Heat

I’m kind of in the market for an ’09 Accord with manual transmission, preferably the EX though the EX-L and LX are possibilities depending on price after negotiations. Four cylinders, sedan. Our main family car is a ’99 LX with manual transmission that we bought new in late ’98. The car we would be selling would be a ’95 Toyota Camry.

So… what do you think of the 8th generation? Anything to look out for, any problems, etc? Any comparisons to the 6th generation or to the ’09 Toyota Camry SE (which currently has a $2,000 rebate)?

Any easy way to search inventory through Honda’s website, or do I have to go dealer by dealer? (finding an Accord with manual transmission isn’t that easy around here)

Do you recommend going through the internet to negotiate a deal, or showing up in person? It’s been over ten years since I’ve bought a new car.

Edmunsd.com says that the "fair market value" is close to invoice, before the current $750 manufacturer to dealer rebate. Would it be reasonable for me to expect to pay, say, $500 under invoice?

Thanks for any insight!

GoLowDrew

We have a 06 Accord EX and 04 Camry LE. 06 is a lease, so we may consider a 09 Accord. 04 Camry we own. First, back in 03, we first check out Honda. No deals. We took the advertise price in the newspaper of the Camry, and said "this is what I want." Their reply was "how many would you like?"

I always find Toyota dealers willing to "give" Camrys away. IMO it has to do with bragging rights of (keeping) Camry being the #1 car sold in the U.S. kind of thing. I believe I still see ads for $16,999 or $17,999 for a 09 Camry.

To answer your question, take the ad, and say I want the same discount (since you may be asking about a different model) if you want a Toyota. Take the ad from the "same day" so they can't say that's last week's deal.

Since Honda don't give cars away (they still want $40K a 09 Pilot Touring), I would have to count on Edmunds as a guide. That's all I can hope for when going in. And I say "Hope."

As for comparing the two 09s. I do think Camry has cheap out a bit. Not in features, but in material and feel. The only way to avoid it is to cover it with leather such as XLE or SE option. The Camry does feel a bit more basic. Camry (non SE) does feel a bit softer.

The new Accord does feel better IMO. It feels better put together overall. More solid.

Does that mean Camry is a bad car? No. Not bad for $16,999 if Honda don't want to sell me an Accord.

The last car we bought, 08 Cobalt. I went with the internet first. Got their best price. That was basically it. No negociating. Because it's a GM, we all know they need to give them away, so I know it was low or the lowest. Again, when dealing with Honda (over the internet), I kind of feel there was no special deals. Like no different if I was to talk in and play hardball.

SUPABLUEV6

I drive a 08 EX-L 6 speed coupe.
I am a car guy, own show cars, just sold my super charged Saleen...........and all I can say is ,this Accord kicks a**.
It interior feels great (other than some rattle problems that these cars are known to have) it accelerates awsome, and just all around is one of my favorite cars I've ever owned (this says alot, I've owned some pretty sweet cars!).

I looked at Camary's too.........then I remebered I wasnt a soccer mom

My 2 cents

CBL9

07acrd

when we bought the 07 I did internet quotes from dealers within 3 hours and the prices varied from town to town. I first went into the local dealer got a price this was sept of 07 he was 2500 over what I found on a net quote a couple days later. He matched the price and off we went. It pays to shop the net. 34k trouble free miles on it since then.

schock3

XXXXXX222222222!! same boat as this guy. I have owned many many cars and this is by far the best 28,000 i have ever spent. my 3 cents

K24power07

Def. buy the accord worth the $$$ and fun to drive....

Targa250R

For a new 4-cylinder Honda? No.

But it depends dealer by dealer. Some are looking to unload high volume at low prices. Others aren't. Prices and available deals can also vary a lot by region.

You're going to have a tough time finding a manual transmission to start with, because most dealers won't order cars that they don't think they can sell - so you won't always find that sort of stuff just sitting on lots.

Your best bet is to find a dealer that really seems to be hurting. No floor traffic, cars that have been sitting around forever, you get the picture. They will often cut a losing deal just to move a car.

If price is what it all comes down to for you, buy a Camry. They give those things away.

Frankly I think people focus way too much on price when they buy a new car, and end up missing a lot of other important things.

07acrd

some people have a price range and budget and are trying to get the best they can get it never hurts to try and get a better deal what can they tell you no?

Heat

Thanks for the information, the ’09 Honda Accord is definitely on the short list now.

And yes, Accords with manual transmission are hard to find and unfortunately Honda’s website doesn’t list inventory. Just as an example, if you go to mazda’s website (www.mazdausa.com), you can choose the vehicle you want then search dealer’s inventory up to 250 miles from your ZIP code. With Honda you have to go to each individual dealership’s website and search their inventory, and about 1 out of 4 or 5 don’t list their inventory on-line.

For what it’s worth, out of the St. Louis and central / southern Illinois markets I’ve found the following number of Accords with manual transmission:

LX: 5
LX-P: 1
EX: 0
EX-L: 4
EX-L, Navigation: 3

Looks like I’ll be upgrading to an EX-L if I go the Accord route. Invoice price of an EX-L is about $23,900 (including destination charge), I wouldn’t expect to pay more than that and preferably a few hundred under - remember that there is a $750 manufacturer to dealer rebate going on.

