mooseheads36

So in mid april this year I replaced the stock brakes with some EBC Sport rotors (slotted & dimpled) and matching EBC "Red Stuff" ceramic brake pads

Red stuff pads state on the box that they are for "highly tuned cars, the fastest of street driving AND entry level track use"...then on the back of the box it also states that if you use your brakes for track use or any type of racing or competition use then there is no warranty...does this sound right??

anyway so I'm driving for the last couple of days and notice a slight shudder in the brakes, never thought anything of it, just figured the rotor was slightly warped. I'm going out the highway yesterday I take my ramp and hit the brakes and they seem ok but when I get stopped at the lights I notice that my pedal is almost to the floor. I stop at 2 more sets of lights and don't notice anything really odd about them so I just figure maybe my fluid is low or something

I come to another light and go to slow down and my foot goes right to the floor, thankfully I was able to get stopped, I get to where I'm going because after it went to the floor the pedal got nice and solid again. I get out of the car and look at the brakes and there's brake dust everywhere (only on one wheel), I don't think much of it however when I go to leave I take a better look and notice that the problem is that the friction material on the pad is gone completely...the backing is still there but the pad is gone

I take it to my mechanic (just up the street) using nothing but my e-brake and tranny for braking (not driving fast at all, all side streets) he takes me home to get my old OEM pads and put them on temporarily, when he gets the "bad" pad off he looks at the inside pad and it's all cracked and somewhat even melted

He then takes of the other side also and finds that they are cracked and also one of them had a chunk missing out of the pad..I'm like WTF, these are supposed to be good pads

The only thing I've done with these pads that was "out of the ordinary" was I took a solo / lapping school at the local track (road course), spent approx. 1.5hrs on the track out of an 8 hour day

Somthing seem wrong with this picture??? I thought EBC was a good name in brakes...how can you sell "entry level track pads" then say that there's no warranty even when they basically fall apart??

Thanks in advance for any feedback...sorry for the long post

IT GUY

Ouch! That's no fun man... sorry it happened to you, but I'm glad I got the head's up on the red-stuff.. I was getting ready to do a brake upgrade on my hatch, but it won't be EBC now.

mooseheads36

yeah that's why I posted it, I don't recommend EBC at all...I've got an email into AJUSA where I bought them as well as EBC themselves

I will update thread when I get responses from either

Gilgamesh

Never used EBC, but I have hear from lots of people around here that they are just junk. FWIW, when I was at the track I LOVED my Cobalt brakes http://www.cobaltfriction.com Great stuff.

EDIT: I used to run GT Sports (light track use)

BAR296

Did you also change your brake fluid? Using stock fluid with upgraded pads will cause you to use up more brake. Track biased pads will heat up quicker and possibly boil stock fluid, since it is only good up to a certain temperature, and you'll need to press the brake harder and harder to get the same stopping power.

I as well recommend Cobalts, i use the GT-Sports, along with swapping the stock brake fluid with ATE SuperBlue. Also make sure you are bedding in the brakes properly as this is vital to the pad's life and stopping abilities.

huevosrancheros

Thats messed up, I had EBC green stuff brake pads on my Toyota Matrix and Old DC2 w/ no problems except the dust up a lot.

06civicracer

damn i need some brake pads badly

originalg00kster

damnn, never heard of EBC.

OEM FTW.

mooseheads36

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BAR296 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did you also change your brake fluid?

I as well recommend Cobalts, i use the GT-Sports, along with swapping the stock brake fluid with ATE SuperBlue. Also make sure you are bedding in the brakes properly as this is vital to the pad's life and stopping abilities.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't change the fluid because I didn't have time to get some before the track date. I shopped around locally and couldn't find a shop in town that sells performance brake fluid and by the time I figured out there was nothing local there wasn't enough time to order some in

Anyway I am going to run the superblue, I just have to order some and get it shipped. As for bedding in the brakes properly, after installation I got in and pumped the brakes 15-20 times to make sure they were seated properly plus I drove the car for 1000km before I went to the track so I can't see how they wouldn't be seated properly

I'm opent to any futher tips/tricks for bedding them properly

I got an email back from AJUSA.COM and all they said was "we're sorry for the inconvienience however it's a warranty issue and I need to contact EBC directy" which i've already done anyway so i'm waiting to hear back...but I don't know what to do because if this is how they are going to be then they are no good to me anyway

Gilgamesh

Screw the pads, get your cash back if you can, if not get new ones and eBay 'em if nothing, hit up the BBB in their area, etc.

