lucsho

Easy. Look at the numbers. Look at what sells and what doesn't in different parts of the world. People of different places have different tastes and car manufacturers react to that if they want to sell and compete. For example, in Europe, nine of ten cars are with a manual transmission; the trend is the exact opposite over here. Europeans prefer hatchbacks; we prefer sedans it seems. Just look at the numbers, at what sells and what doesn't. Manufacturers do... Our Civic and the Euro Civic are different cars; maybe they should have different names, but they both are a respond to their respective market.

GoLowDrew

I agree with this statment more. Gen 6 Civic HB did have some volume. Not as much as the coupes or sedans, but I see no reason not to devlope it and make it "global," instead of a different car. It was also a time when Honda was going gang busters with the coupes/sedans during the glory years. HB was not bad, it just sold less than the coupe sedan. It did not help that the Si was not a HB anymore.

Once Honda stop selling the HB, people stop demanding it. So one does follow the other. Kind of hard now to convince Honda to bring back the HB as a business case. The ship has sailed (for Honda), and make no financial sense to bring it back.

Then again, Ford is setting a new example. There are more Fiesta HB (5 doors) than sedan sold in the US.

Todd00

They can keep the Euro Civic and its beam rear axle off of our shores for all I care. The Civic we currently have is a better car, despite it being 95% that the 06-11 car was.

Just a few tweaks is all the current car needs and it will continue to sell well until its replacement comes out in a few years.

vladd

Apparently Europeans thought the 02-05 Civic was too plain looking (from what I've read), so Honda designed the next one just for them.

shawnperolis

I'm pretty sure everyone thought the 02-05 Civic Si was too plain looking.

BrandneW

Idk looks wierd i rather stay wit the 12

mr_y82

IMO the civic needs more than a mild remodeling in regards to exterior styling... the 4th and 5th gen ludes... those were sexy cars... that being said, I do own a 12 Si (and also a 92 h22a/m2b4 swapped lude)... Apart from the rev hang, slightly too soft suspension, etc... I agree with the statements about mechanical quality, interior design layout etc... we test drive a mazda3 skyactiv as a potential trade and decided to keep the Si because it's a more satisfying car, not just due to the power, but the refinement and design... We test drove quite a few things before we got the Si (which we ironically didn't get to test drive as we ordered it) and it held it's own.

There's a lot the lude offers that I prefer both mechanically and aesthetically, but I respect that cars are evolving and believe the 9th gen is a nice car. My wife really likes the Si, and when she is able to work more consistently (she has Chronic Lyme Disease) it is intended as her daily driver... otherwise I would have been more inclined to get a 96-01 civic shell with the double wishbone rear, slap a "new" motor and LSD in there with a nice sport suspension and called it a car.

monkeysuit

Meh it doesnt look too bad, i rather of them to stick with the concept for 2012, show below

danwat1234

I too would like to see a diesel Civic in the USA! Although I don't see the market since the cost of diesel is so much more and so regular consumers won't want it probably.
I've heard that the new 'Honda Dreams' engines for small engines will have Direct injection gas engines with an Atkinson/Miller cycle behavior at low throttle levels. The engines larger than 2L won't have Atkinson cycle behavior but will be DI at least.
Hopefully they'll get better with turbo technology and put a 1.4L or something in it with a turbo for fuel economy.
They could do what Subaru "might" be doing, with an electrically assisted turbocharger to reduce turbo lag. Rumored for the future WRX..

Engines are going to get very exciting and more complex in the coming years..

I have a 1999 Civic and love it. It's very moddable, good suspension, reliable. I'll probably be driving it in 30 years still. Well maybe I'll be driving an electric car by then. My next car will be electric/plug-in hybrid for sure. But I don't think the car will ever die.

lucsho

Great! My point exactly. Some people prefer the current style while others would like to see a more radical style, like the European version, while staying a Honda. That is why Honda should have both cars here, to rally EVERYONE and to laugh at the competition by being the number 1 by a very long margin... and to shut up the critiques once for all!

