bLiSS

Hi,

I am completely new to this community :] and I would like to know a bit of information about getting more power for my 97 Accord EX

I recently got it from my dad, I'm still in college, and I love driving it : stock 4L 2.2 with automatic transmission, I have no idea how to drive with a manual transmission in real life.

So I've been attracted to getting more power for it, so I heard about blowers, superchargers, turbos ? All different terms to me :[ and I have no idea what those are, I live in East Coast Canada, so there aren't a lot of shops for tuning cars, except the dealer that will do it but I think it's gonna be way expensive.

In short, I would like to get at least 50 to 100 horses if possible, stock is 130. That power boost would need to be usable daily without damaging too much the engine. And my budget would be 2000$ CAN max, that makes about a bit more than 3000$ US.

Please don't just give me links to sites with turbos, or superchargers only :[ I would really appreciate more info in what they do, and what type of things is available to me.

I REALLY appreciate anyone reading through all of this thanks for your time.

YodiBrodi

eesh that's a tall order. if you want that much extra power you're gonna have to do a lot more work to the engine and transmission to handle that kinda power. as far as the turbo and supercharger. i say do a search on google you can find a whole helluvalotta info on it. here's a short overview though. both superchargers and turbos pressurize air before it goes into the engine. more air has to be coupled with more fuel to make more power. the way they are powered is what makes the difference. superchargers use engine power by way of a belt to turn the compressor veins, turbines, lobes (depends what type of supercharger you use to what you have). turbos are "free" power in that they use the wasted energy in the exhaust to turn a compressor turbine. turbos are better for making more power but to do so they must be spooled up to a certain rpm which needs more gas flow to turn the turbine to these speeds which means higher engine speeds to provide that energy. this period where the turbine is ineffective is called turbo lag. superchargers are better for responsiveness as they are almost always compressing air but the are not as efficient as turbos (they take power from the engine to make power) and cannot usually handle the higher boost levels. now compressed air generates heat (just like if you puncture an aresol can it gets cold as the air expands, the opposite is true if you compress air it heats). hot air is not as high of "quality" as the oxygen content is lower per unit of volume. so both turbos and superchargers use an item called an intercooler. think of it as a radiator for air. it cools the intake charge (pressurized air before in enters the engine) to improve the quality and oxygen content as well as preventing detonation by lowering the temperature in the cylinders. detonation is caused by hot spots in the cylinder walls and on the piston domes that prematurely causes the fuel to combust, which is very bad. forced induction is hard on the engine internals, that's why to acheive the power levels you are looking for will cost more than $3k. somebody fill in what i have forgotten or might have mad a mistake on i'm tired of typing

bLiSS

woah

Much appreciated :] for the reply that fast !
That was pretty much the information I was looking for. So I see that with my 3000$ budget, I couldn't get close to my goal huh :]

But I have heard and talked with people that say there are other alternative ways to get a smaller amount of boost for the engine. I speak french, so I'll try to translate the name of parts the best I can.

They usually recommend me to swap a certain chip or I think it's called ECU, from the engine, making it more responsive, improved acceleration, etc. They also talk about an Air Intake system or something like that, supposed to give me a minor boost. Some other things I will try to translate are, a less restrictive exhaust (?) and airflow for the engine (?), I really have no idea if I got the words right.
So those little modifications are supposed to give me about 15% for power according to them.

Would those be useful ? I don't know about the price of those though, someone fill me in about these other modifications ?

Again, thanks to YodiBrodi

YodiBrodi

yes i know what you are talking about. the problem with the ECU is that i don't think the accords have an aftermarket support for those. a couple companies like jet offer some kind of upgrade but from what i've heard from the guys on here is they are crap. AEM cold air intakes are supposed to be a damn good way to invest $200(US) for 10-15 hp. exhaust will give you something of a boost for around $1000 for an entire system. but then there's a guy on here (KTeller8) that sells a custom catbacks for much cheaper, $200(US) i think. too bad the expensive exhaust will only give you equal to at best but most likely less power than the CAI. don't take everything i said before in my first post to heart. i'm pretty damn sure i got it all right at least all the concepts are but i might have made mistakes on the details. the guys on this board are always quick to point them out too. f22's are hard to get decent power out of naturally aspirated (non-turbo). you might get to 140-150hp with bolt-ons. unfortunately for you though the slushbox auto won't let you get the best out of it. that's another good mod if you ever learn to drive a stick. swap out the auto for a manny maybe even an h-tranny (shorter gear ratios). help me out guys i've never looked into building up an f22b


[Modified by YodiBrodi, 10:37 PM 11/25/2002]

bLiSS

oh right right I forgot to ask :

What is the number or serial/code of the engine in my Accord ?
it's the inline 4 2.2 97 EX
Is it F22 like you said?
What would be F22b ?

