dwllama

Hi,
I've been doing a ton of reading on these subjects for the past few days and just want to be sure I have everything straight. I have a 96 accord, 2.2 not vtec (f22b2) and the situation that got me thinking on all this is that I have a little bit of oil in my spark plug tubes. They're not flooded or anything so it is not leaking bad but the ends of the wire boots are a bit damp/smeared with oil, its not clean new oil so obviously came out of the engine and wasn't spilled in from the top. So I clearly have a leak. The valve cover gasket and upper o-rings were done 30k miles ago when the previous owner had it in for the timing belt (gotta love having receipts for all the previous work on it, when I went and reread all that I was amazed at how much they actually did at once then) Anyway the receipt didn't mention the part for the lower tube seals and neither did the last receipt previous where they changed the valve cover gaskets (all OEM parts as far as I can tell) so I'm assuming those lowers haven't been touched in a long time.

I want to be sure I understand correctly, if I order from a place like majestic honda (is this the best place to order from? Ive seen it mentioned a few times on the forum) I need both one of 12030-PT0-000 gasket set, AND 4x 91301-PT0-003 O-rings right ?

I thought about just getting the Felpro set from where I work that includes both upper and lower o-rings but have read that felpro are not that long-lived on hondas/imports. Would rather have a gasket that lasts a good long while and spend a few more $ for it.

Is it necessary to turn the engine to any particular spot to pull the rocker arm assembly out? one or two walkthroughs mentioned it (to different spots) and more didn't say anything at all.

RE valve adjustment, the sticky doesn't link anything for f22. I'm assuming the principle is the same regardless, just check my manual/under the hood sticker for the clearance. I've never even been in an engine before so I am a little nervous but it seems more like a bunch of little fiddly stuff that you have to pay attention to and get right, than anything that is necessarily hard to do. am I right? fiddly stuff I can do. I understand its better to have the valves a little loose than a little tight (if you have to err at all). Anyway, they were done 30k ago too, so mostly I just want to check and be sure they all line up right after I remove and reinstall the rocker arm.

last of all, I've read a bunch of stuff about painting valve covers, but have 3 questions that nobody seems to have answered very well. First of all, how long does it actually take to get it from the time you pull it off the car to when you put it back on? This is the only car I've got so I have a max of 3 days before I will have to drive it again and I can't tell if it will be OK to put a fresh painted cover back on within that time or not.
Second, how important is it to use high temp paint? I've seen people talk about how their valve covers look in 6 months, but I'm more concerned about a couple years. I don't want to HAVE to do it again unless I WANT to do it again
Third, everybody talks about stripping paint off. Mine doesn't seem to be painted, it's just metallic. Would I still want to use some kind of aircraft remover? (Funny thing, the aircraft remover we sell says specifically: Not for use on aircraft!) Or do I just need to clean it pristinely and sand it up a bit?

if I have time to do the job I'm planning basically to prime, paint, and clear coat.

I may not do it at the same time as the rest of this though, turns into a pretty big project!

Thanks for any help.

mrules45

I have recently done, the lower tube seal replacement, and a valve adjustment, so this procedure is fresh in my mind. The whole process is relatively simple. I didn't rotate the engine to any particular point before pulling the rockers. You don't really need to worry about keeping tension on the camshaft either, it won't pop up.

One important note is that it would be very bad to turn the rocker assembly upside down, as the fasteners would fall out. So be careful with this.

During reassembly it may be a little tough to seat the assembly again as it will be attempting to open a few valves depending on the position of the camshaft.

The valve adjustment is pretty easy as long as you have patience, in my accord, same engine and year as yours btw, the valves were still mostly in spec and hadn't ever been adjusted before, over 125k miles.

dwllama

good to know. the guy that brought to my attention the oil on the spark plug wires seemed to think it isn't possible without adjusting the timing belt and that if I try it myself I'm going to mess it up. everything I have read on the internet says otherwise (including the video I watched from ericthecarguy where he shows step by step what he does)
patience is easier for me to come by than brute strength or for that matter "knowing all the tricks". if patience and paying attention is all it takes I think I will be fine.

