Go Back   Honda-Tech > Honda and Acura Model-Specific Technical Forums > Honda Accord (1990 - 2002)
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


Welcome to Honda-Tech!
Welcome to Honda-Tech.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Honda-Tech community today!


Reply
 
 
 
submit to reddit
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-05-2008, 04:02 PM   #1
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align

I've reviewed the Chilton manual and the thread on replacing timing belts, but can't find the info I need. I'd hate to assume that all is good and finish up the job, just to tear it all apart again.

1992 Accord LX
Just replaced the timing belt, balance belt, water pump

Here's the issue:
Does the rear balance shaft (the one that get's held in place with a 6mmX100mm bolt) need to be in any specific alignment with it's own timing mark when the other pulleys (cam, crank, front balance shaft) are aligned?
The pulley for the balance shaft has a mark (dot) on it, but I can't find any info that says what it should line up with (if anything). So, just for safety's sake, I made a mark before I took any belts off and now that mark shows the pulley to be off 180deg from before, when I line up everything else to TDC.
Is there something wrong, or am I paying too much attention to a minor detail?


Modified by afreeclimber at 5:25 PM 4/5/2008
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2008, 11:07 PM   #2
Junior Member
 
casper.hughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: somerset, ky, usa
Posts: 169
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (afreeclimber)

yea there is a acess hole in the back i think 12 mm take it out and put a small screw driver in th hole and turn the balancing shaft until it locks and then allign the other pully and slip the belt on
__________________
94 accord lx 2.2 sohc 2dr 5 speed 454,671 miles never let me down yet
89 s10 252,546mil 5 speed 4 tech ohv best truck ever owned
04 malibu 3.5 v6 AT rather have my truck and car
casper.hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 08:42 AM   #3
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (casper.hughes)

Cool. That's what the directions say, but I hate to assume things due to a lack of information.
I guess that balance shaft must be able to lock in two positions, 180deg apart. I guess this makes sense, considering it's a 4cyl motor and one pair of cylinders are 180deg opposed to the other pair as they attach to the crankshaft.

I just got thrown off by the marks on that pulley, since they are not mentioned anywhere!
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 08:57 AM   #4
Honda-Tech Member
 
dleccord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 590
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default

did you take pics
__________________
2004 Honda Accord 2.4L EX
1996 Honda Accord 2.2L LX
dleccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 09:12 AM   #5
Junior Member
 
casper.hughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: somerset, ky, usa
Posts: 169
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (afreeclimber)

yea as long as you go the crank and the cam dead on it wont hur any thing but it will shake if the balsncing shafts in time
__________________
94 accord lx 2.2 sohc 2dr 5 speed 454,671 miles never let me down yet
89 s10 252,546mil 5 speed 4 tech ohv best truck ever owned
04 malibu 3.5 v6 AT rather have my truck and car
casper.hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 09:32 AM   #6
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (casper.hughes)

No pics. I'm eager to get my car back on the road, so I just about finished the job last night, before it got too dark. Don't want to miss anything because I can't see. I'll start it up today.

I've read some more info on the balance shaft alignment, and it seems to be pretty straightforward; you just lock the shaft with the 6mm bolt and don't worry about it's pulley markings.

I did forget to transfer one rubber seal from the old water pump to the new one. It's "L" shaped and about the size of a nickel and seals against the edge of the lower timing belt cover.
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 06:52 PM   #7
Member
 
hondadude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Fayettenam, Ar, US
Posts: 3,703
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (afreeclimber)

the Dot on the rear counter balance pulley should line up with a casting boss at about the 4'O' clock position.

Click the image to open in full size.
__________________
Year and model Helps get better info
My crystal ball is out of service,and
I failed Clairvoyance 101 class

hondadude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2008, 09:49 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
casper.hughes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: somerset, ky, usa
Posts: 169
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (hondadude)

ok forget that little yellow mark take the access bolt out of the back of the block and stick a screw driver in it turn the rear balancen shaft til it stops and make sure the front pully is alligned with the two timing marks a put ur other crank pully on and the belt remove the screwdriver and put the bolt in and put the rest of it back together trust me i just got done doin that to my car it is about a 2 or 3 hr job to do it all
__________________
94 accord lx 2.2 sohc 2dr 5 speed 454,671 miles never let me down yet
89 s10 252,546mil 5 speed 4 tech ohv best truck ever owned
04 malibu 3.5 v6 AT rather have my truck and car
casper.hughes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 03:58 AM   #9
H-T Order of Merit
 
TouringAccord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: somewhere in MI
Posts: 9,174
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (afreeclimber)

Quote:
Originally Posted by afreeclimber
I guess that balance shaft must be able to lock in two positions, 180deg apart. I guess this makes sense, considering it's a 4cyl motor and one pair of cylinders are 180deg opposed to the other pair as they attach to the crankshaft.
no, the balance shaft can only be aligned one way using the bolt. The hole in the shaft for the bolt to pass through is off center so it can only be aligned one way.
TouringAccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 04:02 AM   #10
H-T Order of Merit
 
TouringAccord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: somewhere in MI
Posts: 9,174
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (casper.hughes)

Why not use a second set alignment marks to double check your work? You seem so set against it for some reason though it would only take a few seconds to check.
TouringAccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 10:42 AM   #11
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (hondadude)

Hondadude:
The position shown in your photo for the balance shaft is exactly how I had the shaft aligned/marked before I took any belts off.

