Jmb106jr

Its a 97 Cl 2.2 Auto w/ 211k. Just started this Saturday, when driving 45-55 mph the tranny won't down shift, just revs to red line. Yesterday tested the A/B Lock-Up & Shift Control Solenoids for resistance all 4 had 18omhs and applied 12v to all 4 and they clicked. Going to take both off and clean and inspect them.I did a drain and fill 8k ago, the fluid is pink in color when wiped on a white towel and is at the correct level. Recent work done to the car has been the oil/filter changed a week ago, the AT throttle cable replaced a month ago. Any help is much appreciated.

P.S. No CEL or D4. No DTC's set or stored.

Jmb106jr

bump

Jmb106jr

This is what i did yesterday, removed & cleaned the Lock-Up & Shift Control Solenoids & the NM & NC Speed Sensors, loosened the AT throttle cable, did a drain & fill of the fluid. There was some build up on the speed sensors, the fluid looked fine and there was no metal in the bottom of the pan.The shifting has improved, but still on occasion it will NOT down shift when you punch the gas at 45-50 mph, the engine revs to red line and you go no where it's as if the tranny is not in any gear or slipping really bad.

Jmb106jr

Well went out and swapped Lock-up Control Solenoids w/ a know good one from my 92 Accord Wagon to take for a test drive, when i started car I finally got a CEL light so i took for a drive, the Lock-Up Control Solenoid made no difference. So the one thing I noticed is that w/ light throttle the tranny shifts fine, now if you punch the throttle the tranny acts up. Now i get back home and pull the code via the service connector under the Glove Box as I don't have a scan tool and I get Code 7 for TPS. I checked the TPS connector and am getting 4.99v. I reset the ECM but have not gone for a test drive yet. will keep you updated, I have the feeling a TB is in my near future.

MAD_MIKE

It simply could be the transmission is on its way out. Did you try manually downshifting to D3 or D2 for passing power?

FWIW when the transmission went out in the '95 EX it did a few flare ups when trying to pass/downshift, manually shifted into D3 engaged third gear and then upshifted back into fourth when I shifted into D4. The symptoms lasted that day and the transmission failed. Went out to lunch, transmission felt fine, couple of flare ups on the way back. Checked fluid level, seemed fine. Got 4.5 miles from home and she **** the bed.

Simply the PO never took care of the transmission with fluid changes. I at the time was unfamiliar with the Honda ATs and neglected it myself a bit. I was more annoyed at how sudden the problem occurred. But when I drained the fluid it was very dark, and the magnetic plug was covered in a metallic slurry.

Jmb106jr

Thanks MAD_Mike, I am the 2nd owner & have had it for 14 months, the 1st owner took great care of it.Complete service records. The fluid has never been dark, and i do a drain & fill every other oil change. When i did a Drain & Fill on Monday there were no shiny metal shavings in the bottom of the drain pan and the magnet on the drain plug didn't have anymore metal slurry than usual.

Jmb106jr

Tested the TPS this morning. I am getting 4.99V to the TPS and I got .38V at closed throttle (specs are.45-.50v) & 3.33V @ wide open throttle (specs are 4.5-5.0v) definitly out of spec now is this affecting my shift problem IDK for sure. But could be that when I punch the gas to pass or kick down the tranny the ECM is not seeing 4.5-5.0V and down shifting. Any thoughts????

Bwill9886

As I relayed to you in the PM, adjust the TPS until it is in proper spec and see what you get. You won't know until you try.

Like MAD_MIKE, I would have thought your transmission was just on it's way out from looking at your first few posts. I actually still wouldn't rule it out. It being well taken care of helps you, but I frankly am weary of nearly all older Honda auto's. Especially one's with high mileage.

Let us know what happens.

phootbag

When throttle pressure overcomes governor pressure the vehicle is forced to downshift. I do not suspect your problem is a faulty TPS signal. If you have adjusted your throttle ( kick-down ) cable properly and you still have the symptom I suspect the cause is an internal fault. Most likely a sticking valve.

I do not have access to Acura materials as I work at a Honda dealership so I cannot tell you what the component most likely to have failed is. Hondas engineers know exactly what symptom will occur when a particular valve or component fails. They have charts that show this. You need to talk to someone who works at Acrua who can give you this information. Or, is the transmission in your car EXACTLY the same as one of Honda's transmissions? If so, I might be able to help with that.

Jmb106jr

Thanks Phootbag for getting back w/ me. The transmission is a A6VA 97 Cl 2.2 W/ ABS = to 94-97 2.2 from a Accord Ex Coupe w/ ABS (MPOA).

phootbag

Hopefully, you'll find a solution before Monday but if you don't I'll try to do some research for you when I go back to work.