Any experience with the timeline on painting valve covers, and whether it makes a difference in lifespan of the paint job if you use high temp paint, would still be very appreciated.

djkurious

As stated by mrules45, do not turn the rocker assembly upside down. If you happen to do that , make sure the fastners stay in. They hold the springs and valves in place.

dwllama

Yeah the idea of the whole thing flying apart in 50 pieces does NOT sound appealing..... having to reassemble the rocker arm would be quite a bit more than I'm bargaining for. definitely gonna be careful about that!

StreetsideStig

The other really important thing to remember about the rocker arm assembly is to put it back on slowly and carefully. You're doing the valves, so you'll have this covered, but make sure the valve stems don't get caught on the rocker arms. The arms should move freely up and down. I bent a valve messing this up, and that was the end of my '90.

Let us know how it turns out!

djkurious

This guided me through for seals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYU8q...layer_embedded

This guided me through for valve adjustment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7wI4EtZSaA

dwllama

thanks djkurious watched both of those twice already (and will again before I'm through I'm sure). Having more information never hurts! Will probably be a few weeks or a month until I can get to it, I can't even order my parts yet.. just getting anxious to do it now, I'm (strangely) looking forward to it. I plan to take pictures as I recall the thread in the FAQ didnt have any.

darn this waiting for money business.

dwllama

Wanted to update in case anyone reads this thread later, I found this post https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/lower-seals-2429556/ which has a more complete walkthrough of the process including how and why to line up your engine to TDC on cyl 1, the reason for which is in case the camshaft moves you can make sure to line it up back where you had it.

I dont know if I should have lumped all these subjects together, but does anyone have any input on whether it makes a difference long-term if you use high-temp paint on the valve cover? Its more expensive and comes in fewer color options but if it will last longer I'd still go for it.

dwllama

Well, I didn't have the $ to get paint, so will have to do the valve cover some other time. (Maybe when it's actually warm outside!) I'm sure if I go in within a few months, my valve cover gasket will still be fine to reuse.

I did replace my lower tube seals. Put it at TDC just in case, took the rocker arm assembly off, took out the old ones (nice and crunchy...) and put in a nice new set of OEM o-rings. Then put the assembly back on, torqued it down and did my valve adjustment.

I have a question after some photos I took in case they are helpful to anyone. Feel free to redistribute these particular photos where ever they may be useful. For clarity's sake, these are from a 96 accord, f22b2. You can see them full size on my google photo album

Valve cover off, you can see how much oil is down in the tubes:

Right and left sides of the cam/valves after removing the rocker arm:


Rocker arm assembly sitting on the counter ready to flip over. The six bolts toward the lower right side of the image are the ones you want to make sure don't come out. They fit into slots on that rod that the springs are wrapped around. The other bolts came out when we flipped it and caused no trouble.

The bottom of the rocker arm where the new o-ring goes. After cleaning it up mostly.



So on to my question.

I adjusted my valves, because I figured after taking off the rocker arm and putting it back on, it was a good idea (plus of course to make sure everything was lined up and making contact where it should after moving it.)
When I started and test drove it (3-4 miles including highway speeds) after everything was reassembled saturday night, the car was super quiet. I've never heard it so quiet. You can bet that made me happy.
Then monday I drove it home from my parents' house, about 100 miles, didn't notice any change in noise on the trip, still happy with the work we did.
Then today (tuesday) I started it up, for the first time since the job cold outside all night (at my parents', it was in the garage), and it's ticking again, didn't think much of it since it was colder out and it always has ticked more when cold, but after my 10 mile drive to work it still had a little tick, and also I noticed the car seems to vibrate more at a stop than I remember.
What I'm worried about is, is it possible we didn't get one of the nuts on the adjusting screws down tight enough, and its loosened up the adjustment I did? If that's a possibility how important is it to get back in there? (I don't have a torque wrench of appropriate range for the valve cover bolts up here, just at my parents house 100 miles away :/ ) Any other ideas about the increased vibration? its POSSIBLE that I'm imagining that part, but I don't remember feeling the vibration in the wheel at a stop before.

Oh, we also replaced the plugs (NGK iridiums), wires (also NGK), cap and rotor (from majestic honda same as my gaskets) if this makes any difference.

