hometheaterman

So I've been having an issue with it shaking really badly at idle. I thought it was a missfire so I changed the plugs, wires, dist cap, and rotor. Anyway, that didn't fix it. It doesn't seem to do it when you first start it up but it starts before I can make it out of the driveway. When on the gas it seems to do fine but when not on the gas it just runs extremely rough constantly shaking. Feels almost like your in a cammed big block when it just rumbles. That's how the car does. You can also kind of hear the exhaust note not being exactly right. The check engine light flashes at times also. It is usually always on do to EGR Flow insufficient code and when the EGR valve didn't fix it I just left the light on as it has ran fine for years since. I'm hoping to check the codes tonight but any other idea's until then?

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

check the harmonic balancer and the motor mounts.

PnX-R

It's been awhile. But as I recall, changing the EGR valve itself is not enough. You also have to clean out the EGR ports. Those are usually clogged and throw that EGR code. Do a search and you should find your answer.

http://home.comcast.net/~em-engineering/T2T013.pdf

hometheaterman

The problem doesn't seem to be related to the EGR flow insufficient code. It's been throwing that for a couple of years and run fine. It's now throwing a P0301 code though saying it's a missfire on cylinder 1. Any idea's? I've changed plugs, wires, dist. cap, and rotor, which didn't fix anything. Actually, changed the valve cover gasket too but not to help with this issue. None of this fixed it. Any idea's on what to check next?

quickster

check your timing if cylnder one is misfiring. could be that easy

hometheaterman

So I gave up on this thing after not being able to figure it out. I took it to one of the best mechanics I've ever met yesterday. He called me this afternoon and said he had been messing with it all morning and couldn't figure it out at all. He has done a leak down test, compression test, compression test while running, checked all the valves to make sure they were adjusted within spec, and everything else he said he knew to check and can't figure it out. This is the first time I've ever seen this man stumped. He said that all of the tests came back good and that it was only missing at idle which I knew. As soon as you give it any gas it doesn't misfire again until you let off of the gas and it returns to idle. He said at idle on the running compression test he did see cylinder one had lower compression but that he didn't know what was causing it. Only at idle did it have the lower compression.

I'm going to pick it up this afternoon but he said he just didn't have a clue what it was and that I might could find someone that knows more about those motors than he does but that he couldn't help me. Like I said this guy is the best mechanic I know. He does work on everything though so it's not that he just specializes in Honda's like some guys.

Do you guys have any suggestions? I'm very close to just trying to find a used motor to throw in there.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

change the cap and rotor with dealer parts.if that dot work, check the distributor. the bearing may be wearing out and shifting the distributor shaft. try swapping it with a friends

hometheaterman

I don't think the cap and rotor is the problem. I'm not sure about the distributor. I did see a little oil in it like it's seal is leaking. Could that cause the problem just at idle? The mechanic seemed fairly confident it was in the motor but I'm just not sure.

If I swap distributors do I have to retime it? I know the timing stays the same when removing the dist and then putting it back on. What about if I put a new one on? Then do I have to adjust the timing?

hometheaterman

Also what's the deal with the check engine light flashing? Is it safe to drive like this? I'm wondering if I should just drive it until something happens. It seems to run perfect with lots of power once on the gas. It's only at idle that it misfires.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

its probably flashing a code....oh no its OBD2 so you got to check it with a scanner. i'm not sure theyre supposed to flash though on OBD2 stuff...it might be telling you that there are major issues and its flashing to really get your attention LOL but IDK for sure. put a scanner on it and check the code or codes. if the dizzy is going out then you will get multiple codes related to the ignition system

hometheaterman

I have put a scanner on it and the code is misfire on cylinder 1 as I stated above. That's the only code it throws.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

oh yeah-many non dealer caps and rotors have a sight bit of play in them...mainly the rotor. also i have seen them be like 2 mm off to one side in the copper contact on the end causing mis fires. thats why in this shop we only use dealer caps and rotors and spend the extra money. its not much more.

hometheaterman

It doesn't seem to be the cap or rotor. Is there a way to check and see if it could be the distributor? I'm just wondering because of the little bit of oil I found inside of it. Is the only solution there to get another one?

