6SpeedTA95

Has anyone successfully improved the steering feel of these vehicles? If so how did you do it? The SI steering compared with the mazda3 steering is rather lifeless. Its deadly accurate and the car does a reasonable job resisting understeer. Bigger sway bars front and rear maybe? Along with 18 inches wheels with slightly lower profile tires to increase turn in and off center response...and perhaps stiffer shocks/springs?

Not sure if its simply the electric box that is the problem which means its not really fixable or if there are things that people are doing to at least help the sitution.

ajpturbopittsburgh

I didn't know it was that bad to begin with. Everyone that rides with me always comment on how we are going faster than what they thought.

215 45 17 is a pretty decent oem tire package. In stock form I thought the car was very agile.

I have since upgraded to HFP suspension, Eibach front and rear sway bars and I'm glad I didn't listen to people's advice when I selected my wheel and tire package of Accord HFP 19" X 8" 55mm offset with 245/30/19. My response is razor sharp. I couldn't be happier

6SpeedTA95

Someone riding with you has no way of knowing anything about steering feel...going faster than you think also has nothing to do with steering feel and feedback provided by the road surface and tires, I guess I didn't make myself clear in the first post...

I am specifically looking at ways to increases the sensations and feelings comething through the steering rack to my hands...go drive a porsche, BMW, Mazda3 if you are having a hard time understanding what I mean...find some twisty roads and pay attention to the steering, especially in the porsche and mazda stuff its almost telepathic, its basically the car communicating with its driver, the civic is good the steering is accurate but lacks the feel of the mazda3...there are typically things you can do to a car to improve this, the things I mentioned earlier and things like different bushings generally help but I am not as familiar with the SI's as I am other vehicles, so I'm trying to learn.

Is it any clearer now?

ajpturbopittsburgh

Sorry not any clearer.....You are way too sophisticated for me.....probably everyone else on here too....haha ah yes....would you care to drive my porsche this fine day my good man and see if you can appreciate the exquisite steering feel.

6SpeedTA95

Not trying to be "sophisticated" it has less to do with car pricing, some cars are built with great steering feel in mind, the three I mentioned are tops at it...

It makes a big difference when racing and I do plan on racing my next vehicle autox and roadcourses which is why I'm asking...the SI steering is precise and its chassis is an excellent balance for an out of the box chassis, just looking for suggestions to get some feedback to teh wheel.

sleeper_civic

I agree that it is nowhere near as good as the Mazda 3. Typically people go to a lower profile tire but I think ours is almost maxed out. There just are not a lot of mods that can drastically improve steering feel.

ajpturbopittsburgh

Maxed out? What are you talking about? That doesn't even make any sense

kccord

I feel what you meant when I drove my dad's Mazda 3, the steering feels as if it was supposed to be. I think that it deals with more of the pinion and rack ratios, if I turned the steering half a turn, the car would turn into the corner at greater angle compared to my accord.

ajpturbopittsburgh

I drove a 2006 Mazda 3 and it had electric power steering that sucked donkey nuts.

oh god it's happening again.

6SpeedTA95

Ummm what? If you drove a mazda3 with bad steering there's one of two things, the car had a problem or you dont know what good steering is supposed to feel like, its just that simple. And mazda3's dont have electric steering, FYI.

The new 2010s have an electric pump on a hydralic system. But neither generation has an all electric system.

ajpturbopittsburgh

Well there was no power steering pulley with a serpentine belt going around it. So I'm guessing electric.

6SpeedTA95

It isn't an electric system, it maybe electrohydralic...my wife's car requires fliud, its not an all electric system...I'd have to look and see if its a mechanical pump or not.

RICO_

One way or another....you'll quickly realize that just because a car has a better steering "feel" doesn't mean it's gonna handle better.

You seem to be a big fan of Mazda....I don't blame you....they're making pretty decent cars right now. But they still can't match up to Honda. The Si is still a better handling car and still gets near-equal gas mileage and much better power output than the beefier 2.5L 2010 Mazda 3.

I have my car sitting on Skunk2 Pro-C coilovers and tweaked the alignment specs and the turning response has improved quite a bit. Putting a softer spring rate in the front has also helped out with the notorious understeer that the Si is known for. So all in all my car feels pretty well-balanced so far......and that's before adding sway bars.