IT GUY

"Being a hard wearing pad, bed-in times can be as long as 1000 miles and drivers must be patient until the pad takes up the shape of their disc (brake rotor)."

-EBC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Gilgamesh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Screw the pads, get your cash back if you can, if not get new ones and eBay 'em if nothing, hit up the BBB in their area, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no reason to hit up BBB. You bought a street pad and took it to the track. you don't think you'd get new OEM replacements if the same thing had happened with stock brakes do you? EBC makes track specific pads with warranties. It is disappointing you picked a pad for street and track that has no warranty for the track, but the red-stuff pads are advertised that way. I've heard bad things about them in the past as well, I don't think the OP is the first. Looking at Gilgamesh's post, I just don't wanna see too much hating on a multi-purpose pad for falling apart on the track.

mooseheads36

I'm not gonna bash EBC but these pads are quoted as being "entry level track pads" that's all that i'm annoyed about and i've managed to get a couple of pics of the pads they are below

I didn't buy "street pads" and take them on the track I took "entry level track pads" and used them for "entry level" use, I'm no full out race car driver that's for sure, this was the first time i've ever been on a track

As for the brake in, I drove 1000km at least, I don't know exactly how long it was before I went to the track. I can say that I put them on April 18th and they were at the track June 2nd and I drive 30km one way to work everyday so I think it's pretty safe to say that they were seated






Sorry for the quality, the camera's not the best

IT GUY

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive.html

redstuff are advertised as: Redstuff Superstreet Replacement Brakes

yellowstuff are advertised as: Yellowstuff Ultra High Friction Track & Street Replacement Brakes

"then on the back of the box (for redstuff) it also states that if you use your brakes for track use or any type of racing or competition use then there is no warranty..."

-quote from OP

I feel for ya man, but it doesn't look like the redstuff are really entry level track pads. They seem to be a "high performance OEM replacement"

if this means anything, we are talking about a brand of brakes that pep-boys and o'reiley's sells.

edit: Nasty Pics BTW... those pads look terrible man.. glad you figured out what was up before you could have gotten hurt




Modified by IT GUY at 5:21 PM 6/11/2007

BAR296

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mooseheads36 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

As for bedding in the brakes properly, after installation I got in and pumped the brakes 15-20 times to make sure they were seated properly plus I drove the car for 1000km before I went to the track so I can't see how they wouldn't be seated properly

I'm open to any futher tips/tricks for bedding them properly
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is, in no way, going to bed the brakes in. You have to REALLY work them into the rotors. Between not bedding the pads and using stock fluid is most likely why the pads failed/melted. At this point you may also want to check your rotors. If they have deep grooves in them (like an old record) you may want to get them milled down or replaced.

I just did a track day with 15 minute sessions. Between using the ATE Superblue and Cobalt pads on stock rotors my brakes still faded and got soft. so that just shows how much abuse your breaks take and how hot they really get on the track.

Here is a good guide to use when bedding in higher compound brake pads.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

i recommend finding a large parking lot away from a busy street to avoid unwanted attention (i used a high school parking lot on a saturday evening)

The new Coblat GT-Sports use a new compound that dont requier full bedding, but i still did it for safety and personal comfort.

mooseheads36

from what the link describes as a "bed in cycle" (great link by the way, thank you), it looks like I did one proper bed in cycle about a week before I went to the track however by this time maybe it was to late?? I'm not sure

Just after I installed the brakes I was on they highway early in the AM going to work and I did 2-3 hard brakes from 60+ to 10 or 20MPH then back up again pretty much as it describes but not enough by the sounds of it, then a week before the track session I went on some back roads and really got the brakes warmed up. They REALLY stunk even at the track...there was a guy behind me that said he could smell my brakes two corners behind me, I just figured this was normal where they were still fairly new but by the sounds of it maybe they weren't fully bedded in

To bad I didn't see that link a month ago

Thanks for all the input guys I still haven't heard anything from anyone @ EBC, I may be **** out of luck, but hopefully I get lucky and get them replaced

IT GUY

good link bar296

SMoLiK

Yea' I know people who run EBC on multiple types of cars... Usually Green Stuff though, RED usually too harsh...

