SnoopyMan

Hello,

January 30, 2013 @ 11:00 PM the car was finally ready to start. All fluids installed, topped off, battery installed, etc... no spark plugs installed, time to prime the engine with oil.

I turn the key, nothing. We have lights, radio, etc.. but the car won't crank, fuel doesn't prime, I can't get the car out of park. I install OBD scanner, one code for P0112. We try to start the car and it cranks. Possible cause, loose or missing ground; other reports of same on forum report G101 culprit.

After starting the car, we let it run for 15 minutes. We topped off the coolant, then tried to drive it; we had also swapped the CV Drive Shafts. I drove it to 30 MPH for ten minutes, then took it on a highway to 55 MPH for 10 minutes, then back home. The car appeared sluggish starting out from stop, 1 - 15 MPH, then drove find until it got to 55 MPH cruising... it went back to feeling sluggish. Some people in other forums warned of crossed MAP and TPS sensors; I assume the connectors are the same and are only inches apart. I will look at this tonight. I was wondering, does anyone else have any ideas? Could it be timing? I don't see anyway to turn this distributor. It only has two mounting bolts and does not seem like it's adjustable. 1998 Honda Accord, Automatic, L4 (4 Cylinder).

Any help is appreciated.





started. However, it will only start if the OBD Scanner is installed; without it won't crank at all, nor can you get the car out of park. I am claiming success, and vow never to journey within a few feet of the car ever again. We did let it run for 15 minutes, then drove it on the highway. It is slow to gain speed from 1 -15 MPH, then it's good until it settles into 55 MPH, then it appears sluggish again.

Mishako129

Are you in limp mode?

SnoopyMan

I had to look up "limp mode". It appears to be when the tach revs from 1-2k... I do not have that problem. However, at first start the idle is so low that I have to drive with both feet to rev higher and backup without stalling.

nus_dogg

With MAP and TPS connected up wrong will cause the car to run really rough at all times, no matter what. So that can't be it. It's gotta be something else.

Did you have the original ECU or had to get a used or different one from a junkyard or Ebay?

Mishako129

Clean your IACV (Idle air control valve) and clean and adjust your FTIV (fast thermo idle valve). That may fix your idle problem, but if the car shakes excessively then either you didn't put the balance shafts in time or you have a bad mount.

How many miles have you put on the engine, have you allowed the rings to fully seat yet? During the seating, you are supposed to press the gas 2/3 to wide open at certain speeds, this will seat the rings. If the rings are not seated you will not get good compression (which may cause bad idle), your car will be slow and you'll eat your oil.

Are you sure your valves were in good shape when you looked at the cyl. head? A burnt or broken valve would cause bad idle and bad acceleration.


Who rebuilt the engine is my question, you should tell us what you did to rebuild the engine. New rings, new valves, reconditioned parts, what was it?

SnoopyMan

First, I had the IAC and PWR Steering sensors swapped. We knew from other threads that there was a missing ground, and we knew we had one ground strap that seemed to go nowhere. We used jumper cables to ground it to engine and the start problems went away. In looking at the wiring diagram and some photos, we realized the missing ground strap would fit perfectly if plugged into the IAC, we then checked to see if the cable we had in the IAC would fit in the PWR Steering sensor. It did, we swapped them, and the car now starts fine.

Second, the IAC sensor is brand new. I broke it during the rebuild; it was laying in a container with other parts and I noticed it was broken so we replaced it.

Third, the machine shop rebuilt the head. They did all the cleaning of block and head, resurfacing of both, reground the valves, and put it all back together. They did say it was rebuilt before, but I assume it is back together correctly. All the other parts of the car, other than some broken sensors are original, at least as far as I can remember. However, my kid bought this at a ****-dealer, so anything could be possible. They probably bought this at auction for super cheap and got it running. I almost swear it was running the same way before he blew the exhaust vavle which caused zero compression in one cylinder.

OBD Scanner is calling out the following codes:
P0112 Intake Air Temperature (IAT) Sensor Circuit Low Voltage
P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input
P01491 No idea what this.

HiProfile

I'd suggest rechecking the valve lash (clearances).

You may also have to reset the idle due to a new motor & new IACV. Most Hondas it is: unplug IACV, adjust setscrew in throttle body to about 400rpm for manuals (not sure what automatic rpm speed is), stop engine and reset ecu (unplug for 10-30 seconds). Plug in IACV and go.

One last thing, a rebuilt engine will require some time to FULLy break in the rings. You will have 80-95% full power until they are seated 100%, which can take a few dozen to a few hundred miles. Believe it or not, running it wide-open throttle can help - but only if everything else is running right.

SnoopyMan

Update: P1491 EGR Valve Lift Insufficient Detected.

HiProfile: Redo valve lash? Really? I already had one sensor connector swapped by mistake, I am wondering if the TPS and MAPS could be swapped as well. I also have to adjust the throttle cable, I am almost sure it's too slack; as per service manaul. Power appears fine between 15-50 MPH, but after 50 had me think that maybe the VTEC was not engaging correcly. I also thought the distributor had to be fine tuned, but this model car it's not adjustable. 98 Accord LX 4DR, Auto, L4.