Jmb106jr

Thank You Phootbag. Plan on adjusting the TPS on Sunday, hopefully that works, went to boneyard today and picked up a TPS (just in case) And an extra set of Lock-Up & Shift Control Solenoids off a 94 Accord w/ 84K on it.

poorman212

Did you check the throttle control cable.....I'd double check that. You stated it was replaced about a month ago. I would double check it for proper adjustment.

Jmb106jr

Yeah i checked it and actually loosened it because i thought i may have had it to tight. When you press the the gas the shift cable moves at the same exact time.

Jmb106jr

In the past couple days the shifting has improved, still does it but not as bad. Sunday morning I adjusted the TPS even maxed out i could not get 5.0v at wide open throttle most I could get was 4.02v. I even tried a low mileage TPS w/ 84K on it. Neither TPS made a difference in the way it shifted. Tried a different Shift Control Solenoid which made no difference.

Jmb106jr

Bump, any other ideas?

Jmb106jr

Hi Phootbag just touching base to see if you had a chance to do any research at work?
Thanks
Joe

Jmb106jr

Drove it today on the Interstate, set the CC @ 70mph and just happened to look at the Tach the Rpm's would jump between 2500 and 2900 w/ no change in speed. It was not down shifting it's as if the torque converter was locking and unlocking. Now normally the rpm's stay at 2500 steadily when the CC is set at 70mph this was on totally flat ground. Not really thrilled about the idea of replacing the tranny as the dealers in my area want $4100-$3900 for a reman installed w/ 3yr/36k warranty, now i only paid $2500 for the car 14 months ago and it's not worth $3900 w/ a good tranny in it. It's a shame as the rest of the car is nearly perfect! I found a ECM on Ebay for $30 shipped any body think it's worth a try?

phootbag

I've seen slipping torque converter clutches that cause an RPM fluctuation like you describe. I'll try to remember to get the information we talked about. I suspect internal malfunctions requiring a rebuild or replacement.

Jmb106jr

Well things have gone south now, it is slipping in 1st gear! It is on it's way out, so we have parked it so we don't get stranded or cause an accident. I found a A0YA tranny from Jdm Engines Depot in NJ on ebay for $349 shipped to Fl w/ about 60k on it, should be here late next week. 212k on the original tranny is not to bad before it died. My Mechanic quoted me $450 to install, so for less than a grand i should be up and running again. Hopefully this tranny will last a 100k more.

MAD_MIKE

Just keep tabs on the fluid level. When I replaced the one in the EX I had to keep watch on the fluid. I had filled the case, started the car and placed it through all the gears, topped off, went through the gears, checked, drove around(going through all gears) and topped off. But still a month after the fluid level dropped another quart. No leaks or drips. The only thing I can think of is the seals may not initially seal correctly if the transmission has been stored for a while allowing for ports/chambers to drain back.

Jmb106jr

Thanks MAD_MIKE that's some sound advice I will do that. Is there away to add fluid to the torque converter so i don't have a dry start or do think it already has fluid in it?

MAD_MIKE

The only way to do that is to remove the TC from the transmission and put a quart in it through its snout. I replaced the O ring on the TC snout as an added measure.
If the Transmission is used it will more than likely retain fluid in the TC as there isn't a drain on the Honda TCs that I have played with.
The dry start is mostly a concern on brand new/rebuilt TCs. Used, its almost impossible to remove the fluid, due to the donut shape and lack of a dedicated drain hole.

If you do go this route, when reinstalling the TC make sure to rotate it as you install it to engage the various shafts and pump drive. Try to line up the slot in the snout as best you can with the pump this will allow for a faster install. Make sure the TC is parallel to the pump and rotate back and forth, you should hear/feel about three clicks/clunks as the TC engages the shaft.
You know its properly installed when the TC is in past the transmission bellhousing mating surface ans spins freely. Be careful of your fingers as when it is fully seated their will be no room for your fingers. IE you will smash them. Looking in through the starter hole the TC will be >< close to the bellhousing without making contact.

Keep in mind the TC is about 30lbs. It may spin easily in the trans, don't let that fool you. It is a heavy and awkward shape to handle.

Jmb106jr

I thought there would still be fluid in the torque converter, just wanted to avoid a dry start if at all possible. From the pictures of the tranny the drive plate, torque converter, flywheel are all ready installed,seems like a "plug and play". I won't be installing it as it is the wife's car and don't want to get blamed for any problems. My mechanic is installing, hopefully he will let me watch and learn, as he usually lets me watch what he is doing.

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Take your kick down cable off of your throttle body, then try tugging on it by hand. If you feel any sort of drag at all in the cable, replace it.

Not saying this is your problem, but I've replaced a **** load of kickdown cables on 92-95 Civics because they always stick.