jmickelct

Hi,
Newbii here.... happy for the depth of the collective wisdom!
2002 Civic EX, 1.7, purchased 5 year ago with 130k, now 198k.

Just got towed home, suspecting timing belt, would appreciate any tips, so I can speak with my shop Mon. a.m. with some sense of options.

Was driving 55-60mph on an interstate, battery light came on (belt had been squealing on\off for a week...I replaced alternator a year ago and had'nt had the time to adjust the belt). I was assuming the alternator belt broke.... Turned onto a parkway, just about up to 35-40mph, and the engine light came up too, small thud, engine conked out, was able to coast off pkwy. Tried engine; dead, no response, no click, lights still on. Called tow truck\AAA, waiting for them I realized that I was nearly tight up against a road sign, so I got out and pushed the vehicle backwards, so the tow truck could get in front of me.

Waiting (30 mins) just for the hell of it, tried the engine and it fired and ran... but very rough. Shut it right down thinking, jumped timing belt tooth (versus broken)? Engine seemed to pulse (every few seconds).

So had it towed, tow driver thought same thing (timing belt, possibly skipped a tooth). Dropped it at one of the shops that seems to gouge me the least. Will have to wait until Mon a.m. to speak with them.

So the car currently runs (rough) and both the engine and battery lights are on.

Thoughts?

-j

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't be surprised if there was damage to the valves or the pistons, because the D17 is an interference motor (meaning that, when the timing belt snapped... the pistons would probably contact the valves). If you were lucky enough to not have that happen, the belt may be off by a tooth or two on the crank.

jmickelct

But if the belt actually broke... (versus the tensioner, etc..) wouldnt the car refuse to start?

Basik_One

Inspect timing belt, timing, and check codes for cel

toyomatt84

iTrader: (1)

I didn't have a chance to read it all through, I just skimmed.

To be honest, it sounds as if you've got an ignition system issue.

jmickelct

OK, here's what the shop is trying to tell me: the alternator that I put in last year "mysteriously" became ungrounded and fried the ECM... calling for a new ECM before they'll even test further. I didn't get to speak with the tech and the guy on the phone seemed to be blowing smoke (something about: bearings, bushings, etc.... which sounded fishy).... So called around and the local dealers want $550-650 for an ECM and ~$250 to install and program.... (and Toyo.... sounds like you may have hit it... re: something electronic...). So any thoughts about A). this sounding even remotely plausable B). how hard it'd be to get a used ECM and C). how hard that'd be to install D). What happends if it doesnt' fix it... and is it worth fishing around for a 2nd opinion (understanding that I'll have to have the car towed there...

Speculation encouraged. And thanks for your thoughts...

-j

anibis

It's actually somewhat common for the long alternator bolt to loosen up or break and fry the ECU. The alternator doesn't use a ground wire, it uses the case, which grounds to the bracket. If the bolt loosens up or breaks it loses its ground and sends a surge of power to the ECU and fries it.

You would have to look at the alternator and the 2 bolts that hold it on the bracket to figure out exactly what happened. I would assume the alternator is loose.

Installing the ECM isn't that hard. To get one check local junkyards, car-parts.com, ebay.

Then you will have to either drive it or tow it to a dealer, install the new ECM in the parking lot (if you drove it), and have them program it.

jmickelct

Very helpful... thanks very much.... And (being a neophyte when it comes to computers and cars...) is an ECM and an ECU the same thing?... And would you hazard a guess as to how hard it is to match a used unit (say from eBay) with my exact configuration, so that, whatever I ended up with will work? I went through the process with the dealer (and my VIN), and he offered that there was really only a single 1.7 engine for 2002 on a Civic EX. If I got an ECM as like http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-2003-HO...ht_2845wt_1387, what are the key codes\parts that I'd need to match? Unfortunately, I know enough to be dangerous... and have enough tools to break as many things as I can fix... But with the dealer wanting close to $900 to do the whole thing.... any multiple of $100 I can shave off will be a very good thing.

And any idea if the alternator can be tested without yanking it out of the car?

Thanks again. -j

anibis

Yeah I mistyped...ECU....ECM....PCM....people call the computer different names. I'm not sure what the difference is to be honest.

All you need to match up is your transmission and motor. The link you posted will work assuming you have an EX w/automatic trans (and the seller has it right).

The dealer would use a new ECM which runs about $700, that's why its so expensive to have them do it.

Make sure you fix the alternator problem before you do anything. The dealer will have to program your keys so the car will start. Should run about $100.

jmickelct

Great... thanks again... very useful....

Appreciate it...

I may take a whack at a used ECM and see if the place I have it now can wrap up the alternator issue so I'll just need to have it towed down and programmed.

-j

jmickelct

OK, just heard back from dealer: alternator checks out OK (same as the first shop who did the towing... though they suggested the alternator "was installed incorrectly"... something that the dealer denies, saying it's: tight, installed and grounded correctly). I asked if they'd suggest a new\different alternator (the one in is aftermarket) and they said no; not really. It seems to be doing what it needs to.

Dealer installed and coded the used ECM and apparently everything is up and running again. Code they got was some engine\drive train.

Said that it's entirely possible that the ECM itself just bit the dust; couldn't say as to what it was that caused it to conk out.

So will head down, pick it up and say a prayer!

Now (after spending the $700 this incident ran), to decide how lucky I am on when to do the timing belt!... Found a local shop who would do it and the water pump for !$400... once the pain of this one ebbs... may bite the bullet and buy the peace of mind.

Sounds like it might be possible for the ECM itself to die; something a few folks sound like they might have had happen.

Thanks for all your help.

BTW... the used ECM (NYC junk land) was $100 but I did find out from my 2 local dealers that there are some 8 different ECMs for 2002

When looking for used\junk-yard numbers like:
2002, Honda, 1.7L, AT, EX, ID-37820PLR L54...

apparently they made versions of: L51, L52, .... L58... (mine was L55)... and both dealers said that *only* the 37820-PLR L55 would run my car (if I wanted things like my windows to open!). So, when looked for a used ECM, do yourself the favor of calling a dealer with your VIN to ensure you get the right number.