It's not like I can't drive in manual transmission cars :\ I can do it of course, but I will mostly granny shift and be able to drive it normally only, no chance I can get a decent acceleration or launch it correctly, I have no idea how to do it
I just find my automatic pretty decent for my car, I've driven a friend's stock Civic Si (canadian Si :1.6 with 127 horses, not the SiR with 160) with an automatic and my Accord was way more powerful, it felt like I had so much more power, I don't know why though, maybe a torque thing or displacement :]

I'll wait a bit for more feedback of the other members, because as you can see in my sig, I would like to get this project going during summer, May 2003 possibly. There is snow right now over here, so I'm not gonna do anything yet. Hopefully I can gather some money maybe 6000$ ?

What would be a decent kit for that much money? If there are any... hehe

NXAccordTO4B

turbo ur accord. I have the same year accord. get a f-max kit, best for u money

iam7head

go turbo with your 3k and worry about other bolt on later..
make sure you do it right the first time or everything else is gonna
fall apart.
good luck

bLiSS

Nice !
I see, a turbo would be good for the purpose I'm looking for ?
So I should search for the F-Max Kit over the internet and shop around in stores ? F-Max kit for Accord F22 ? That's the name of it ?
3000$ would be expensive but if it's worth it, I think it's a pretty decent investment.

So um, what are bolt-on's anyway :]

Thanks for you guys input also, I appreciate it.

www.blissvibe.tk is where I will have the progress of my Project Accord starting it May 2003, I'm still asking around to see what are differences between turbos and superchargers. I don't intend to add a body kit to it, only engine modifications :]

Steve04SVT

There are an array of things you can do to get more power from that motor with $3000US. However, the motor does have its limits. You have a '97 EX, that means you a F22B1, which is the VTEC version of the F22B2, which is the base motor that comes in the DX, LX, and '97 SE model Accords. Your motor actually has 145hp, not 130 like the F22B2. Simple bolt-ons such as a cold air intake, exhaust system, header, free-flow cat, will probably only yield ABOUT an additional 20-30hp easy. Then, there's nitrous. These systems can add anywhere from 25-75hp, depending on which brand you go with and whether it's a wet or dry system. There are other small bolt-ons you could do that would only add a meager amount of horsepower, such as pulleys, fuel press. regulators, etc. Not much can be done by the of the computer. Like Yodi said, companies out there make ECU upgrades or electronic performance adders, but many people on this board have tried those things only to find out they weren't what what they expected in forms of HP increases.

Then, there are turbos. Now, to my knowledge there isn't a company out yet that make superchargers for our cars. F-Max supposedly has a great turbo kit for the Accord, and if it were me, I'd probably order one of their kits. But remember one thing, the rods and pistons in the Accord are weak. You can "boost" the motor, but only to a safe amount of boost. MORE BOOST=HOTTER COBUSTION=MORE FUEL! The F-max does supply two additional injectors that attach to the upper pipe that they include in their kits. The operate via an computerized unit that must be wired into the ECU.
Also, you could do a motor swap. Ideally, an H22 from a Prelude is the choice among a lot of Accord owners. There are other motor swaps you could do, but I won't discuss those (try a search). Mainly the H22 is the usual choice.

Last, the automatic tranny you have won't stand up to too much HP. The best thing to do would be to swap your auto tranny for manual. IMO Learning to drive manual is simple, trust me. Once you learn, you'll never want to drive an auto again. You can swap the tranny from another Accord or even a Prelude. Remember one other thing, we all want to go fast, but the Accord was never built to do that. Its enemy is WEIGHT! Our cars weigh a lot, and unless you trim down the weight, your efforts for more HP will be futile.

Sorry, for being so long. Just thought this might also help.





[Modified by Steve96Accord, 3:20 AM 11/26/2002]

bLiSS

Thanks a lot for the information Steve :]

but, there is one little mistake I live in Canada, over here, the DX, LX, EX models are equipped with the 4L 2.2 with 130 horses, the EX-R must be equal to the US version EX with the 145 horses, and our V6 models got the 2.7 170 horses if I'm not mistaken, hehe. so um, according to you, the 145 hp one is the F22B1 and mine is the F22B2 correct ?

So I see bolt-ons must be what people have been recommending me, are the bolt-ons usable if I don't turbo or supercharge my engine ? If they are okay on a stock F22B2, I will mostly add the Cold Air Intake, the Exhaust System, header, and Free-flow cat (what is that??). That would be pretty nice to have about 25 hp, added to the 130 I would be quite happy with 155 horses !