Steezer

Honda's ruining the civic
keep the civic simple honda.... you guys are trying to hard with all the facelifts and ****, its getting disgusting

Arthas

For those of you that like the 9G, how long did it take for it to grow on you?

I still cant get myself to like it, it looks too much like a Corolla or a Dodge lol. I know I like the 8G right away.

98 ITR

I hope to hell they do something with the 2013 Si that gets it closer to the performance of its rivals ... anything.

From an engine standpoint, they had everything at their fingertips already to make the 2012 Si a truly impressive performer. Take the existing 8th generation K20 engine, transmission, LSD, everything ... increase displacement to 2.4L. That's it! I don't understand why that would be such an absurd notion?

HP would probably land somewhere in the 220+ range, you would get your 25-30% increase in torque, a good tune would keep gas mileage respectable and emissions goals in check, and they wouldn't have had to go through the hassle of launching a new engine platform. Everyone is happy. The torque guys, the high RPM guys, everyone. It seems like such an easy solution?! The last Si that had a 7K RPM red line was the EP3, and look at what a triumphant flop that car was (Except, once again, a very capable chassis). Didn't they learn? Very frustrating!

With regards to suspension, make the HFP kit standard. The work is already done.

Other than that, IMHO and FWIW, I think the Si (especially with the HFP kit) is gorgeous. It is just such a performance disappointment, I couldn't justify it (I'm in the market too).

This situation totally reminds me of the 2008 Subaru WRX when it first arrived in showrooms. Brand new body style, but with the same old boring 224HP 2.5, and soft suspension to boot. It took the media no more than a month to completely tear that car apart and call it out for what it actually was ... not a WRX. One year later, it's a fire-breathing 265HP monster. Bigger turbo, some STI suspension bits and that's all it took. Honda really has the opportunity to make things right here, so I'm anxiously waiting to see what happens.

I can understand Honda wanting to keep the Si subdued in the past, as not step on the heels of its more powerful and expensive Acura counterpart (think Integra GSR/Type R, RSX Type S), but those cars don't exist any more. If you look at the Honda/Acura lineup, the Si has a totally vacant playing field in which to grow and develop. I just don't understand why they keep trying to pigeonhole it into some imaginary mold any more. There's no need. The market for a car like this is alive and well too ... just look at the Si's competition.

Anyways, /rant. Sorry, haven't posted in a while.

Paste

I like it. But I like the new Fiat Gucci version.

Todd00

The 2.4L motor would have incredible piston speeds @ 8000+ rpm's and no OEM would be insane enough to warranty that motor for 3/36.

Point being, there is a reason why the 2.4L does not rev as high. Sure, it could safely rev a bit higher, but anything beyond 7600rpms would be pushing it.

As well, the 2.0L motor wasnt enough for the 8th gen Si. It was fun to rev, but it was a challenge in normal driving due to the lack of torque in such a heavy chassis.

And for the record, the EP3 chassis was a complete failure. Very poor suspension geometry, lack of travel, and a chassis that was better suited for a small SUV. That car was fail from day one. Same for the RSX, but at least it was a nice looking car.

As for 8th vs 9th gen, the 9th gen is a better all-around car. Better chassis, a few suspensions issues were fixed, 2.4L motor, lighter, etc. All the 9th gen needs is a proper suspension setup and folks will be raving about it. Honda, for some reason, made the car softer, so people think it is worse. In reality, the 9th gen is a better starting point if you want to make a car that handles well.

98 ITR

Interesting points about the 2.4L, and when I think about it, you are correct in saying so. Perhaps a 2.2 might have been a little more realistic. The F22C would be a testament to a 2.2L that revs to 8K, and is warrantied. 160lbs of torque or so would be plenty for the Si, and the overall extra power output would take care any complaints of every day driveability. I drive a K20A every day and torque is a non issue, even in a 2800lbs car.

My point being, Honda did have the tools to create a power-plant with more torque while keeping the power in the higher RPM's. They chose to go the Sentra SER route instead.

