michaelcal121

So what makes the em2 chassis crap? I have heard everyone say it's crap but never have heard an explanation what makes it crap? Is it beacuase it has limited engine swaps? I know the d17 isn't the best engine but why does everyone avoid this gen? Anyone that has an opinion or knows why! Please fill me in Haha I don't need stupid responses saying search it because I have and all it is is people hating without reason ..

xTyFighterx

personally i just dont like the way they look thats why i stay away from them idk about everyone else tho

martpav

usually its because no direct swaps exist, unlike the EK which you play with like lego, also factory suspension is crap so right off the bat you have 2 very negative points, personally I like my ES1 but its not a mod friendly vehicle

It Wasn't Me

When people talk crap about the 7th generation Civic, ask them to explain why they feel that way. Chances are it's some generic drivel of an excuse for which they have no personal experience. They're typically just along for a ride on the bandwagon, or repeating what others have said before them.


Many people dislike the changes seen with the 2001+ Civic. Suspension being one of the biggest peeves. However, this too is solved with some coinage. An investment into some quality components and these cars actually handle quite well. I seent it.


Aftermarket support is very limited for cosmetic type crap, but as far as suspension and engine/transmission upgrades, well, that's where the EP3 and DC5 come into play. Lots of compatibility among these chassis and the 7GC.


Engine swaps? Yeah, depending on where you live you're stuck with a K-series swap, although I have seen B, and H-series swaps as well. I haven't seen a J-swap yet.... yet. It will happen. A RWD conversion would be neat too. Haven't seen one of those yet, either. Anyway, back on topic here...

Many people simply don't like the way the 7GC looks. However, the same can be said about the cars they drive! Everyone doesn't have the same taste. These cars are not factory performance vehicles... they're commuter cars which can be tinkered with, by guys and gals who like tinkering. So, if you like how it looks, then just know that there is plenty you can do to improve your driving experience.

Why is the D17 so hated? Who knows. No one has come up with a really good reason yet. Shortfalls are not exclusive to the D17. I've seen them put down very respectable, and surprising numbers. Of course this takes some coinage, but so does building any D-series motor. People often act like their earlier Hondas were factory 300hp track monsters, and it all changed with the birth of the 2001 Civic. Please. Get over it. You bought the same thing we did... a gas sipping, gutless commuter car which, with enough time and money invested, can be a hell of a lot of fun.

No love for the EM2 because it was never sold in Japan, I guess. But! Hey! They did make a 4WD sedan! Something I have noticed among "the scene" is that it's pretty standard to "hate" something. Usually whatever your peers are "hating."


Sorry if I've blabbed on.. I was essentially thinking through my fingers on this one.





Cliffs:
Q: Why is the 7th generation Civic chassis "crap?"

A: It isn't.

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't say you blabbed on... so much as you explained thoroughly 90% of the complaints people have with the chassis. Personally, I find the chassis undeniably attractive, roomy enough for a more sizable human (like me), and quite capable as a performance vehicle if you make an effort in research and testing.

DJ4Jesus77

I agree with Matt. I love the lines of the 7gens. But it comes down to personal preference. I have been told by classmates that they prefer this generation to the previous civic due to body styling dispite performance. But if I've learned anything over the years with "tinkering" with cars its that you're always going to have people that won't like your car, but hey its not theirs anyways.

m_shake

Suspension design does suck, but a plus is a k20a2 is a pretty straight forward swap and easy to BAR if you live in California. I always had a soft spot for a 04-05 sedan...maybe some day it'll happen

michaelcal121

Thanks so much this really helps! And no you didn't ramble on you answered all my questions except one .. basically the story is I have an em2 sedan lx automatic.. and my parents, blew the engine and I rippedit out and I'm looking for an engine that would fit or would be a good challenge For a 16yr olf high-schooler who loves jdm cars, to do. I want to do a auto to manual Conversion and would like to get some more power. I have access to many engines I have b20 engines everywhere we have a j32a2 my auto teacher could sell me for about $200 and thats the whole front end of the car... literally haha and h series of course.. and I have looked at k24s but not in-depth ... what do you guys think? Oh as for suspension I plan on doiing coilovers all around and then front and rear tie bars. What do you guys think?? I could use the opinions haha

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

Engine swaps have been covered in the FAQ's. You're looking at K-series, unless you want to spend a lot of money in custom components trying to make something else fit.

Also, there's a thread completely dedicated to suspension components. I'd suggest taking a gander through there, as your questions are pretty much covered.

bryan.0831

I love my 05 EM2. Enough said. Haha.
I also have a 2000 Civic, which I also like.

It's really up to the person's preference at the end.

MeowMicks

I think I should chime in on this.

