markw

2002 EX D17A2 with 177k miles

Symptoms: Engine quiet when cold, and at idle. Once warmed up there was a rattle like possibly valve train. Checked/adjusted valves, not the valves. Noise would occur around 3k, I could hear it and other people could hear it if I pointed it out to them. Just recently got a Fit, so I wanted to sell this car, but couldn't sleep at night with the possibility of it breaking a few months after someone bought it. I don't like handing off problems.

To humor myself I picked up a set of king std rod bearings and an oil pump. Dropped the pan today and here's what I found.



The worse was #1 and that's the end of the motor the noise was coming from. The broken one is the rod side from #4. #2 and #3 were out of spec also. Crank was fine, no scoring and it mic'd ok. I got the bottom end buttoned up tonight, need to put the timing belt on tomorrow and we'll see how she sounds. Measuring the bearing thickness, #1 was missing about .25mm of material, which put it around 10 thou clearance vs .0009-.0017. I caught this in time. I've heard other D17's sounding like this though, just figured I'd pass it on.


Mark

AccordEX1991

feeling lucky?

thanks for posting. mine has 195k miles but no rattle yet.
worth dropping the engine/transmission for check up and input shaft bearing change.

markw

I did the input shaft bearing at about 160K along with a new Luk clutch. Yeah, the rattle was driving me nuts. It would come and go when you played with the throttle. Main bearings looked fine. You can drop the pan and girdle, oil pump and trans will keep the crank in place.

It Wasn't Me

Hmm.. I might have to check this out myself. I have a strange "rattle-like" noise at around 2k RPM when I release the accelerator.

I'm also due for an input shaft bearing, as well. I've been putting it off for too long.

markw

I had to play with the throttle to get the noise, light throttle around 3k and you'd hear it. #1 bearing was trashed. #4 was broken. It's easy to check, unhook both o2 sensors (mine is an EX), drop the exhaust unhook donut. Drain/remove pan. I used a dead blow to work the girdle off once I pulled the bolts. It will take some effort. Start with the crank at TDC and pull the plugs. Once the girdle is off, you can rotate it part way, watch the thrust washers. This will allow you to get to all the bearings. Watch the caps, they're stamped across the joint, make sure you put them back on in the same orientation. 24ft lbs on the caps. 18, then 38 on the mains. The center two main bolts are longer than the rest. Work the mains from the center out. This is all in the Helm. With the cap off a rod, you can push the piston up and over the crank, make sure you don't hit the crank journal with the rod bolts. Do one at a time. To put the bearings in, you put the non-tang side even with the edge then push the tang side in. Wipe some new oil on the bearing, and on the journal, re-assemble, do them 1 at a time, so you don't mix up the caps.

AccordEX1991

where did you get the std. rod bearings from?

solex

iTrader: (1)

does anyone know the cause for this failure?

markw

I would guess starving for oil. I haven't done a side by side on the cranks, but apparently (according to a friend who's had them open), they only put one main to rod oil passage vs 2 on the older motors.

Ordered the bearing set from here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261080586310...84.m1497.l2649

I figured if it was going to be bad I'd get mains too. Rods alone would've been about the same price. I picked up king standard sized. I'll have it running tonight. Let you guys know how it sounds.

Ha, went from no rattle to it rattles at 3k in the other thread? Did you start listening to it? Mine wasn't that loud, and I had to point it out to people.

solex

iTrader: (1)

Starving from oil due to the nut behind the wheel being loose or is there a technical reason that could be avoided?

markw

Well, in this case it's my wifes car. "Did you check the oil?" "what's that?" She's gotten a vtec code before and it limped home, when I checked the oil it was barely touching the dipstick. There's an oil pressure sensor on the vtec housing, when vtec kicks in, if it doesn't see pressure it throws a code and won't let the engine rev above about 3 or 4k.

I've done a valve job on this since and it doesn't burn oil, however I think that was the beginning of the end for the bottom end. It was barely noticeable at first but slowly got louder. Figured I'd check it before it became an issue. I'm getting ready to sell the car, replaced it with a 2011 fit sport 5 speed. I didn't feel good about selling it with the potential that it could go boom. Plus if any potential buyer heard it, it'd devalue the car from about 4k down to 1k as they'd deduct 3k for a motor too.

Mark

AccordEX1991

Thanks.

I just placed an order for the bearing set.

I will try to get started this weekend.

Did you finish the replacement?

markw

Mine sounds like new now. The rattles are all gone. After looking at the stock pump, I'm thinking it was a waste of time to replace it. Use hondabond, or ultra grey RTV for the pan gasket if it's an EX with the aluminum pan, otherwise get a new pan gasket for the steel pan. This is the third D series I've known with this problem. When you clean the old gasket off, use a straight razor blade, brake cleaner and I used a red/maroon 3m scuff pad soaked in brake cleaner to clean the pan.

When you do the caps, watch the joint, it's engraved, make sure they go back on the same way.

AccordEX1991

Did you replace both the crank and rod bearings and thrust washer?

Do you have the torque specs for the main and rod bearing caps?

I am ready to pull the transmission and engine together from the top this coming weekend. I have all the wires on the side, clutch slave, power steering on the side, alternator out, a/c compressor moved to the side, coolant drained, coolant hoses off, battery and tray removed, axles removed, transmission and engine oil drained, shifter cables removed, exhaust removed, front and rear engine mounts removed. Only the passenger and driver side mounts remaining.

markw

Oh wow. No, I just unhooked the downpipe from the header and the first rubber grommet, I then dropped the pan after draining it. I did not replace the main bearings as they looked ok, with a little bit of scuffing. The torque specs should be online, post 5 has the specs. You work from the center out on the main girdle. If you're going to pull the whole thing, might as well rebuild it. I did mine in the car, took about 2 hours.

AccordEX1991

I am going to replace the main shaft bearing inside the transmission so I might as well pull out both the engine and tranny and replace the main and rod bearings and do timing bets too.

AccordEX1991

Got the engine and tranny out yesterday.
Replaced the rod bearings,no broken bearings, just showing some wear. Rod journals were fine.
Split the tranny and replaced the input shaft bearing and seals.
I will replace the pilot bearing and just put the 10k mile clutch parts back in and be up and running hopefully this afternoon.

Makes me wonder though what was rattling on the engine at 2500rpm.
Rod bearings were fine. I will test the vtec solenoid and make sure it is opening,