Would really appreciate if somebody can get back to me tonight as I have most of the day tomorrow before I have to go into work again if I need to do anything with the car.
Thanks for the help.

bdmlilburn

i never torque the nuts when doing a valve adjustment. just hand tighten til it dont wanna move anymore. but if its seems to be getting louder check and make sure your oil level first. you may need to open it back up and check the clearances again and make sure everything is tight.

dwllama

I didn't torque the adjustment nuts, just the bolts that I removed and reinstalled with the rocker arm assembly. We hand tightened them with a box end wrench until thoroughly snug (like you said..they didn't want to move anymore, even with a firm pressure)
I didn't check the oil today, but I did check it yesterday and had plenty. (too dark to check now but I will in the morning)

I do have a slow leak (rear main) but haven't had to actually top off the oil since I changed it last in mid december. Even the spark plug tubes having half an inch of oil at the bottom didnt make a visible difference on the dipstick.

If it is not as tight as it should be, is it going to cause a problem, or can it wait until next time I make it down to my parents' house and have the convenience of the garage?

dwllama

I checked my oil level. perfectly fine.

StreetsideStig

One safe way to check valve clearances is to pull one of the spark plugs and hand-turn the engine.

As for the RAA bolts, I would recommend that you invest in a good torque wrench.

dwllama

Sorry if I seem dense, but how does pulling the plug and turning the engine help check the valve clearance? or do you mean with the valve cover off?

We used a decent, and calibrated, torque wrench to tighten the RAA bolts down. But the valve adjustment nuts didn't have a torque specification in the Haynes.

After driving the car some more today, I can say a) it runs fine, no difficulty whatsoever in doing what it needs to do to get from point a to point b in the speed I want it to; b) the rhythm of the vibration at idle reminds me of when it had a misfire, so I am guessing maybe one cylinder is not perfectly in tune with the others; and c) by the time I get to 10mph the vibration is completely indistinguishable from road and tire noise, so it's really not like it's bad or anything, Im just paranoid and think about my car too much

If it doesn't change any further I don't think I will worry about it until i get the car back to my dad's house where he has all the tools (and a garage to work in where it will hopefully be above 30 degrees, and at least not snowing) at which point I would want to recheck the valve lash. Unless anyone thinks there is any more pressing need for me to do anything with it?

bdmlilburn

you dont need a torque wrench and you cannot check the clearance without removing the valve cover. just make sure when adjusting them in the correct firing order that you are rotating the crank the appropriate amount of degrees. i always make marks to be sure. a little bit off will turn into a valve tick

hand tightening the valve nuts as you suggested is how i always do it. if you think they may have moved though its best to pull the valve cover off and check them again

oh and by the way i get paranoid about little noises too. anything that sounds different. sometime i will stand with the hood open moving my head around and up and down in the bay thinking im hearing something weird but its nothing better safe then sorry though

dwllama

My dad was the one rotating the engine (used the PS pulley) but I believe he was lining up the marks on the timing pulley with the edge of the head. I also visually checked to be sure the rocker arms weren't on the cam lobes at all. Is there another trick you're talking about that I should use when I double check or is that good enough?

bdmlilburn

the mark that line up with the head are the best to use so correct. when you turn the crank 180 counterclockwise degrees and you started at tdc then your good. check ignition timing too after adjusting if you feel it still acts weird

piston numbers passenger side 4 3 2 1 driver side
adjustment order 1-3-4-2

StreetsideStig

Yeah, that's what I meant. Sorry, it was a little cryptic. But yes, visually checking them while hand-turning the engine is always a good idea. (I learned that the hard way.)

dwllama

Well, I went back in today and redid them. had to adjust all intake valves. Not sure if I just left them too loose before or what, the adjustment nuts didn't seem loose, but the valves were looser than I thought I had left them. (I probably could have adjusted all the exhaust too but I didn't, they mostly seemed close enough to where i wanted them that I didn't bother except on cyl 1 and 3) tightened the nuts down pretty good this time and rechecked.

took the car for a test drive, still have some vibration and a little ticking (which i understand is normal for honda anyway) but it is smoother instead of having a weird rhythm to it. Maybe the car always had a vibration like that and I never noticed until it was a little off. still I don't so much remember feeling it in the steering wheel before.

Anyway, the way it is now it seems like it is probably fine to me, so if it stays like that after a few days I dont think I will worry about it. If it doesn't, well, I will take it to my buddy that has a shop and ask him to learn me good on doing my valves