been around turbo'd and NA'd Chrsysler products and they haven't impressed me much. Too many bad motors and people being jerked around when it came time for warranty work. Maybe they've improved in the last handful of years ... but I wouldn't bet $20K on it.
The Mazdaspeed Protege seems a lot more like a street-legal racer than the rest. Besides, I just LOVE Speed World Challenge Touring Class racing!
--- Bror Jace
What am I missing? So, I've kinda scrubbed that dude off my wish list. McRae moving to Citroen didn't help either. I have been around turbo'd and NA'd Chrsysler products and they haven't impressed me much. Too many bad motors and people being jerked around when it came time for warranty work. Maybe they've improved in the last handful of years ... but I wouldn't bet $20K on it.
The Mazdaspeed Protege seems a lot more like a street-legal racer than the rest. Besides, I just LOVE Speed World Challenge Touring Class racing!
--- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 09:00 AM
#16
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, OR, USA
Posts: 7,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
Keep in mind the 1980s Chrysler turbo engines (2.2, 2.5 liter). You can make a pretty fast car for not a lot of $$$ (Omni GLHS comes to mind).
However, I wouldn't pay $20K for a Neon, no matter how fast it was – I wan't something that'd going to be as problem-free and well-built as possible. A Neon probably won't be that car.
However, I wouldn't pay $20K for a Neon, no matter how fast it was – I wan't something that'd going to be as problem-free and well-built as possible. A Neon probably won't be that car.
11-26-2002, 09:04 AM
#17
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Saratoga, NY, USA
Posts: 296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last!
sushiboy, I can't see me putting off replacing my car until '04. I guess we'll have to see if Honda gets their act together. It's not too late ... but it will be if they don't wake up and smell the exhaust fumes within the next few years.
YumVTEC: "Umm ... why don't you drop a dohc vtec swap into your 95 DX?"
Yeah, I get that reponse a lot. Basically, I don't have a shop to work in and need a reliable car right out of the box to get me back and forth to work. If I had a shop, the tools and a greater sense of adventure, I might make a proper project out of the '95 ... But I'd still need a daily driver while the Civic was all apart.
Besides, the '95 is showing tiny bubbles of rust here 'n there and I'm really itchin' for sumthin' brand new.
--- Bror Jace
YumVTEC: "Umm ... why don't you drop a dohc vtec swap into your 95 DX?"
Yeah, I get that reponse a lot. Basically, I don't have a shop to work in and need a reliable car right out of the box to get me back and forth to work. If I had a shop, the tools and a greater sense of adventure, I might make a proper project out of the '95 ... But I'd still need a daily driver while the Civic was all apart.
Besides, the '95 is showing tiny bubbles of rust here 'n there and I'm really itchin' for sumthin' brand new.
--- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 09:22 AM
#18
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
sushiboy, I can't see me putting off replacing my car until '04. I guess we'll have to see if Honda gets their act together. It's not too late ... but it will be if they don't wake up and smell the exhaust fumes within the next few years.
YumVTEC: "Umm ... why don't you drop a dohc vtec swap into your 95 DX?"
Yeah, I get that reponse a lot. Basically, I don't have a shop to work in and need a reliable car right out of the box to get me back and forth to work. If I had a shop, the tools and a greater sense of adventure, I might make a proper project out of the '95 ... But I'd still need a daily driver while the Civic was all apart.
Besides, the '95 is showing tiny bubbles of rust here 'n there and I'm really itchin' for sumthin' brand new.
--- Bror Jace
YumVTEC: "Umm ... why don't you drop a dohc vtec swap into your 95 DX?"
Yeah, I get that reponse a lot. Basically, I don't have a shop to work in and need a reliable car right out of the box to get me back and forth to work. If I had a shop, the tools and a greater sense of adventure, I might make a proper project out of the '95 ... But I'd still need a daily driver while the Civic was all apart.
Besides, the '95 is showing tiny bubbles of rust here 'n there and I'm really itchin' for sumthin' brand new.
--- Bror Jace
11-26-2002, 09:32 AM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
Anyone know what the stock tires are on the new Si? I wonder what SCC would say with some better tires on it...
When I test drove the EP hatch, I liked it better than my EM1. It has more torque and feels A LOT more solid. It handles well too. I think we shouldn't judge the car in stock form. You all know that it'll be different when it's modded! If I was in the market for a new car under/around $20k, I would be looking at the new Si or the Mazdaspeed. Over $20k, I would want a WRX.
Give it time and it'll grow on you...
When I test drove the EP hatch, I liked it better than my EM1. It has more torque and feels A LOT more solid. It handles well too. I think we shouldn't judge the car in stock form. You all know that it'll be different when it's modded! If I was in the market for a new car under/around $20k, I would be looking at the new Si or the Mazdaspeed. Over $20k, I would want a WRX.
Give it time and it'll grow on you...
11-26-2002, 10:51 AM
#21
HT White Ops
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (George Knighton)
1992: The '92 Civic Si EG hatch comes out, designed in England with a silly clamshell tailgate and <u>every</u>body hates it. "How could they take away the EF already? It was awesome! You'll never equal it!"
By 1993 they were selling correctly, and everyone worships them now.
By 1993 they were selling correctly, and everyone worships them now.
11-26-2002, 11:18 AM
#23
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 1,125
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (George Knighton)
I think once I get married, have a couple of kids, and need something with a little more space but not really ready to make the mini-van transitino. I will look into getting a 02 si.
11-26-2002, 11:43 AM
#24
New User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: USA
Posts: 917
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (George Knighton)
I helped a good friend get a Civic Si last night for $16,000 and it's good enough that I'm thinking of getting one for myself.
At $19,000 you could argue that there might be better buys out there. But at $16,000 it's pretty much a no-brainer.
I think when people in California start running across the Civic EP "Type S" conversions, the trend will start all over again, and people who buy an '02 for $16,000 will be getting a very good deal indeed.
my local honda dealership is offering 3.9% too
11-26-2002, 11:46 AM
#25
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Racine, WI, USA
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: '03 Civic SI: Dead Stinkin’ Last! (Bror Jace)
Also, Neon's haven't been the best cars made. The SRT-4, with its overabundance of power from a Chrysler 4-cylinder looks like a big yellow GRENADE to me.
they pull like low 14's in the 1320 don't they? with the horsepower they have it should be quicker.. But i guess it also has to do with the stock tires ( WHEELSPIN LIKE A **** ) and it's weight ( i believe aprox 2800lbs.)
I just wanna sit back and watch what happens for now..