However, the timing belt replacement instructions tell you to move the camshaft pulley three teeth to adjust the proper tension BUT don't turn the crankshaft clockwise EVER. So, after tensioning I continued to turn the crank one revolution counterclockwise to get back to TDC. The balance shaft of course sat right where it was (no belt on it at that time).

The instructions on this site and the Chilton manual say NOTHING about lining up any marks on the balance shaft; just insert the locking bolt and you're good to go. That's what I did.

The car is all back together and I drove it yesterday. Most things seem okay. It does sound a little more noisy than before. Also, there is air being forced out between the head and valve cover. I thought it was a manifold leak, but I spayed soapy water on it and the air is coming from the valve cover gasket point. I'll post separately about this one!
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 10:50 AM   #12
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (TouringAccord)

TouringAccord:
I'm confused about this because the balance shaft pulley dot sat at about 4 o'clock with everything set at TDC, before I took any belts off.

After putting all the belts back on, the balance shaft pulley dot sits 180 off, at about 10 o'clock, when everything is at TDC. BUT, I made sure I could still insert the bolt into the access hole up to the 3" mark and I could.
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2008, 06:02 PM   #13
H-T Order of Merit
 
TouringAccord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: somewhere in MI
Posts: 9,174
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (afreeclimber)

I assume by the instructions on this site you mean my write-up. No, I didn't use the alignment marks, I only used the long bolt as thats what my Helm manual indicated to use therefor I used it and had no problems. I've actually done a few this way, never using the alignment marks. Not saying to not use them, just that I didn't.

The bolt shouldn't go through 180* off because it should look like this...


When you first took the belts off, you said the alignment marks on the outside lined up correct? Did you then have to rotate the shaft to get the bolt to go through? Or did it go through without having to rotate the shaft/gear?

You said the engine runs a little more noisy now than before. Is that sound like a vibration from the block? Thats my understanding of how it is without or with mistimed balance shafts.

Not sure why you are getting air coming out of the valve cover gasket. In what area are you seeing this? Did you put some Hondabond or other liquid gasket maker into the corners where the valve cover gasket goes over the cam?
TouringAccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2008, 10:45 AM   #14
 
afreeclimber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Posts: 60
iTrader Rating: (0)
Default Re: Timing/Balancer out of alignment? Marks Don't Align (TouringAccord)

So, yesterday I tore the whole damn thing apart again.

Lined up everything to TDC and the rear balance shaft timing dot was sitting at 10 o'clock. Removed the access hole bolt and inserted a 5.5mm allen wrench (which I taped off at 3" to ensure sufficient depth) which went in all the way.

Popped the balance belt off the tensioner, repositioned the pulley timing dot to 4 o'clock and again inserted the allen wrench, locking the shaft from turning. I played around with this a lot, for several minutes, seeing when I could get the allen wrench in all the way and when I couldn't.

In tune with the first time I set the balance belt, I could get the wrench in at 10 o'clock & 4 o'clock.
I know I was supposed to use a 6mm bolt, but when the 5.5mm allen wrench is locked in, it allows only very slight movement in the shaft (not even 1 tooth of rotation on the pulley).

So I set the timing dot at 4 o'clock and finished up the job. This time I put RTV blue around the entire valve cover gasket, because I saw slight oil leak coming from the back side, behind the cap where oil is added (first time I only put RTV on the 4 points around where the camshaft sits).

The car seemed to run the same, so far as new noises and vibration, but also seemed to get better after a half hour of drive time. Now I would say the car is running smoother.

I don't notice any air leaks coming from the valve cover seal (it was coming from the front, in the middle area, above the exhaust manifold). I did remove the cap from the valve cover while the motor was running and noticed a constant fluctuation between positive/negative pressure. A piece of paper over the hole will vibrate up and down, not being blown away or sucked in.


Modified by afreeclimber at 11:51 AM 4/8/2008
afreeclimber is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 
submit to reddit
Reply

Tags
1986, 2000, accord, align, alignment, balance, balancer, honda, marks, pully, rear, shaft, timing, v6, valves

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Timing belt walk (please help!!) CptHMCrunch Honda Prelude 5 07-04-2014 04:38 PM
96 RL Timing Belt Help Tsuwa Acura TL, RL & ZDX 0 05-12-2013 05:37 PM
F22 timing issue H - Badge Boondocker Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) 3 03-02-2009 05:27 AM
94 Accord EX Timing Belt Replacement Questions s13_240sx_92 Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) 3 10-25-2005 10:42 AM
F22A6 Balance Shaft??? 91AccordSE Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) 2 08-07-2004 01:53 PM



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:09 PM.



2014 Copyright, InternetBrands Inc.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 AC1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Honda and the Honda marquee are registered trademarks of the American Honda Motor Company, Inc. Neither American Honda Motor Company nor its subsidiaries or affiliates shall bear any responsibility for Honda-Tech.com content, comments, or advertising. Honda-Tech.com is not affiliated with American Honda Motor Company in any way. American Honda Motor Company does not sponsor, support, or endorse Honda-Tech.com in any way. Copyright/trademark/sales mark infringements are not intended or implied.
Emails & Contact Details