My sister got her first car from my parents in 2009, it was an 01 ES2. She drove it until October 2011 when she bought her own car, a 2012 Sentra. About 3 months earlier I heard talk of her buying her own car so I asked my parents about my first car, they said I could drive the Civic until I was a senior in highschool or drive nothing. I hated the Civic, It wasn't cool, it wasn't fast and my sister put halo lights, ugly konig incidents and stick on vents on it. I bitched and complained to my parents for those 3 months but ultimately decided to stop being spoiled and take the car. I decided to take the car but I immediately hated it. It was slow, it was ugly to me, it just seemed like some old lady car. I didn't get to actually "have" it until december though because I didn't have a job and wasn't on insurance. On 12-17-12, My mom put me on the family insurance but I had to pay for it. I needed a job. Later that month, I got hired at HEB and thought I was the ****. Now, in those days leading up to december, I became a huge car fanatic. I wanted an EK civic because I wanted to go fast(Yes, I had a ricer mentality), This made me hate the car even more.

Then, I stumbled upon 7thgenhonda.com. I saw that despite what the internet said, the car could look good, and it did have some performance ability. Now, I thought I was the **** again, I was always talking about my car, I damn near loved it.

I started to actually mod the car around January. I replaced the halos with BOH's, got a full visor set, got an ebay lip, got ebay fog lights and thought it looked sick, due to me working 1 day a week, I never could save up enough to buy any major modifications.

This was also around the time that I was into hellaflush and I found out one of my friends had a 99 Civic and was into it to. We would always talk about front end conversions, super wide wheels, and bike racks and towhooks and other **** like that haha. Neither of us had a good source of money for these mods so we never got to do these things.

Around August 2012 I got a different job that gave a lot more hours. Around this time, I matured to where I didn't like any of that stuff anymore. I bought my racelands in December2012 and installed them in January 2013. Due to me messing up various things, The car was down for a week. When I drove it for the first time lowered I had the greatest sense of accomplishment.

Throughout the years, my parents kept offering me to get a newer car, not brand new but 07-08ish. I told them no, I liked the 7thgen. They also told me to stop modding it because I was killing the resale value, but how much could an 01 with 170000 miles be worth to a dealership in the first place?

Fast forward to today, I've done a lot more, plasti-dipped the wheels, started a bumper project, got in my first accident, learned oil changes/ how to work on it, installed Raceland coilovers(don't ever do it), carbon fiber vinyl wrapped it/took that off and more.

The EM2 chassis does not suck as I have found out. It is a challenge. By modding a 7thgen you know that you are starting out as an underdog, with a lower staring point from everyone else, The engine responds to bolt-ons worse than the other D-series, it looks like a grandma car stock (sedan) and there isnt as much aftermarket support as the other Civic. There are less swaps availible. Everything is more expensive than the older civics.

BUT, when a 7thgen is done right, in my opinion, it is way better than any other Civic to me. My favorite Civics are all 7thgens. JDMLee's, toyomatt's, okarl's, OBK's, just to name a few. I love my 7thgen because it is different from all the other Civics and it's a challenge. It's styling is a lot more modern than the previous ones but no so modern to where it looks like some sort of spaceship. (9thgens)

It isn't like 2001 though where no one knew about these Civics. There is a 7thgen community that can help you with engine swaps,suspension, etc. So 7thgens are not nearly as bad as people try to make them out to be. They just need the right research/tuning.

In conclusion: The 7thgen chassis is not crap.

Wow, was a lot longer than I intended it to be.

michaelcal121

Thanks for all the opinions and help I think I know where I'm going from here! Ha I'm sure ill be posting. Asking how to do this or that! Thanks!

bbarbulo

what's wrong with it is that it followed the legendary 88-00 civics. it's hard to top perfection that the previous cars achieved. i've owned 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 7th gen civics. I currently own 2 zenki 6th gens and a 7th gen.

they got a bad reputation from the start due to the front strut issues that they had, followed by frequent auto tranny failures. in terms of reliability I think that's all. it terms of enthusiasts, there is little aftermarket support (since there was little racing interest due to the existance of the RSX, and also the lack of a JDM counterpart) and thus parts are more costly. they are heavier and initially the K-swaps were prohibitively expensive . i prefer the 7th gen sedans over the coupes, but I own an EM2. I find the tail lights tragically resemble those of a ford focus. Also, for the record, having an EGR sucks my butt. The previous gens didn't have that handicap.

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

Yeah... that's not strictly accurate.

The suspension components used on the RSX can be used on the 7th Gen. Civics (same could be said for EP3 suspension components). So, anyone wanting to race their 7th Gen. can easily pick up components from other chassis in the same era and make them work.