Is there anything else to check or if I do the distributor and it doesn't fix it should I just assume it's the motor? I just don't want to get another motor only to still have the problem.

hometheaterman

Well, I tried changing the distributor and that didn't do anything either. I'm thinking the mechanic I took it to has to be right and it has to be something in the motor acting up.

cctgene

Just a thought - Have you considered the possibility of a leaking fuel injector on the number one cylinder?

hometheaterman

I just checked out the injectors by making sure they are getting power but the mechanic not only did that but also said he checked them out with a scope and it seemed to be working just as well as the other 3.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

okay, so we know you have new (good) spark plugs-NGK standards and theyre gaped correctly....you have checked the ignition wires and tested the resistance on them and checked for breaks in them......and you have the correct compression within the specs.....and your cap and rotor are dealer parts....(yes there are issues sometimes with the cheap ones from autozone and other parts stores)......and you have tested the ICM and its good.....and you tested the ignition coil and its good....(i believe there are two coils-the primary and the secondary and the secondary cannot be tested with an ohm meter-so replace it)......and the injectors are fine and they were tested for their spray pattern and flow rate oh no they weren't. the scope tests electrical signals-ot flow and spray. well i would say replace these parts. first

hometheaterman

I have the OEM NGK Plus gapped correctly. I had them before and have them again now. The only difference I see is the old plugs said made in Japan where as the new ones while the same number say made in the USA. However, it was doing it with the old set and the new set. I have replaced the plug wires and it did it with both the old set and new set. How can I check for resistance? I have one of those pen looking things you can stick on the wire and see the spark coming through. All of the wires look like they have good spark with this.

As for the OEM cap and rotor I don't have the OEM one but I don't think it's the issue. The old cap and rotor ran fine for many miles then this problem started. I replaced the cap and rotor and still have this exact problem. I'm not saying it's perfect but it doesn't seem like it would do it with two sets of caps and rotors when I've never had a problem before.

What is the ICM and how do I test it? That's something I haven't done.

As for the coils aren't both inside the distributor on this car? I replaced the whole distributor and it didn't make a difference.

The injectors I didn't have tested for a spray patter so maybe I should do that.

As for the compression it has great compression doing a normal compression test. When doing a compression test with it running the cylinder 1 compression is a lot lower at idle than the rest. Once you get on the gas it jumps back up to the rest though.

4doorH22

It's a long shot, but try swapping the #1 injector with any one of the others or maybe swap each one over and see if your code changes.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

okay, if you only get the correct compression when you get on it then thats the problem most likely. what are the compression specs? they shouldnt be more than a certain amount lower than the rest. on some cars for example it is 28 psi. but what are your specs first?

hometheaterman

I only did the normal compression test. The mechanic did the one with it running. I forgot the exact numbers he told me. Should I see if he still has them written down? I know they were all within 15 psi when just doing a normal compression test. With it running he said the number 1 cylinder was a lot lower until you get on the gas. That's why he is convinced it's something in the motor. He said at idle it was way lower than the rest.

HondaPartsHero

http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

sounds like a leaking valve. or had gasket. or rings. but its probably in the head or head gasket. put a block tester on it and see if there are exhaust gasses in the coolant system. (i dont think its a crack in the block cylinder walls). if its good, then you have a leaking valve seat, most likely. or the valve could also be damaged and not on the seat properly. see if you can get the specs from the guy. i keep records of all that kind of stuff so i dont have to re-do work all the time.

hometheaterman

Do you know on average what it would cost to have someone do the block test you talked about? I don't want to dump a ton into it but it sounds like what I need to do.

RICKSAUTOMOTIVE

the block test is free basically. go to autozone and rent their block tester. open your radiator cap (be careful-its under pressure and its gonna be hot). put the fluid in the block tester, put the tester on the radiator and start the car. test the block. all you do is stand there and hold that block tester. then return the tester. they might charge you a couple bucks for the fluid but thats it.