You talk about nitrous ? That is what the brand NOS makes right ? Are those one-shot boost ? Like I can use it only once ? If it is, I'm not quite interested by that hehe, I prefer having low rpm power under my foot that I can use everyday :]

So I think I'll would probably go with the bolt-ons for now : one question though
Are there any steps ? or which part to install first ?

I'm looking for Cold Air Intake, Exhaust System, header, and Free-flow cat for my F22B2

Please Please give me more information about what those are and if you are very nice, explain what they do also. Much for you guys

Again, thanks Steve and the other guys


[Modified by bLiSS, 8:08 PM 11/26/2002]

accordexchange

20-30hp, my ***... someone's been reading too much Import Tuner...

SOHCArchangel

noone is making anything without tossing the stock 02 sensor housing

Mike P.

That's how I feel about this "shituation," Mr. Archangel.

SOHCArchangel

magg0t

bLiSS

Hehe :]

I see there are a bit more people reading this thread now !

So um, any feeback for me ? Into what I'm getting for the F22B2, maybe someone could fill me in brands or type of parts to look for.

Right now, I'll need the cold air intake, exhaust system, header and free-low cat.
Brands, type of parts and explanation or information about the above is welcome and much appreciated

Anyone with modified F22B2 out here ? or something close to the 97 Accord. Maybe you could share some information with me ! like parts to get and tell me what you guys did to your car.

Thanks in advance.

floridaccord

You may be in for some sticker shock, as at current rates $2,000 Canadian is only $1,270 US, not $3,000.

bLiSS

lol

My bad... I mixed everything up... 3000$ US is like 5000$ CAN damn Americans :\ hehe

Let's say I have around 3000$ CAN... that makes what ? less than 2000$...

While we're bumping the thread :

Anyone with cold air intake, headers, free/high flow cat and exhaust system on their F22B2 Accord ?

Care to share some information with me please ? I would like to have some brands or the type of parts you guys use or recommend.

Thanks

Steve04SVT

IMO, the best aftermarket cold air intake is made by AEM. I think most people will agree with me. Now, I have heard that the CAIs for the 92-96 and 97-pres. Preludes are interchangeable. The one that is made for the 94-97 Accords is I believe 2 1/2", while the Preludes are 2 3/4" and 3" respectively. HELP ME OUT GUYS IF THIS INFO. IS INCORRECT. The idea is that the more air you get into the motor, the better off you are. For example, if you go w/ the 2 1/2", you might notice a definite gain in low end power. On the other hand, if you get the 3", you might notice a lack of low end power, but a gain high-end power. I would do more research on this to see exactly what works best.
As far as headers, Kamikaze makes a great header for the Accord. They offer different collector sizes, and from what everybody has said, go with the 2 1/2" collector. F22s like to breathe, or so I have read. I guess you could say that the more air you bring in, the more air you need to let out.
As far as a high flow cats., Carsound cats. are affordable and have a better flow than the stock catalytic converter. There are numerous others, but ask other people their opinions. You could also get a testpipe, which is basically a straight piece of pipe the goes in place of the cat. and allows for unrestricted exhaust flow. While it is illegal, most people get one anyways, usually for track purposes. I had one, but I went w/ the Carsound cat. instead.
IMO Greddy makes great exhausts for the Accord. There are other brands out there, but Greddy seems to be the most popular. Personally, I have a Greddy Evo on my '96 Accord. The sound is great throughout all RPMs, and cosmetically, it looks great too. There is a member by the name KTeller8 (forgive me if I mispelled the name) who makes custom exhausts for our cars. He can fabricate you a complete system. If I could go back, I would have ordered one his. Support fellow H-T members. IM him and find out how much he can fabricate one for you.

EuRoBrO

You got 3 grand, do a motor swap to an H-duece-duece!

bLiSS

woah much thanks for the big info you gave me there Steve :]

So finally I know a CAT is a catalytic convertor, lol ! I see now...

But um, you're saying it is illegal ? I don't know if what I think cat's are... BUT when I'm on the streets and I can actually feel and hear the car coming behind me with a loud, but much like a cat purr sound, those are cars with modified exhaust pipes ? or is it the cat that makes the sound ? Enligten me please :]

Well, I don't know if it is illegal over here in Canada, but there are quite a few cars that got those big exhausts that run on the streets without cops pulling them over. Is it different over where you are ? in the US ?

I'm gonna shop around and look for parts on the net and maybe at my Honda dealer, they might have it !

Thanks again.