SMo'

piotrush

Stock rotors, axxis ultimate pads, ate superblue fluid is all you need - slotted/drilled rotors just eat pads faster, and with a good pad don't provide any shorter stopping distances over blank rotors. If anything they give poorer distances due to less surface area on the rotor. Go do some research in the road race/auto-x forum and see how folks there feel about them.

Also, judging from what I heard about EBC in the past as well as this post, I wouldn't call their product quality. I'm not certain but I'm guessing that they just drill/groove blank rotors and sell them that way, as opposed to the proper way which is to cast them with the drill holes/grooves already in them - resulting in a much stronger rotor. Alot of the guys who compete in their preludes swear by brembo or napa blank rotors, never seen any of them use drilled or slotted.

Sorry about your mishap, but check out the race forums and see what people are running nowadays

BAR296

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by piotrush &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Alot of the guys who compete swear by napa blank rotors</TD></TR></TABLE>
a lot of the ITR guys do this too. like $30 for a front set and then they have them cut once or twice and then just get new rotors again. much cheaper than buying OEM everytime

Your Welcome guys! Dont worry i was in the same position not too long ago, that why i'm so eager to pass info like this on to you all. On my old car i was driving around with glazed rotor for a while because i didnt know about all of this stuff.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mooseheads36 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it looks like I did one proper bed in cycle about a week before I went to the track however by this time maybe it was to late?? I'm not sure

I did 2-3 hard brakes from 60+ to 10 or 20MPH then back up again pretty much as it describes but not enough by the sounds of it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You wanna make sure you get the Blue tint on the rotors, that is a key sign of a good bed job

blue2ksi

only use race pads on a track. "entry level" aren't meant for use at higher temperature and will quickly fall apart and temperatures out of their bounds.

mooseheads36

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blue2ksi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">only use race pads on a track. "entry level" aren't meant for use at higher temperature and will quickly fall apart and temperatures out of their bounds.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ok so not to be a smart *** but if that's the case then they shouldn't adverstise them as "entry level track pads"

mooseheads36

Finally got an update from EBC (had to call, no response to email), they said no problem they would just ship out the new pads with a return waybill and ship the old ones back for "quality control", but then they found out I live in Canada and they don't know what they are going to do now...sometimes I HATE living north of the border

mooseheads36

So today I finally get a reply from EBC, here it is

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These pads have been used for race track driving and have been subjected to temperatures well over 1000 degrees which has simply burnt them up as seen by the white burnt edges and the fact that the paint is totally burnt off.

There is no warranty for race track use of this kind and that is the ONLY way this could have happened

Thanks Andy
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

have been subjected to temperatures well over 1000 degrees?? my fluid is only the stock fluid, don't you think i would have boiled my fluid if the brakes got that hot???

Anyway I replied to him and it looks like I'm screwed, I would suggest for people to STAY AWAY from EBC brakes... So much for "entry level track pads", I'm some glad AND lucky that I didn't actually race on them, it could have been disaterous, I guess "Entry level" just means THINKING about racing because all I did was took a solo / lapping school and they fell apart doing that

Considering even the instructor thought I was being "too easy" on the brakes that I should trust them more and use them harder...some glad I didn't listen to him


Modified by mooseheads36 at 1:49 PM 6/15/2007

IT GUY

I never could find on EBC's site where they claim the RedStuff as an "entry-level track pad" in fact they say not to use them at the track

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/redstuffinfo.html

for track use they suggest yellowstuff or better.. still sucks for you though

mooseheads36

says right on side of the box in the description of the pad that they are "entry level track pads", I don't have the box right here but it does say that...then on the back it says no warrantee