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I have a 95 Accord EX wagon w/ 2.2L VTEC & automatic transmission. I am looking to possibly get a couple strut bars and/or tie bars. I was looking at a couple different ones on ebay an I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations or experience with the ones I was looking at.
Also I'm pretty sure the front braces should fit even though I have a wagon but does anyone know about compatibility between sedan and wagon rear braces?
I think it's pretty funny that you exclusively looked on eBay for "quality" strut bars and ended up with brands I've never heard of - ever.
Stick to known brands - Cusco makes both an AS and OS strut that's quality, the AS version is better (IMO) due to a more solid construction. You've also got:
The FFC bar has bends that are to me kind of suspect, in that its quite alot of cantilevered force over the chord of a curved piece of steel. Better would be what Explicit Speed used to do (when they were still doing things, any site without a phone number is figurehead only), the actual steel bars were straight, and you had very robust, angular brackets bolted to the strut towers.
At this point, for the 90's Accords, you are best off buying a Hobart 125, lots of 1/8" steel, and making your own bracing. Any strut tower bar with hinges in it it worthless. Think about it this way:
-When the car is cornering, you have the weight of the car wanting to continue, while the tires try and turn in. This produces a shear-force between the lower suspension points and the car's center of gravity. This causes the front of the car to want to parallelogram. A strut tower bar with hinges will allow that to happen. It will resist the tendency for the strut towers to want to buckle-in closer to each other under braking, but even then, any strut tower bar made from aluminium is garbage anyway, unless its so bulky that it looks silly.
The Ultra Racing bars honestly aren't terrible, in lieu of domestically made pieces they are at least steel and non-hinged, so they have that going for them. I'm going to buy a welder and make my own because I want to, but if that's more than you want to get into, they are your best bet. Their front-lower bar looks too bent to do any good though. That's one of those things you'd have to make to see any real benefit.
And I have no friggin' clue what the room bars are for. Chalk that one up to somebody doing something for a show car featured in import tuner several years ago and all the ricers doing it too.
Ultra Racing...Hell yeah, seriously, I can tell from the pictures this is a small company that was probably born in someones garage(the picture) and made by someone who knows what they are doing and is passionate about cars.
Here is my rundown:
Fit: 99% of all strut braces made that are on the market are going to fit on your car. It comes down mainly to the length of the brace rod being correct (some are even adjustable to pre-load) and the correct alignment of the strut mounting plates. The only other factor is the brace going to clear the hood, it definitely should. Usually you don't need to worry and even if it doesn't you can make a return, well hopefully.
Function: It's steel so you can't go wrong here. Your buying 90% function (physics and structural rigidity) and 10% piece of mind, really, your mind will be different driving a car with a strut brace, mainly due to you knowing its there though there is a science to it. Just think: You can take a corner knowing you have a strut brace and in doing so your grip on the wheel may or will be different. That might lead to you pressing on the gas a bit more or letting off to set the suspension and start oversteer. Its a wonderful topic but basically the mind is effected by the car and the car by the mind so there is a relationship there. As said by the other users, I wouldn't worry about the lowers really, I mean if you got the money for all four...why don't you just go for it?
Finish: This is up to your sense of what finish means to you, if your gonna be show people under the hood and you want to be sure your going to be comfortable doing so, etc.
Seller: What kind of payment do they accept? What is the shipping situation? What is the return and exchange policy? Do they have customer support? Do they have customer feedback you could read or post to? etc.
And oh yeah, the unibody of our cars are made from a reasonably thick gauge(excuse my lack of specific knowledge) steel and press formed into well engineered forms and spot welded in a special way in special areas, not to mention the almost 2mm thick steel subframes and multiple engine mounting points SO the body of the car is strong enough. The argument could be made that it would take nearly 200mph speeds, erratic terrible driving and like potholes to cause the body to weaken. This "weakening" is seen as not enough (like you need a brace) BUT actually, yet perfectly as it produces as it's driven. Technically a strut brace is counter productive unless your mind needs it and movement of the body is a good thing.
1. ultra racing is not mass produced. the ebay seller has limited numbers available
2. ultra racing seems to produce items no other suspension companies are making. fender bracing etc.
3. their prices look on par with the other suspension companies
4. strut tower bar comes standard on Acura Integras.
5. ebay seller lists items as : CD3/4/5/6. u have a CE1 dont be shocked it they dont fit, return refund issues
i look at it like 3 wheel motion (hydraulics) if u hit a pot hole ur car wont dip low into the hole because 3 wheels are solid and the tower bar is holding the 4th wheel up. u will lose some ride comfort since the suspension will be stiffer but cornering will be flat not boat-like
Thanks for everyone's input. I ordered just the ultra racing 3-point front upper strut bar for now since I hear that is the piece that makes the most difference. I'm hoping that I can make the wagon handle a little less like a boat. I'll take pics and let you know how well it works when it arrives. The vehicle compatibility chart shows that it fits a 5-door EX so I'm hoping it'll fit or that will support my claims for a refund if it doesn't.