I am going to try and work the codes a bit, but I read somewhere it would be a good idea to re-adjust the valve lash anyway, after it's been running. So, that may be something I will tackle as well; I'm sure it was a lot easier when it was out of the car, then it will be now that it's in.

Thanks,

SM.

SnoopyMan

Correction: It was not the IAC connector, but the IAT (Intake Air Temp) Sensor that was swapped with the PSP (Power Steering Pump) Sensor. If that makes any difference.

SM.

SnoopyMan

Update: I also think the VTEC is not working.

I took some videos:

Engine started and running, sounds rough.
Reving engine.
Checking VTEC, engine sputters/stops at 4800 RPM.

Prudz_lude

iTrader: (1)

vtec will not engage in neutral. Did you do a valve adjustment? Check your timing as well.

SnoopyMan

Prudz,

Car was in park... is this the same thing? Car sounds rough to me.

Yes, we did the valve adjustment. I have not completed another one, after installing the engine.

Hooligan90

550 for automatics

Hooligan90

V-Tec will not engage in park, neutral or reverse, only in forward gears, and usually above 5500 rpm. Check your spark plugs for proper gap also. Sounds like fouled plugs in the video.. Also, do what others have suggested with cleaning your IACV and FITV. Also, disconnect your battery for a few minutes, then reconnect and start your car and let it idle until the fans come on without once touching the throttle pedal. See if that helps.

EfyourK

I agree with Hooligan plugs sound shot.. check cap rotor too while your there.

Hooligan90

Any update?

SnoopyMan

Sorry,
It's kinda cold, so I am avoiding the car .

The plugs are brand new, gapped, etc... but I can pull them to inspect to see if they are fouled.

I tried to remove the VTec Solenoid to check screen; I just want to ensure that it's clean as I never thought about replacing it during the rebuild, and may not have noticed its condition (I didn't put it on, my son did).

Hopefully I can do the suggestions tomorrow. I am not too keen on redoing the timing as it was so much easier when the engine was still out of the car, however, that may be required. Along with the valve lash and everything else. I did think about pulling the battery to reset the ECU... so I may do that first.

Thanks,
SnoopyMan

Hooligan90

The V-Tec doesn't engage unless you're actually moving in gear and your rpm's hit 5500 while driving. It will never engage in Park, Neutral or revers, even on a brand new vehicle

maystg

The blinking check engine light means something damaging to the engine or catalytic converter. so I'd check for things like correct ignition timing, enough fuel, detonation, anything like that

SnoopyMan

Maystg,

You may have something there. Before we ever took the engine apart, my kid attempted to "tune" the car up by replacing the spark plugs and cables, this did not improve the engine much. When I removed them to check them I saw green deposits on the number one spark plug coil, I cleaned it up no difference. When we took it to the shop, the mechanic did a pressure test indicating one of the cylinders was zero (blown exhaust valve), but he did mention the same green residue/corrosion on the distributor cap. Maybe I should get a new cap and rotor? Is there a method to test them before replacing them?

Thanks,

SnoopyMan.

SnoopyMan

To all: Update

I did not attempt to redo the timing yet, I wanted to check other stuff first.

1. I checked and tested the distributor which looks okay. Inside cover is dry and clean, spark looks through out (ignitor, coil, rotor, etc..). I check out the spark plug wires too, they check good. I pulled the sparkplugs, regapped them to tighter tollerences; they call for 1.0 to 1.1 mm, I made them 1.0 mm.

2. I check the compression on all cylinders and receive the following, I was interested in these numbers from the rebuild: #1 = 180, #2 = 200, #3 = 190, and #4 = 200 (tested dry).

3. I disconnected the battery for a few minutes to test if the codes in the computer were still valid (I had a P0112, P0113, and P1149?). Afterwards I checked for codes, no codes were present. I started the car and allowed it to get to temp, when it did it started reving erratically, 800-1600 RPMs. I then checked the codes and received a P0302, which indicated a cylinder #2 misfire.

SnoopyMan

Update: I spent several hours today redoing the timing belt as per the manual and a sticky guide on this site: https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...ing+belt+guide

After going through the adjustment several times, until the timing was perfect, I feel the timing was perfect. I started the car, it sounded better, but it is still indicating a blinking CEL and reporting a misfire on cylinder #2 (as indicated above in youtube posts).

Could my issue be the ECU? There is no adjustment for timing for this car via the Distribtor, and I am sure the timing belt is installed correctly, however I could put a light on it to ensure... it appears to me replacing the ECU would be my next step. This car did have a burnt valve on cylinder #2, could a failty ECU have caused such issues with the timing that it burnt out an exhaust valve?

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

SnoopyMan.

SnoopyMan

Also I had an issue in choosing which intake manifold gasket I should choose... could the misfire be caused by a vacuum leak on cylinder #2?

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/engine-rebuild-question-about-intake-gasket-one-3120118/

SnoopyMan

Update: I tested for vacuum leaks, using carb-cleaner method. Found none. I also swapped spark plugs and wires between cyl #1 and #2, fault did not follow. I will move on to swapping the injectors between same cylinders.

SnoopyMan

Update: Completed valve lash adjustment, no improvement. Also ohmed our injector for cyl #1 and #2, #2 being the one that has an issue, and it reads the same 11.2 Ohms. I am off to get some new gas and injector cleaner.