L.a.

my car wont rev past 4500, my cousin checked the cel and it came up as something along the lines of exhaust recirculater does this mean clean the egr ports?

Bad_dude

How deep are those original plugs on the EGR ports? I would like to know so I'll know how deep I can drill.

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

they're about half inch I'd say, long. just drill through the hole but very slowly making sure u have a lil grease on the end to catch any pieces of the plug. the thing is that ur gonna be using the screw threads to popout the plugs and u wantto be using as many threads as possible to be sure the screw comes out with the plug and doesn't break off so having the screw all the way through assures that.

holmesnmanny

i dont know much about codes but that would sound like egr valve. given how much the valve is i woul clean it first, along with the plugs, then clear the codes and see if that fixes it and/or throws the code again.

Bad_dude

Hey guys,
Instead of using the silver concave plugs that Honda sells to replug the ports, could we use small bolts and thread them in the ports? This will be easier for future service needs. What size bolts and tap would fit these ports, any one knows?
Has any one tried it?

Thanks.

Bad_dude

The honda's instructions only mention 4 ports to clean, but I notice that there are another 2 toward the front of the motor which require to take the fuel rail off to access. Are these 2 ports must be cleaned? Or the 4 ports in the back is enough?

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

To answer your first question, I don't see why you'd want to. But be that as it may, what if your screw leaks? Sounds like more possible work or problems.

Second question, you have to do all six.

mikep_95133

I like the idea of threaded holes too. But they can get clogged and maybe even seize up due to the carbon deposits that will accumulate with time.

The steel Honda replacement plugs are easy to install and fast to remove 100k miles from now.

The other two plugs you have found can give you better access to the entire egr runner for cleaning, but are hard to get those two plugs in and out. If your intake is removed then it's easy.

Mike

james007

I performed this procedure just yesterday. The difference in driving is nothing short of amazing. The throttle responds instantly. A change is especially noticeable when trying to accelerate from a constant cruising speed.

I wish to add a bit of advice to anyone considering attempting this. Use high quality drill bits and let them cool before moving onto the next plug. I broke one off just as I went though the damn thing. Thankfully, my runners were so incredibly clogged, the broken drill bit sat upright on a cake of carbon deposit until I was able to tweezer it out.

Bad_dude

It's good to hear the great result you had.
Could you please tell me, did you have to replace the o-rings on the fuel injectors? When putting back the fuel rail, did you have to lube the o-rings before putting it back? What did you lube it with?
I found a video of a guy who drill then screw onto the plug and leave the screw in for future service, instead of replacing them with the concave silver plugs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLU6MeRFdBY

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

Check this out, even the honda service manual says to put a small amount of engine oil on the plastic o-rings when putting the fuel rail back on.

When I took mine off I saw some old oil and dirt around the o-rings and I cleaned them out and put the fuel rail back on, thinking that the oil wasn't supposed to be there. Some people say to put silicone grease on the o-rings but I heard that the silicone will foul your oxygen sensor so I would avoid it. I think the engine oil on the o-rings will work fine. Mine had some already so I think that's why it was so easy. I didn't realize I needed the oil until after I did the assembly, but I was still fine.

Bad_dude

Thanks for the input. I read that you have to twist and turn the fuel rail back and forth to fit them in otherwise it will leak? How much if at force you have to use to get the rail back in? So the o-ring replacement is not that necessary.

Thanks,

holmesnmanny

Hardly any force at all, but like I said just make sure you got a lil bit of engine oil around the plastic o-rings when you put it back on. Just enough so that it's slightly wet. If it's dry, it might be a lil bit of a push. If the rings look broken, then change 'em. There are two, I think the small one is at the bottom and the top one is above it, just make a quick note when you take the rail off of how they sit.

Bad_dude

So both of the o-rings are at the top or the bottom ones we won't see right?
I know we got the lower and upper o-rings and the cushion rings in the middle of the fuel injectors right?

Thanks.

holmesnmanny

They'll be at the bottom when you take the fuel injectors with the rail out of the intake. I had the 3 and 4 cylinder rings fall out but I still had the 2 and 1 ones still in so it was easy to see how they went back on the fuel rail assembly.

Bad_dude

I would like to buy the o-rings just in case I need them while performing the work.

So should I buy a total of 8 o-rings? 4 upper and 4 lower? If I am correct, we are just removing the fuel rail and not the injectors right? So I would just need the 4 upper o-rings?
Not sure if I need the 4 cushion rings?

Thanks.