For the 5th-generation Accords, the 4-cyl engine bays are all the same. I am interested in this too, to see what it looks like, and where it mounts to on the firewall. If it mounts to the firewall and not the wiper linkage channel then indeed it would be worth looking into when I make my own. (Bought a Hobart 140 today)
Your car is probably going to need some more rear-end rigidity to help rid it of that 'boaty' feeling. Good shocks and good springs (or good coilovers) will go a long way to helping that, sway bars too.
The FFC bar has bends that are to me kind of suspect, in that its quite alot of cantilevered force over the chord of a curved piece of steel. Better would be what Explicit Speed used to do (when they were still doing things, any site without a phone number is figurehead only), the actual steel bars were straight, and you had very robust, angular brackets bolted to the strut towers.
At this point, for the 90's Accords, you are best off buying a Hobart 125, lots of 1/8" steel, and making your own bracing. Any strut tower bar with hinges in it it worthless. Think about it this way:
-When the car is cornering, you have the weight of the car wanting to continue, while the tires try and turn in. This produces a shear-force between the lower suspension points and the car's center of gravity. This causes the front of the car to want to parallelogram. A strut tower bar with hinges will allow that to happen. It will resist the tendency for the strut towers to want to buckle-in closer to each other under braking, but even then, any strut tower bar made from aluminium is garbage anyway, unless its so bulky that it looks silly.
The Ultra Racing bars honestly aren't terrible, in lieu of domestically made pieces they are at least steel and non-hinged, so they have that going for them. I'm going to buy a welder and make my own because I want to, but if that's more than you want to get into, they are your best bet. Their front-lower bar looks too bent to do any good though. That's one of those things you'd have to make to see any real benefit.
And I have no friggin' clue what the room bars are for. Chalk that one up to somebody doing something for a show car featured in import tuner several years ago and all the ricers doing it too.
Did you seriously suggest someone buy a ******* welder and make their own strut bar for a mid-90's Honda?
Let's be real, the strut bar is going to do next to nothing for the car and is being purchased mostly for looks.
The FFC bar I recommended was because it's designed and built by enthusiasts over on HondaSociety - they're good guys. I'm really not sure what you see as suspect on it.
Did you seriously suggest someone buy a ******* welder and make their own strut bar for a mid-90's Honda?
Let's be real, the strut bar is going to do next to nothing for the car and is being purchased mostly for looks.
The FFC bar I recommended was because it's designed and built by enthusiasts over on HondaSociety - they're good guys. I'm really not sure what you see as suspect on it.
Dude, calm down.
Yes, I did actually suggest it. Because as I explained, the FFC bar uses curved tubes to clear the engine, and I feel that because you have compression force applied across the chord of a curve, you are building in a range of distortion of the bar, rather than if it were built with straight lines and well-designed brackets. The Explicit Speed bar (for the CB7 mind you) is built this way. There are lots of reputable companies that do, or did, from here and Japan, make a variety of chassis braces for these 90's Hondas. I'm not going to try and argue as I can't back-up my points with engineering and I suspect neither can you. But they're a thing in factory tuning packages. Mitsu offered them on the Evo 8, in the style that I suggested. They can't be total wastes of time.
And if he buys a welder and learns how to, how is that a bad thing? I mean, so long as he doesn't end-up in the 'worst fabrication' thread. And OP at least did ask for opinions first, meaning he recognized there was a difference in function. So if he is going to install a strut tower bar, lets at least give him the information he needs to procure a piece that will actually increase chassis rigidity, regardless the actual or perceived benefit.
The Gen 5 V6 also had a strut bar. And it had a heavy motor. That bar is not going to do anything until you get a full suspension and some road racing slicks on the front. But it does give you something to hold on to that is not hot when you are bending over the motor to check it out.
Yes, I did actually suggest it. Because as I explained, the FFC bar uses curved tubes to clear the engine, and I feel that because you have compression force applied across the chord of a curve, you are building in a range of distortion of the bar, rather than if it were built with straight lines and well-designed brackets. The Explicit Speed bar (for the CB7 mind you) is built this way. There are lots of reputable companies that do, or did, from here and Japan, make a variety of chassis braces for these 90's Hondas. I'm not going to try and argue as I can't back-up my points with engineering and I suspect neither can you. But they're a thing in factory tuning packages. Mitsu offered them on the Evo 8, in the style that I suggested. They can't be total wastes of time.
And if he buys a welder and learns how to, how is that a bad thing? I mean, so long as he doesn't end-up in the 'worst fabrication' thread. And OP at least did ask for opinions first, meaning he recognized there was a difference in function. So if he is going to install a strut tower bar, lets at least give him the information he needs to procure a piece that will actually increase chassis rigidity, regardless the actual or perceived benefit.
I'm not worked up, just found it hilarious you really suggested someone asking how to spend < $200 on a strut bar should purchase a welding machine, metal, and then fabricate their own. That's like suggesting someone get an accounting degree, then their CPA license all because they want to do their own taxes.
