Mattgrimes

It seems that "Engine Braking" is a controversial issue as to whether it does or does not wear your clutch/engine from my recent searches on google, and I couldn't seem to find a straight answer. Nor could I find any threads already on the site about it.

question #1: DOES double clutch down shifting(clutch engaged in high gear, disengage, put car in neutral, engage and rev engine to proper RPMs, disengage clutch and shift to a lower gear, engage to catch clutch at proper RPM) or standard down shifting* then letting off the gas while in gear* to slow down cause EXCESS* wear on the clutch or engine?

question #1 1/2: Does Just letting off the gas at high RPM's (in VTEC window) or any RPM and letting the engine slow the car down cause excessive wear?

*(original, misinforming topic title: Double Clutch Engine braking, Wears Clutch/Transmission?)


Edit: All I really want to know: Is engine braking bad for your engine?

Kidnkorner

LOL @ double clutching a synchronized street driven vehicle. You make me laugh, next thing you know you will want to drive my Cascadia.

It may reduce clutch wear some what but what need is there to double clutch a synchronized transmission on the street?

If you are worried about clutch wear you need to get an automatic or use your brakes. What costs more, a brake job or a clutch job?

What wear do YOU think is occurring by letting off the fuel decelerating?

FijiBlueFG2

LOL @ not synchro-matching any vehicle.

i-VTEC_DOHC

any use of the clutch is going to wear it down.

Kidnkorner

Yeah because that's what every car and transmission manufacturer tell you to do in their respective owners manual.
Dude, you have to be the biggest moron I have EVER come across. That's what they are for, to synchronize the speed of the 2 gears so they will accept each other. Sychro matching, the only purpose to do this is in racing, clown.

FijiBlueFG2

What is the point of not synchro-matching? Synchronized transmissions exist to help the driver shift more smoothly and safely, not to completely control the engine speed on its own. Not synchro-matching is just lazy. Go buy one of those tiptronic vehicles.

You don't have to synchro-match, but you should. Just like... You don't have to use you turn signals when switching lanes, but you should. You don't have to wear your seatbelt, but you should.

2008fijibluesi

You can't get a ticket for failing to synchro match...not in NJ at least.

T3KNiQe

Yeah what he said

chawski

I dont get it... people say they downshift to save their brakes, but a set of pads costs what, $50 for good ones? A new clutch will run you a few hundred installed.

FijiBlueFG2

Truth.

But you really want to have to always be changing your brake pads? I'd rather just throw a new clutch in every 5-6 years.

HondaHead211

if your coming to a stop there is no reason to double clutch, sychros r there for a reason...theyre a great invention. i double clutch when im "aggressively" driving, ie driving on a twisty road, passing a car. i find that double clutching is best suited when you plan on immediately using the gear you are downshifting to. double clutching when your coming to a stop is a waste of clutch and technical footwork.

Si87

whats the point of double clutching? the car doesn't pack enough power to really race and its not RWD so you can't use it to drift...

I understand on a muscle car when your taking an aggressive turn (or accelerating hard) or on a tuner car when your drifting, but on this car I just don't see the point.

Mattgrimes

First off, I've only downshifted to engine break probably 3 times, to see what it feels like/ what the hubbub is about. I agree it is an inefficient way to slow down and I don't do it, I was just curious. Although there is this windy valley near my house that I was having some fun through the other day, and was letting the engine slow the car down. Hence why I was curious about the issue.

I do double clutch down shift/synchro-match for smoothness purposes/ tight situations.
If you go from 6 to 3rd at 50 mph and just drop the clutch its going to lurch like ****,
And if you slowly let out the clutch until the synchro's match up that will take a few seconds and the car still lurches. If you double clutch and synchromatch you can't even feel the downshift (until you hit the gas of course).

It was just a simple question as to whether it would significantly decrease to life of my clutch or other engine parts.

i-VTEC_DOHC

i hope you know that when you're idling and you let out the clutch, you're putting wear on it.

2 pennies

TunerN00b

Nope. In fact, it helps prevent wear, at any RPM you would normally run the engine at.

In gear and decelerating, the fuel is cut. You have the engine turning over (being driven by the wheels), but no combustion events. Oil pressure is kept up, coolant is circulating, but no heat or pressure is being generated. Pumping air through the engine will allow the air itself to help cool the cylinder as well.

If instead you put the car in neutral, the engine would have to idle, which means fuel and combustion, which means heat and wear.

And since you get compression braking, you get brake pad wear reduction as well.

T3KNiQe

Heel toe people, I've done it for tens of thousands of miles on several cars. Can't say my pads or clutch have had any excessive wear, just normal wear I guess.

You people are worrying way to much about stuff you can't even control. You only "engine brake" when you rev match, weather you heel toe or just rev the engine up to rev match it doesn't matter. You can feel what's hard on the engine and clutch, what's abuse and what isn't. To make a thread and argue about each others driving style, is well, pointless.

And double clutching is great, but depending on the tranny its also pointless. Don't be misinformed that if you double clutch your doing wonders for your clutch and synchros.

08SiFreak

You should downshift in ANY car before taking an agressive turn...

Kidnkorner

yes, ALL synchronized transmissions in NON racing situations.

Mattgrimes

I know. I know using the clutch putting wear on it, i'm not an idiot. I was asking if engine braking speeds up wear of engine parts. And still, Some people are saying it does, some people are saying it's better to leave it in gear than let it idle.

What are you saying about heel toe?
that you heel toe downshift and then let off the break at lights or something?
I heel toe sometimes in corners, just to know how to do it, but I don't really see how that correlates to engine breaking.

Tokyosmash!

X2.

Kidnkorner

WOW dude, you just lost all your credibility with me. But then again backing up a moronic statement like that for a street driven vehicle I'm sure you aren't too worried about my approval.

Transmission manufacturers may as well stop putting synchronizers in them altogether and go back to the days of Austin-Healy's.

FijiBlueFG2

I rarely use my brakes. Shall they stop putting brakes on cars as well?

I've come to the conclusion that Kidnkorner is either a mechanic, or an employee of a Honda dealership.

All he wants us to do is things that are awful for our cars. "Never change you oil!" "Wear out your synchros!"

When my engine fails and I HAVE to rev-match, in order to shift, I know who i'll blame.

Kidnkorner

I'd say I have at least 15 years of experience on you. I have driven all sorts of vehicles, from 18 wheel commercial vehicles to midget dirt track cars to Paladin A6 Howitzers. I have been into Honda's before there was an aftermarket for them, while you were dreaming about Laborghinis and Ferrari's as a snot nose kid.

Of the Honda's I have owned 2 had in excess of over 300k miles each that never had their transmissions rev matched and they NEVER had a synchro problem, infact the 1 Honda I did have synchro issue with was because of slamming the shifter into 2nd gear all the time when I completed my 1st B16 swap back in late 1996.

You keep rev-matching to stop signs and traffic lights, just don't say anything when you get laughed at, speed racer.

By the way, I love your health care statement, another subject you have no knowledge about.

FijiBlueFG2

I was never into supercars.

I simply prefer the feel of rev-matching to not rev-matching, and being able to accelerate at any given time.

As for UHC, I'd love to take you on. You may have more car knowledge than me, but when it comes to politics, I highly doubt it.

Kidnkorner

If HC should remain the same or the government should keep out then why should the government continue to subsidize corn and give our tax dollars to other nations? Did you know that every corn crop would lose money and the only money they make is the federal subsidies they are given? Charity starts at home. I suppose that if people can't afford their own education they don't deserve an education, better stop Pell grants.

UHC > subsidized corn > money to Israel