chaserz

Since the first day I had my EM2 I used Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic Oil. Though I know I can't go back to regular oil, I'm just wondering if it was worth it. I have an '04 D17a1 with no aftermarket mods. I've never really driven the car with any other oil I really wouldn't know the difference. Just wondering if anyone else here uses that kind of oil or something else. 4200 miles in a month :X

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

For high compression or heavy use, synthetic is more beneficial. For daily driving on a stock engine that isn't performance-based, there's really no need for it.

Eyger

I don't think it's necessary either, but for whatever reason, I believe that when I went to synthetic, that everything felt better. could be my imagination though.

jdmfreak1992

Why can't you go back to regular oil?

chaserz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jdmfreak1992 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why can't you go back to regular oil?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm not sure on the details, but once you use Fully Synthetic oil in your car it becomes used to the additives or something like that and going back to a lower grade petroleum based oil would cause engine damage. This is all just based of me reading about it and not personal experience. So, don't take my word for it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For high compression or heavy use, synthetic is more beneficial. For daily driving on a stock engine that isn't performance-based, there's really no need for it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm pretty sure it's not necessary but lets just say I drive like an @sshole and constantly do so. Some people say they only had to change their synthetic oil at 5k miles and it was still a decent color. I changed mine yesterday at 4000, or something of the sort, and it was pretty bad. I'm just saying, I'm sure by using fully synthetic along with basic maintenance my car would last longer than if I used regular oil...I think. =]

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chaserz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm not sure on the details, but once you use Fully Synthetic oil in your car it becomes used to the additives or something like that and going back to a lower grade petroleum based oil would cause engine damage. This is all just based of me reading about it and not personal experience. So, don't take my word for it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It has everything to do with the seals in the engine. When using synthetic, the seals expand/contract in a certain manner, and when changing the oil composition to standard oil the pattern changes, causing cracks and eventually blown seals and excessive oil burn/wear.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chaserz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm pretty sure it's not necessary but lets just say I drive like an @sshole and constantly do so. Some people say they only had to change their synthetic oil at 5k miles and it was still a decent color. I changed mine yesterday at 4000, or something of the sort, and it was pretty bad. I'm just saying, I'm sure by using fully synthetic along with basic maintenance my car would last longer than if I used regular oil...I think. =]</TD></TR></TABLE>

Regular oil and synthetic oil last the same amount of time. Just because it's synthetic, doesn't give it an "extended" life span.

TOO MUCH TORQUE

yes you can go back to conventional oil, who ever said you cant is wrong
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx

katzenjammer84

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TOO MUCH TORQUE &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes you can go back to conventional oil, who ever said you cant is wrong
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx</TD></TR></TABLE>

Correct, that is a myth. It is however recommended to use conventional oil during engine break in.<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by toyomatt84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Regular oil and synthetic oil last the same amount of time. Just because it's synthetic, doesn't give it an "extended" life span.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's still a good idea to change your oil during normal service intervals, however synthetic IS less prone to viscosity and detergent breakdown.

k24em2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by katzenjammer84 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Correct, that is a myth. It is however recommended to use conventional oil during engine break in.

It's still a good idea to change your oil during normal service intervals, however synthetic IS less prone to viscosity and detergent breakdown.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Corvettes come with synthetic at 0 miles from the factory? (and Vipers, BMWs, Porsche...)

-.1234P312.-^EK_SI^

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chaserz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'm not sure on the details, but once you use Fully Synthetic oil in your car it becomes used to the additives or something like that and going back to a lower grade petroleum based oil would cause engine damage. This is all just based of me reading about it and not personal experience. So, don't take my word for it.

I'm pretty sure it's not necessary but lets just say I drive like an @sshole and constantly do so. Some people say they only had to change their synthetic oil at 5k miles and it was still a decent color. I changed mine yesterday at 4000, or something of the sort, and it was pretty bad. I'm just saying, I'm sure by using fully synthetic along with basic maintenance my car would last longer than if I used regular oil...I think. =]</TD></TR></TABLE>

ok guys i work at valvoline heres the details synthetic oil has a thicker layer of film between motor parts and there for protects better, the additives are there for other reasons like cleaners, antioxydents for oil foaming prevention, disspertants to kick the dirt off the parts faster! but ALL OILS HAVE THESE ADDITIVES just to a certain degree, conventinal oil WILL NOT CAUSE ENGINE DAMAGE!!!! it is made to protect, just at differant levels of protection!!!