GoLowDrew

Please do post the price you pay if you do decide on an Accord. My dealer is selling EX-L auto for $28K range.

My dealer adds wheel locks, trunk mat, tint on all cars sold. But still.....

Heat

Yeah, that’s pretty crazy. MSRP of an EX-L is $27,075, invoice is $24,605 (both with destination charges included). The trunk mat (trunk tray) costs $95 at http://www.handa-accessories.com/accint08.html , the wheel locks are $35 (both being Honda OEM parts). Tinting is about a $250 value… if you want tinting.

Kind of reminds me of my local Honda dealership, they are notorious for not negotiating much on new cars. But then again, they never carry Accords with manual transmission so their pricing of new cars is a moot issue with me since I wouldn’t be buying from them.

Memnoch

iTrader: (1)

WHY NOT? So your dealer can continue to make a few extra thousand dollars for every car he sells to a ignorant buyer?

and people wonder why the car sales profession is given such a bad name...
He can post whatever he likes in regards to auto sales.

GoLowDrew

^^^ Do you need to edit your reply above?

Targa250R

I've no clue what you're going on about, but I do have a question for you:

What do you feel is an acceptable and fair profit to make on a $27,000 car?

07acrd

if your not making profit why be a dealer?

Targa250R

Exactly.

So why does everyone think that cars should sell for less than the invoice price?

What do you feel is a fair profit to make on a $27,000 car?

Heat

I would consider $250 or $300 over invoice before any incentives to be a “good” profit for the dealer. Add to that 2% of MSRP for the holdback and the dealer would be making about $750 to $800 on the car... before financing spreads, trade-ins, etc. (I wouldn't have a trade-in but I would do financing through the dealer if they meet my local credit union's rates).

Of course, that is before incentives, so basically I would want the $750 manufacturer to dealer incentive (extended through March 2, 2009), thus I would want to pay a price of about $400 to $500 under invoice but would probably settle for $300 or so under invoice.

Yeah, I know, many Honda dealers would scoff at the idea of my "getting" any of the $750 manufacturer to dealer incentive --- but I'm the one buying, or not buying, the car.

And of course, I wouldn't expect a dealer to sell every car for $250 to $300 over invoice before incentives - there are people out there who really don't negotiate on new cars and will pay close to MSRP. Plus, there is a reason why Honda dealers used to have "regional adjustment" stickers next to the Mulroney sticker, adjustments of $500 or so over MSRP.

journeyforce

Hello,
Does not hurt to try to get the best deal you can on the car. You can not go wrong with ether a Camry or an Accord. Both are reliable and are of good quality.
Is there a rental agency near you that you can rent both for a day or two and drive them around to see which you like? this is a way to drive the car a good deal so you can spot some quirks that you could not on the 5 min dealer test drive.
This should be a great time to buy a car as with the economy bad and buyers few yuo should be able to get a better deal on a car then you would have in the summer. I read somewhere that Toyota seems to have an overstock on cars due to nobody buying them due to the bad economy.
Try this link
http://www.cars.com/go/compare/model...ids=10512,9799
About the only thing you will not like regarding these 2 cars is that a lot of folk drive them so you will not have a unique car.
Good luck
L

Targa250R

So you think $250-300 on a $27,000 MSRP item (that's 0.9-1.1%) is an acceptable profit? Are you joking? What do you do for a living?

And people wonder why manufacturers can't make money selling new cars . . .

07acrd

that doesn't even begin to cover lot costs insurance power etc. But invoice can be a tricky thing too as the dealer I was at brings out invoice and says you can't do any better. I beat his "invoice" by 1500

Heat

How can you say that $250 to $300 over invoice is a joke? It's more than www.edmunds.com says I should pay. Using their numbers on an '09 EX-L with manual transmission, prices include destination charge:

MSRP: $26,275
Invoice: $23,883
"Fair Market Value": $23,966 (includes +$186 regional adjustment)

So without regional adjustment, their recommended price based on what the cars are actually selling for is less than invoice, and again that's before the $750 manufacturer to dealer incentive - I would expect to pay around $23,400 to $23,500 for the car if I were in the market today.

As far as profit goes, also don't forget the 2% of MSRP Honda hold-back that the dealer gets, or another $520 or so.

And as far as the manufacturer not making money on the car - I'm not buying direct from the manufacturer, I'm buying from the dealer. The manufacturer has already made their money from the dealer.

For what it's worth, I'll be going to the Chicago Auto Show in a week, that'll give me a chance to check out the Accord a little closer as well as the Camry and the Mazda3 Hatchback, though the issue I have with the Mazda3 is that it is the same price as an Accord LX, and I believe that the Accord LX would be a better car especially in the future (eight or ten years out).

07acrd

like I said get online quotes from dealers in your area. I did this and saved enough to pay for the 100k coverage. and the "invoice" is a bunch of bull.

gospeedgo1

look up the costco auto buy program. you get cars for invoice or just over invoice. no bargaining required. we got my GFs 08 ex-l for invoice using this program. walk in, walk out, very simple and low stress. you also deal with the internet/ fleets sales person who is usually not the usual sleaseball salesman type.

07acrd

thats how my uncle got his and has no complaints