6SpeedTA95

I agree the SI chassis is superior, feel doesn't mean a car handles better but if you can get feedback from your vehicle its easier to approach the limits, and as i said I will be racing this next vehicle so improving the feel if its doable would be a priority...but yeah the chassis is better on the SI.

Good to know, I know firmer springs and adding a bit of camber to the SI should help quite a bit...

SI I remember driving resisted understeer pretty well for a FWD car but it was an 07 SI...have there been changes? Also its important to not ei was only pushign the car at 8/10th's so at 9/10ths or 10/10ths its possible the understeer gets ugly...

sleeper_civic

I don't know where you live but most including myself would consider going to a 35 aspect ratio a bad option on the street. I've never even looked for a tire that thin but I'm sure they exist. The first time you hit a decent pot hole you would crack a rim. By maxed out I meant in terms of aspect ratio we are at the limits of what I would do on the street.

I get what the op is getting at though. If you have a car that is faster but because of bad chassis communication you can only use 70% of the performance, then a car that offers 80% of your performance but where the driver can use all of the performance will be faster. Drive a lot of cars and you'll find the Mazda 3 and especially the Miata just offer much better steering feel.

ajpturbopittsburgh

I actually think there is a 25 aspect ratio tire out there. And just because the aspect ratio number is smaller doesnt' mean it's always thinner. The aspect ratio is a percentage of the tire width. So I have a pretty wide tire, I actually am running an overall tire diameter that is right in between the stock 17 wheel and the HFP 18 wheel and tire. But that's a whole other topic.

And I'm just careful and haven't had a problem yet. I live in pittsburgh so yeah the roads are shitty

Kidnkorner

Actually swapping the front Si swap bar for a LX/EX unit and keeping the stock rear unit.


18's will hurt performance. Unless you are leaving the door open for BBK. the heaviest part of the wheel tire combo is the tire and the further you push this weight out from the center axis the more performance takes a hit, decreased acceleration, increased braking distances, poorer cornering. Up sizing to a 18" wheel tire combo may also increase unsprung weight. From a performance aspect you want the smallest wheel you can get that will clear the brake caliper.

Electric power steering is not as responsive as traditional but if you got the cheese you can have custom components made to change the ratio.

6SpeedTA95

Mugen runs 18s with factory brakes with no ill results...which are the wheels I was considering, they are lighter than the standard SI wheel FYI.

I would also like to upgrade the brake rotors and calipers if necessary to something more like a 13 inch rotor. any ideas?

Kidnkorner

I think that the Mugen has a bit more on Tap than the Si in every aspect. Go to any HPDE and see what racers are doing if you really want to know. The only other reason to run a larger diameter wheel is to be able to run a brand/size specific tire that you couldn't get in a smaller diameter, tough argument though.

As far as the brake thing goes youd be better suited with cryo treated Brembo blanks, stainless braided lines, Hawk HP pads and some high temp brake fluid would be better.

EDIT: I realized you were talking about the Mugen Si, in which case I recall a very prominent media source testing it calling it a pig.

6SpeedTA95

I've got brembo blanks with hawk HPS on my maxima now, EXCELLLENT combo I must say, the small rotors concern me but I've received a PM from a guy who knows his **** that said the small rotors are fine as long as you upgrade to a quality rotor.

I'm not opposed to sticking with 17s and just finding a lighter sent, I believe the factory wheels weigh an absurd 21lbs unless I misread that somewhere...

sleeper_civic

Again I agree on the aspect ratio. For me the same thing applies where me and my wheel bearings don't find spacers a good idea so we don't have a whole lot to work with width ways to keep that thickness the same. I've been around a while in the scene and just believe some mods aren't worth the headache on a mainly street driven car. Track warrior then throw out everything I've said.

i-VTEC_DOHC

there are multiple aftermarket parts that increase the handling of the si. take for example, cusco now makes the h brace and some other brace underneath the front to reduce subframe/chassis flex

ffswizzlestick

I don't think anything is going to "help" the steering feel. I still don't understand what the problem is. Everyone keeps saying that the car handles well, but that they don't like the steering feel. I guess you can worry about how the car feels rather than how it actually performs though.

6SpeedTA95

If you've never spent time on a track then it wont be important to you, if you have with multiple cars you'll know what I'm getting at...the car handles well...

TunerN00b

Install steering quickener
Increase caster

Careful with the first one for a street driven car that needs to be able to parallel park...