synthetic oil: 600 degree thermal breakdown, best protection,horsepower,torque, and fuel economy. (if you beat the **** out of your sedan prolly a good choice)
semi-syn oil: 450 " " " mid-range protection these oils like MAXLIFE 75k and up and DURABLEND are for the ppl who need a lil better protection cuz you drive alot of miles a day or very long trips, periods of towing or heavy hauling, still good for fuel economy and power. (MAXLIFE is made with more cleaners (3x as much) to help restore lost power and economy, it has seal conditionors to help the seals in the motor from leaking and burning)
conventinal oil: 350 " " " meets your manufactors standards for what can go in your vehicle (the **** oil!!! worst level of protection, breaksdown very quickly, and leaves oil tarnish in the motor)

PLAN AND SIMPLE ITS WORTH IT!!!

k24em2

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by -.1234P312.-^EK_SI^ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

ok guys i work at valvoline heres the details synthetic oil has a thicker layer of film between motor parts and there for protects better, the additives are there for other reasons like cleaners, antioxydents for oil foaming prevention, disspertants to kick the dirt off the parts faster! but ALL OILS HAVE THESE ADDITIVES just to a certain degree, conventinal oil WILL NOT CAUSE ENGINE DAMAGE!!!! it is made to protect, just at differant levels of protection!!!

synthetic oil: 600 degree thermal breakdown, best protection,horsepower,torque, and fuel economy. (if you beat the **** out of your sedan prolly a good choice)
semi-syn oil: 450 " " " mid-range protection these oils like MAXLIFE 75k and up and DURABLEND are for the ppl who need a lil better protection cuz you drive alot of miles a day or very long trips, periods of towing or heavy hauling, still good for fuel economy and power. (MAXLIFE is made with more cleaners (3x as much) to help restore lost power and economy, it has seal conditionors to help the seals in the motor from leaking and burning)
conventinal oil: 350 " " " meets your manufactors standards for what can go in your vehicle (the **** oil!!! worst level of protection, breaksdown very quickly, and leaves oil tarnish in the motor)

PLAN AND SIMPLE ITS WORTH IT!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

You work at Valvoline....The oil change place or the actual lubricant company?

kenbo21

stop being cheap and say with the synthetic oil...its not that much more and is 100% worth it....

Harlowe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kenbo21 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stop being cheap and say with the synthetic oil...its not that much more and is 100% worth it....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Definitely not worth it. I used it, but I'm using mobil 1 clean 5000 now, makes no difference..
It's like buying expensive water, when you think it tastes better. Even though it's just water!

GyrlSpeedRT

If anything, drop down to semi-synthetic. But the synthetic does coat everything very nicely and keeps it running smoothly. There's really no other reason to go back to regular other than the cost...

ROONEYZ_10

so wat is ur best advise? using semi or fully?

Jellotree

Since I switched to syntetic, I noticed that the when I change my oil, the old stuff I'm draining out is cleaner than when I was putting regular oil in it.

-.1234P312.-^EK_SI^

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by k24em2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You work at Valvoline....The oil change place or the actual lubricant company?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i work at the oil change place but what does that matter? i know oil! ITS MY JOB!

so once again YES ITS WORTH IT!

Techemist

I may be able to help. I am a chemist with experience in polymers and materials science, but I don't work for any oil company. My brother is a mechanic so naturally this was an area of interest.

Fully synthetic oils have drastically surpassed any natural oil of which I'm aware. Crude oil is a dirty mixture of many things. Purification of that mixture leaves behind a product that works pretty well for a variety of applications. Synthetic oils have the advantage that they are already "clean" as long as clean materials are used in their composition. Years of research and testing has allowed scientists to optimize every property of a given oil product to best suit its intended use. The parameters used to assess oil have been far exceeded by synthetic blends.

I use AMSOIL Signature Series 0W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil in my 04 Civic EX. I am not advertising, I probably got hooked on it because they are based in WI. However, since the 1970's AMSOIL was kind of a pioneer in this field and they continue to keep on top of it despite the many other companies that are producing synthetic oil today.

The oil you put in your car has greater impact than most people realize. Often, the indirect effects are subtle and often get attributed to the "age" of the car or some other indiscrete cause. Synthetic oils, such as, AMSOIL allow your vehicle to optimize its efficiency and minimizes energy lost due to the increased coefficient of friction. This increased friction or drag is commonly observed in systems containing natural oil resulting from its higher viscosity. Furthermore, this causes additional stress and load on engine parts. Even if you aren't the type who likes to push the limits of their ride, this still plays a critical role in the health of the machinery and overall life expectancy vehicle.

I change my oil every year or 35,000 miles and I still can't really tell that it needed it. The oil filter technology has improved drastically, but I still change mine if I hit 25,000 miles before a year has passed.
Severe driving conditions require more frequent oil changes. I'd guess not more than 20,000 miles between changes. ["Severe" would include turbo or supercharged vehicles, commercial vehicles, high-mileage vehicles, short-distance vehicles, and load bearing vehicles (ie plowing, towing, etc...)].