Regarding the EP3 chassis being a complete failure, I respectfully disagree. I know both of us are old Type R owners and I'm actually a few seconds quicker on the circuit in the EP3 than the Type R. The EP3 chassis is incredibly stiff, but requires a much different approach. Throttle lift over-steer is very aggressive in that car, and you really need to pay attention to it in order to make the car rotate the way you want. Very simple modifications to suspension (aka a respectable ride height that doesn't mess with your roll center) and brakes on the EP3 will make a world of difference. It was just set up terribly from the factory in the USDM/CDM. And I'm not just saying this because I happen to drive one at the moment btw. There is still lots about the EP3 that I'm not a fan of.

My personal beef with the 9th gen has nothing to do with how "soft" it is. The HFP kit will address those concerns. The engine, on the other hand, is mess. Just goes to show you the profound impact the Civic being discontinued in Japan has made. The JDM market would have never accepted this Civic with open arms. Neither am I. Revving up to 8K+ was the only endearing quality that was unique to Honda performance engines. You take that away, and the car fades in to the background. Only other thing to note was the interior plastics ... needs some updating.

Anyways, take my opinions with a grain of salt. By no means stating fact, just opinion.

Steezer

maybe the 2013 needs a 2.0L with a decent turbo? Has honda even maybe a turbocharged car? lol come one Honda your falling behind all the other imports and embarrassing us. try a turbo setup on just one trim for just one year and see how it works out. LISTEN TO US HONDA damnit!

98 ITR

The 2013 UKDM Civic Type R is a 2.0L Turbo making 210HP. Honda has some pretty cool cars going right now, just not here in North America.

Steezer

pshhh ONLY 210hp with a turbo? wow thats just a ****ing shame

setsail

c'mon 30MPG

mr_y82

Agreed,

The 2012 chasis is stiffer...unfortunately they did go softer on the suspension, but that is more easily "fixed"... Overall I don't mind the lower redline of the k24... I guess I am old, but I appreciate the extra torque and do most my spirited driving between 4 and 5k anyway... It's nice to wind it up sometimes, but I can save that more my h22 lude.

I've heard mixed things about the ep3 suspension (mostly bad), and overall I don't think it is too fair or realistic to compare the 2012 Si to it... I understand there are a lot of disappointed people, but how many of them have driven a 2012 before judging it... I don't think it has as much to fault as the ep3...

If you want a fast car, the Si was never it... if you want a respectably fun DD, the new Si has the goods (I speak from experience... 6+ months, 8,000 miles... 31mpgs (29-30 on paper)... I have also driven the 8th gen... not much, but enough to safely say it was not vastly superior to the 2012...

I think you have some good points... but qualms with the engine may apply more to someone wanting to build the motor... i.e. the cast on exhaust mani, etc... Personally I would buy an older car to build and use a k24 block, k20 head, etc... or just shove a v6 j in the lude, lol...

mir_hatchy

i honestly like and perfer all the euro style civics even though its completly diferent !

Bucc-i

I heard that based on the sucess of the CR-Z that Honda was going to bring a 3 door hatchback to America!
But they say this every year. Its more likely the US get a Type R instead.

mr_y82

We would have a hatch Si had it been offered... have a 2012 sedan instead... I think all in all the preference of 8th vs 9th gen is pretty subjective (like most things).

lucsho

I'm with you, bud, 100%, but the Euro Civic cannot come here as a replacement for our Civic, unfortunately. It is not just a different style of car; it is in a different league. Being a better car overall, better also means more expensive. We're talking around $40T, which puts it in the Volvo/Acura/Infinity/Lexus/Audi/BMW/Mini etc. league.

Lovely car, unique, fun, dream dashboard, practical, but OUT of the comparison because of our price range expectation (that we are willing to pay) for that type of vehicle, which is $15T - $25T. Nobody here (in NA) will pay $30-$40T for a Honda Civic. That's not the NA way... Sorry, and that's just too bad. We only get what we pay for...