I don't know where you got your weight statistics, but that's also incorrect. EM2's are lighter then both DC5's and EP3's (their biggest competition, as far as chassis size is concerned). Even with a K-series swapped in... they're still lighter.

bbarbulo

sorry if i was unclear. it's not heavier than an RSX, it's just heavy compared to a 6th gen for example (my EM2 is 231 lbs heavier than my EJ6).

as for making parts work... gotta wonder what the point is when you could just start with the RSX or EP3. dollar for dollar, buying a type S would be better value than buying a civic and a K-swap, 5 lug conversion, and a leather interior.

anywho, that's how i felt about the 7th gen. i own one because i think they are nice to drive and you don't see many of them modified around where i live.

EM2abe

FTWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!! lol.
k. i owned an 03 em2. i crashed the hell out of it. insurance gave me enough money to buy an EK, EG, EP, DC, throw a good down payment on a FG, blah blah blah... i bought another EM2. i like the looks along with how light they are. there are a few things that i would change if i could, but some people might think them to be silly or redundant. haha. but yea. people have told me "your gen civic is the bastard child of all other gens." but really, every civic gen has its own characteristics dude... like its been stated before. its an economical putter car meant to take you to work and back and anywhere in-between. cheers!

Em1_kid209

they look okay. if you modify them the correct way

newyawkballa

I'm a huge fan of the EM2. I'm currently building my Taffeta White Coupe exterior wise. Full OEM lip kit!!

I also own a S2000 with OEM hardtop and a Taffeta White 2008 Si 4 door with the full HFP lip kit. I have also previously owned a DC2, BB6 Prelude, Eg Coupe, EK coupe and a white '90 CRX Si.

Long story short, I am willing to sell my S2000 and Si and put most of the money in the bank and the rest towards a K24a2 swap and show the internet what a EM2 can do.

I love the way they look and like how it doesn't get too much attention. The anti-theft immoblizer, the flat rear floor, updated interior, decent weight (2400-2450ish for DX, LX coupe), short nose, 04-05 tails, etc.

My girl sold her black 5 speed Em2 and I knew I had to get one. We drove it from NY to Fla roundtrip every summer for 5 years straight and put 140k miles on it, and other then basic Honda recommended maintenance, no problems. I'll post pics once I install my G.C. coilovers!!

sdaidoji

personally, I agree with bbarbulo. they simply followed a different breed of civic prior.
the loss of doublewishbone, the larger size and heavier.

that's prolly why many does not like the 7th gen.
I will not let mine go, but out of the box the 6th and earlier are more fun, though hard to find unmolested cars by now...

aw614

From the official weights, the 7th gen seems a lot lighter than a DC. I have to say though even an automatic integra felt faster than my 5 speed 2002 LX sedan my brother know drives. Though I've always wonder if the EX felt any quicker...

But the 7th gen civic is a fantastic commuter car and got great gas mileage, just wish stock wise it handled a tad better and felt more stable during windy days, but overall a good ownership experience with ours since new.

Traum

I never understood the hate for the 7th gen. The chassis is not spectacular, but it certainly doesn't suck. The car is not as agile as the previous generation, and it has a bigger turning radius than the EG/EK as well. But with the slightest bit of suspension tuning, the car's handling can still be very, very neutral.

People hate the D17. But again, I'd argue that stock for stock against the D16, the D17 is a superior engine. Around town, especially, the extra 100cc displacement really makes itself apparent, and the extra torque is very much appreciated.

Given their age, the 01-03 cars (ES1 / EM2) are not good cars. Tons of stuff all break too easily, and it is evident that Honda got complicit when they first released the car. The 04-05 cars tend to be very good if they have been properly mainained.

bbarbulo

^^ you guys have it right. I was blown away by the mileage I got out of my 1st full tank of gas. 610 city kms... are you effin kidding??? loved that!!!! i know it's a bigger tank compared to the 6th gen, but what the hell, it's a victory nevertheless.

secondly, the torque does make the car feel more mature. i used to drive an old prelude 2.0 in the winter, and every time i'd go drive my 6th gen, the first week i'd keep checking to see if my brakes were seized up or something... nope just lack of torque LOL

and yes, my EM2 has the dreaded EVAP P1457 code, and now more recently has started to stall at will. when warm it may stall, or it may idle perfectly. you never know... it's pure mental anguish watching that tach come down toward idle not knowing if it'll stall or not. and it has elevated idle while coasting. many people have identified these as 'problems' but i have yet to see how-tos or solutions posted. whereas for an EK, there would have been 18 million threads and youtube videos on how to troubleshoot and resolve these issues. On the flip side, my DRL module has been repaired thanks to a how-to from the accord peeps.