Considering how similar synthetic and natural oil are to each other, changing between them won't cause significant damage to your engine or put major stress on your vehicle; however, mixing synthetic and natural oil, significantly lowers the effectiveness of the synthetic.

Even the film left after draining the oil along with deposits that have accumulated by not allowing the engine time to warm up, fuel impurities, airborne particles (dust), condensation of water, and degraded oil that has undergone oxidation to form undesirable by-products all contribute to the formation of a thick, more lipophobic/hydrophillic (more watery/less greasy) goo. This coating does not go away with frequent oil changes and puts even extra resistance on engine parts and prevents your oil from reaching the metal surface at the interface where it is needed.

When I switch over any vehicle to synthetic, I use AMSOIL's engine flush, which contains a mixture of solvents that create a solution that is miscible in oil yet capable of solubilizing the goo leaving a clean surface that allows the oil to do its job.

I don't claim to be an expert, but if anyone has any further questions, I'll do my best to answer them for you.

~Matt

Ben850

so you change your oil every 25 thousand miles? what's the total mileage of your motor?

skipbarber

iTrader: (1)

what a well placed advertisement..

k24em2

The amsoil dude does have a point though...In my town there is an amsoil dealer that has a late 90s dodge ram that he bought new and has yet to actually change the oil on. He changes the filter and tops it off once a year.

Ben850

How often is it driven

k24em2

IIRC he has about 350k on it

Techemist

Sorry for the seemingly biased post. I just described what I have used previously and naturally I could only explain the results that I've experienced with these products. However, I don't want the overall message to get lost because people are focusing on the specific examples. AMSOIL is simply one example that exhibits these properties. One other product line at the fore-front of synthetic lubricant technology is Mobil 1. Below is an article describing some of the history behind synthetic oil research at Mobil.

Company tests synthetic oil by driving car a million miles

This column was published on May 23 in the Herald-Journal.
Author: Kenn Peters

Imagine driving your car or truck for 1 million miles. Why, it would take forever. And then you'd have to be driving around the clock.
Mobil, the oil and gas company, did it when it was developing Mobil 1. It took four years to cover the miles.
Bill Maxwell, an environmental engineer and head of product development for the Mobil Technology Co., in Paulsboro, N.J., said the company did high-mileage tests of Mobil 1 synthetic oil during 1989 and 1990 in two Oldsmobiles with General Motors' since discontinued Quad 4 engine.
The cars were put on a treadmill and run for 200,000 miles. The oil in one car was changed every 7,500 miles and in the second car every 15,000 miles, Maxwell said. At the end of the 200,000 miles, the car's engines were torn down and found to be in perfect condition.
"It was astounding. The engines looked like they were virtually new," he said. Mobil learned from that test that even people who break the rules by not changing their oil on schedule will be forgiven by the oil.
But Mobil wasn't satisfied. So the company bought a BMW 325i with a 2.5-liter in-line 6-cylinder engine. The company decided to go for broke and run the BMW 1 million miles.
The BMW spent four years on the treadmill, 24 hours a day, mostly at 85 miles an hour, but with varied speeds, too, down as low as 45 miles an hour to simulate everyday driving.
Mobil followed BMW's recommended service schedule. Along the way it changed the fan belt and hoses and did other hardware maintenance. It religiously changed the oil.
AT THE END of the road, when the engine was taken apart, Mobil's engineers discovered that the wear measurements were the same as the manufacturer's specifications.
Today that synthetic oil is commonplace not only for vehicles on the road, but those on the racetrack, too.
The 5W30-weight Mobil 1 is used almost exclusively by racing teams on the NASCAR circuit, and most Indy-type cars use 15W50-weight Mobil 1, Maxwell said. Military fighter planes have been using synthetic oil for a long time, he said.
One of the basic elements of synthetic oil is a so-called synthetic fluid, the development of which evolved over the years until it became obvious it could provide lubricating benefits not obtainable with mineral oils, Maxwell said.
ONE OF THE oil's toughest tests was in heavy equipment that does duty on the Alaskan pipeline. The oil must perform in temperatures that dip to 40 below zero, Maxwell said.
Oil companies are constantly being pushed to develop new products to meet the demands of engines that run hotter, Maxwell said.
"We want higher fuel efficiency and that means cars will be much more streamlined, hood areas will get smaller, and engines will have to be smaller," he said. "That will result in less air flow."
What all this adds up to is hotter running engines and more demands than ever on engine oil.
Incidentally, have you ever noticed how often manufacturers claim products have been used for years in Europe before they come to the United States? Well, that's the case with Mobil synthetic oil. Maxwell said it has been used in Europe for over two decades.

oddmut

this thread was quiet informative on synthetic oil.

makes me think about how i've been using regular oil for 89k miles.