Strut bars absolutely serve a purpose and I'm not trying to discredit them - they're installed from the factory on a lot of cars (the ITR comes to mind immediately) The ITR also had a zillion other things though - the strut tower bars just being one of them:
Clearly though the ITR's strut bar was garbage because it was a three-piece construction and was aluminum. /s
Regarding the FFC bar, again, people are buying these bars 99% of looks. The performance difference of the FFC bar to any other bar is going to be negligible. It's a single piece construction, mounts to the firewall/wiper cowl area (few others do it) and is a good looking piece.
I did actually figure out what bar the Ultra Racing company ripped off though - the PasswordJDM bar.
I'm not worked up, just found it hilarious you really suggested someone asking how to spend < $200 on a strut bar should purchase a welding machine, metal, and then fabricate their own. That's like suggesting someone get an accounting degree, then their CPA license all because they want to do their own taxes.
Strut bars absolutely serve a purpose and I'm not trying to discredit them - they're installed from the factory on a lot of cars (the ITR comes to mind immediately) The ITR also had a zillion other things though - the strut tower bars just being one of them:
Clearly though the ITR's strut bar was garbage because it was a three-piece construction and was aluminum. /s
Regarding the FFC bar, again, people are buying these bars 99% of looks. The performance difference of the FFC bar to any other bar is going to be negligible. It's a single piece construction, mounts to the firewall/wiper cowl area (few others do it) and is a good looking piece.
I did actually figure out what bar the Ultra Racing company ripped off though - the PasswordJDM bar.
Well, perhaps its because of the ripoffs ecisting but last I checked passwordjdm had screw-all even king motorsports has a pittance for these cars.
I took another look at the FFC bar and the curve isn't as bad as I first thought, but compared to the ultra racing/password JDM unit, it still theoretically flexes more. Plus I think the one op ended up going with looks more..."Honda". The FFC bar looks more like it belongs on a Mazda. And its out of production anyway.
And your analogy doesn't hold water because one can still do taxes without a CPA degree, one cannot fuse metal without a welder.
Well, perhaps its because of the ripoffs ecisting but last I checked passwordjdm had screw-all even king motorsports has a pittance for these cars.
I took another look at the FFC bar and the curve isn't as bad as I first thought, but compared to the ultra racing/password JDM unit, it still theoretically flexes more. Plus I think the one op ended up going with looks more..."Honda". The FFC bar looks more like it belongs on a Mazda. And its out of production anyway.
And your analogy doesn't hold water because one can still do taxes without a CPA degree, one cannot fuse metal without a welder.
Ah, PWJDM doesn't make one for the Accord, but the style of the eBay one is very much PWJDM. I didn't mean that PWJDM actually made one for our vehicles.
The FFC bar is just out of stock, not out of production They also make a rear bar.
Regarding the analogy - my point was just that buying (and learning) a welder for a strut bar when you're looking at ~$100-200 products is overkill. We can use someone asking about what tires to buy and then you suggest someone gets a mounting machine to learn how to mount their own.
That seems a little strong a statement to make without specs from Honda, or measurements you have made, about the thickness of the metal. And once springs get stiffer, the forces on the weight-bearing areas of the car become stronger. I will wager money that for two identical cars, one having a few quality chassis braces and the other none, a driver could tell a difference during auto crossing.
The strut bar has arrived. Hopefully it looks better than the packaging.... It was wrapped in plastic wrap and bubble wrap so all is well. It included two bolts, two small washers, and two larger washers. No instructions were included.
First I removed the three strut nuts on each side. I also removed a brake line bracket bolt and vacuum hose bracket bolt on the driver's side to allow for some extra room for play.
This thing was a super tight fit. It took multiple attempts starting it on either side before I was successful. I ended up starting the passenger side and threading the nuts on only one turn. I then used a breaker bar to pry against the intake manifold just enough to thread on a couple nuts on the driver's side. I then tightened down each side a couple rotations at a time til they were both snug. I torqued them down to the the specified 28 ft/lbs. I replaced the two extra bolts I had removed on the driver's side to allow for extra play.
The rear bracket seems to bolt to the windshield wiper channel but only one hole is pre-made. As you can see there was a bracket for a couple vacuum lines using that hole and I was unable to find a way to secure them both there (it's a super tight fit). I had to use a breaker bar to pry the rear bracket up enough to thread in the bolt. I only secured the rear bracket with one of the supplied bolts for now. I then zip tied the rear vacuum hose bracket to the bar as a temporary solution. You can see that the zip tie holds the vacuum hose bracket above the intake manifold and keeps it from touching.
The bar so sit very close to one harness connector on the passenger's side as you see. It doesn't press hard against the wires but it does make contact. We'll see if it becomes an issue.
Final Product
The bar feels very solid and secure. I went for a quick spirited spin around the block and the front end stayed pretty darn flat. It was a little weird because it felt like the front was staying flat while the rear still felt like it was rolling. I guess I'll have to look into the rear braces because of all my extra wagon weight. I've never used any other strut bars so I have nothing to compare it to but I am very happy with it currently.
02-27-2015, 07:18 AM
95 Accord Wagon Strut Bar
They also make a rear bar.