Steve04SVT

First, remember the prupose of a catalytic converter, or cat., is to eliminate the toxic gases in the exhaust mixture. It merely protects the environment from pollution. The inside of a cat. is filled with a huge block (for lack of words) that looks like a big honeycomb. It allows exhaust gases to pass through, while at the same time it gets rid of all the pollutants. The honeycomb inside the cat. is what cause the restriction, aside from the size of the exhaust. The more restrictions you have in your exhaust, the quieter it generally will sound. By just adding an exhaust system and leaving the factory catalytic converter, the sound will be great, and will probably have a deep mellow tone throughtout all RPMs, but this does depend on what muffler you get. Once you eliminate the cat. and add a testpipe, you increase the sound of the exhaust as it leaves the car. It won't sound bad, at least mine didn't, but you will notice a definite sound increase. However, if you go with a high-flow cat., you will hear a noticeable difference, but not as loud as a testpipe. If you're gonna stick to the motor you have and mod it up, then I would make sure that you have a solid 2 1/2" exhaust system, from header collector to muffler, to take full advantage of potential Accord power. It is up to you whether you want to go with a 2 1/2" high-flow cat. or a 2 1/2" testpipe. All in all, with the money you have to spend, you should have no problem unwrapping the potential HP your car has. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions. We all have to start somehwere.
Steve

bLiSS

Nice ! Thanks again Steve :]

Let me clarify this a bit for myself since I speak french, and I'm not too familiar with the terms, hehe.

So, the exhaust pipe is that tube that I can SEE right now without crouching down right ? It's the stock exhaust with like, some aluminium trim around it, the hole is no bigger than a golf ball I would say.

And then, the cat is the catalytic convertor ? that, umm oval shaped cylinder ? that is UNDER the car, and I need to crouch to see ? right ? or is that the muffler ? and the cat is the tube before the muffler ?

So you are saying having an exhaust system and leaving the stock cat makes a nice deep tone in all rev's of the engine ? I see...

So I see the testpipe is just a straight tube, that sounds pretty loud huh ? I think I've heard those... I didn't like it too much, so I think what I need is the high flow cat I "think". But I want to make sure to do what you recommend me : is the exhaust pipe 2 1/2" or the cat is ? I'm a bit confused there.

Thanks for your time :]

Steve04SVT

The cat. is located under the car near the center of the car. The muffler is the object at the end, with the chrome tip, or at least in the U.S. it has a chrome tip. When you purchase what is called a cat-back exhaust, it is basically all the piping after the cat. with the muffler at the end. Generally, when you buy an aftermarket system for the Accord, they are all 2 1/2" systems. You will be fine with just the cat. back exhaust itself and the stock cat. But like I said before, the stock cat., or any stock cat. for that matter, is VERY restricted. If you decide to go with a high-flow cat., then make sure that it has a 2 1/2" inlet and outlet and that it can be BOLTED up to the exhaust system and the header, rather than WELDED. The way I see it, and I'm sure others will agree, if you buy a 2 1/2" exhaust system, and you have the ability and funds to make everything (from header collector to muffler) 2 1/2", then you'll be better off. Essentially, what you have is the same volume of exhaust traveling from the motor, all the way out through the muffler. Let me also point out that there are different styles of mufflers out there that will have different sounds. My Greddy Evo exhaust has a nice mellow tone to it with the high-flow cat.

KTeller8

hey there, he is right
the mufflers *boxy looking item at the back of the car* are a big cause of the "sound" you hear from the cars. But also the setup matters to. *what i mean is the size of your piping, if you run a high flow cat, or those test pipes** all that matter in the sound. Plus there are "resonators" you can use to help lower the sound.

AEM is one of the best Air intakes out there, but for the amount of money you spend on them, i wonder if its really all that better than any other intake, most of the intake system serve the same purpose. Since its cold up there, you might want to look for piping at a local hardware store and start to mess with it, maybe make your own, since youll have time. to cold to go play outside aye?

Other bolt-ons are " items that are easily replaced or Bolted on". There are a few other thing you could do to the car. underdrive pulleys, fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator.

no matter what you do and how you do it. be happy with what you got and what youve done. its a learning process and TAKE IT SLOW, dont rush into things. learn and read up on items and prices

bLiSS

I'm gonna write something real quick here, before I come back and make my regular essay with 100 questions lol

I have been looking around on the net now, and found a few things, but I have a few questions I will mostly ask you guys maybe tonight or tomorrow, so bear with me please !

For now... I think someone is trying to send me a private message, and since I'm a trial user, I can't see it yet ! so please post it here !

Thanks