GhostAccord

Actually when you pull on the rail the injectors usually come with it. That is also the way the assembly should go back onto the intake, with the injectors in the rail.

So if you want to replace the seals and o-rings you need
4 O-rings - 91301-PM7-003 (16074-ZY3-000)
4 lower seals - 16472-P0H-A01

JoeBull

Yo Bad Dude. It sounds like Ghost is just reading from the manual. I replaced my injectors last fall. Yes according to the shop manual it says to install the injectors into the fuel rail first. (WRONG) I did this and it was a pain in the a** to get all four injectors into the intake. I wanted to hunt down the writer of the manual and beat the crap out of him. PUT THEM IN THE INTAKE FIRST. The intake has an O-ring and cushion ring, the rail only has an O-ring and is smooth aluminum. Use a little motor oil on the O-rings and the rail should go right on easy. My old injectors didn't come out of the intake when I removed the fuel rail. I didn't know aything about cleaning the egr port then so I'll have to take the fuel rail off again.I just bought some carb cleaner and new bungies I do have a 94' so I don't have to drill out plugs at least. Honda really screwed you Pre 94' guys. P.S. I got the injectors from injector warehouse for $105 slightly more than having my old ones cleaned. they came with all the O-rings and cushion seals were all tested and matched.(a good investment) Good Luck man.

holmesnmanny

Ghost never said anything about taking the injectors out of the rail. Period.

I don't really know where you got that from.

GhostAccord

lol yeah, I'm reading from the manual because I've never done this before.

Anywho, To each his own, I find it easier to put the injectors in the rail before I put it back on the vehicle.

By the way, the injector only has the lower O-ring if it is a F22B1 with the Fuel Injection Air Control system (FIA). IIRC only the 94-95 had the FIA. None of the other F22B1 or B2's use the lower injector O-rings. They only have the upper O-rings and the lower seals (cushions). At least that's what it shows in the manual. I really have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to the Accord or Honda's for that matter

Oh and by the way, Don't say that one persons way of doing things is WRONG when it works ether way. Personally I find it to be a pain in the A$$ doing it your way. But I'm not going to tell people that it's WRONG.

holmesnmanny

Who the hell is replacing injectors? All that's needed is to move it out of the way so that you can get to the egr plugs. Nobody said anything about replacing injectors. You must be posting in the wrong thread. When you take the three nuts off the top of the rail it lifts out of the intake. The top of the injectors never come apart. It's not needed.

Bad_dude

Thanks for trying to help guys. But from looking at the pics in this DIY, I see that only the fuel rail is coming off and the injectors stay on the intake block. Thus I would think only the upper o-rings are needed. Btw, I have a 1990 Accord LX 4AT. Though I would like to clean the injectors since it's been running for 146K miles. But not sure b/c I might damage them. What's the best way of cleaning them and how long would this take?

holmesnmanny,
How many time did you have to slide hammer to get the plug up? Also some one mention to raise your hood as high as you can to avoid hitting the hood when you sling the hammer up, but what can I use to do that other than the iron that is already part of the car?
If I want to thread the ports then use pipe plugs to close them, what size pipe plugs would I use? Anyone knows?

Thanks.

JoeBull

OK OK OK. Yes Ghost your right about the F22b1 which is what I have. It might be easier to get the injector rail assemly in the intake on an F22b2. I wouldn't know. Sorry to break *****. I just remember what it pain it was to put the assembly back in my intake. I wanted to put them in the intake first but followed the manual. I guess I'm more mad at myself, sorry. Bad Dude. If you take your injectors to shop to have them cleaned and tested it will cost almost as much as replacing them, plus if any are bad you'll be out even more dough. If you clean them yourself how will you test them? Oh and holmes I think you should work on your reading comprehension.

holmesnmanny

Nothing at all wrong with my reading comprehension. I wasn't the one suggesting he should take the injectors out of the rail for no reason at all.

holmesnmanny

When the rail slides off the injectors come with it, out of the intake manifold. They do not come off the rail. Period.

About four pops with the slide hammer up, and they pop out. You don't need to do anything with your using the slider hammer I originally said.

Use the honda dealer plugs. There is no reason to use anything else. When you put those in you can just use an extension from a 1/4 inch drive to push them in. Just put the end of the extension into the plug and gently line it up with the hole and use a hammer to gently tap them down. when you get about halfway, just move the extension to the side of the plug so that you get it even with the manifold. That's all you need to do. I gave clear instructions in that other thread. This really isn't that hard using the right tools. Just make sure you use the tools suggested.