scubacamper

So I was given this 1993 Accord in a non-working condition.

It would not start - it would turn over, albeit very irregularly (almost as if it were missing a cylinder), but would not start.

The first thing I did was pull a spark plug boot up - there was so much oil in the plug well, it created a vacuum and slurping noise when I pulled the boot out. I thought, "well, this definitely has something to do with it not starting!"

After looking at the other 3 plugs, 3 of 4 plug wells had oil in them. So, I replaced all the valve cover gaskets (including the rocker arm seals), adjusted some of the valves that were a little off, put in new plugs, and new plug wires.

After several attempts, the car FINALLY started - I could tell it didn't like being started, I'm assuming because there was so much oil/gunk in system - (of which I cleaned as much as I could before removing the spark plug).

I ran it around the block and it was running like a champ - tons of pep and get-up.

Then...you guessed it, she started sputtering, giving almost no power, and when I touched the gas, she stalled.

I was able to get it started back up & limp it back to the driveway but I'm still experiencing problems.

I checked each spark plug wire and each one is giving spark. I'm wondering now it it could be a dizzy cap?

Anyone want to offer a suggestion?

Given the oil & gunk, should I run some seafoam through the system?

kevinhughes13

I wouldn't say the oil in spark plugs have any reason why its not running I had a 92 ACCORD flooded in fact swimming in oil! Car ran perfect with no misfires... Never a problem starting right up even though they may be flooded in oil its still a conductor. I would look elsewhere.

masospaghetti

Oil in plug wells seems to be really common for accords. Other than providing a leak path, it doesn't seem to affect the spark plug's operation.

Barring some major mechanical failure (which seems to be the case, since it ran well for a short period of time), you either have a spark problem or a fuel problem. A tune up is in order.

If you plan on keeping the car for awhile just do it, the problem may go away without any other diagnosis. Chances are that a tune-up is needed anyway and its all cheap.

Plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter. Try that first.

scubacamper

I think I'll pop off the distributor cap and have a look inside....I have a feeling it might have oil in there...

I was getting spark from each wire though...does that eliminate the dizzy as a problem?

scubacamper

I noticed tonight while I was reading my service manual in the car, there was this very subtle buzzing/humming sound that would come on for maybe 3-4 seconds and go back off. Then about 30 seconds later, it would come back on for 3-4 seconds and go back off. It just kept doing this over and over again.

I was prowling around the car like a dog with its ears perked, trying to figure out where the heck this sound was coming from. I then heard it louder when I was listening underneath the car, and it seemed like it was toward the fuel tank.

I went back inside the car, thinking it might have something to do with the fuel pump and listened to the back seat, and sure enough, the sound was the slightest bit louder back there.

Another thing: I noticed the battery has been dead and have been wondering if there was something draining the battery - well, I think this might be it...

The only reason I'm posting this here is I thought it might have something to do with the issue mentioned above.

Has anyone ever heard of this issue? Could it have something to do with the performance issue?

scubacamper

Plugs - check (albeit, autolite )
wires - check
cap - no visible damage, no leaks inside
rotor - appears okay
fuel filter - check
air filter - fine
distributor - took it off and took it apart - everything looks fine

Also:
Drained, flushed, re-filled, and burped the coolant
using carb/choke cleaner - removed & cleaned throttle body (new gasket upon replacement)
Opened & tightened Fast Idle valve (looks like it needs a good cleaning though)
visibly inspected all vacuum lines
new pcv valve
checked all soldering points on the main relay - looks okay
all injectors appear to be working properly (based on stethoscope usage)


After all that, the car DEFINITELY runs better, but now it has a slightly different problem:
When idling, it seems to stay at 1,500 RPM, even after being warmed up.
Also, if I tap on the gas pedal, the motor revs like it should but when it comes back down to idle, it dips below idle and then bounces back up to 1,500
When I put it in gear (R, D4, D3, D2, or D1), the motor REEEALLY sputters and almost dies.

What next?!

scubacamper

I've checked compression - all good on all cylinders both dry & wet (woohoo!)

Now I've ordered a new igniter, cap with gasket, rotor, and NGK plugs (instead of these el cheapo autolites)...also a new distributor mounting gasket...

I'll keep y'all posted

scubacamper

new rotor, new cap, new NGK plugs, new cap gasket and now the beast won't start. Just turns over and over and won't engage.

What's next?

scubacamper

tested fuel pressure - tested good.

Checked the ignition coil - failed resistance tests between A & C and between B & D....guess that'll be the next part to replace.

scubacamper

New coil - still no start. I'm about to shove a hammer through the block.

scubacamper

I think I'm the only one commenting on my own post.

Does anyone have any input?

I was reading that it might be a bad fuel pressure regulator - I tested the fuel pressure, albeit without having the car on, (since I can't get the car to start) and it seemed okay (about 50-55psi).

I'm tired of throwing money at this car, only to have it continue to not start. Does anyone have any ideas?

tim73

I didn't see where you replaced the spark plug tube seals? This will affect how it runs. But a valve cover kit, replace top and bottom. Aldo buy a dizzy base gasket oring(if it's leaking). Check inside dizzy for oil. Also get rid of the autolites. Buy some ngk or densos. Makes a difference. New spark plug wires...

scubacamper

Yep - tube seals were one of the first to be replaced (hence, rocker arm seals). Distributor mounting gasket also new
New distributor cap, rotor, gasket,new plugs (ngk now) new coil, new wires, new fuel filter, coolant flush, new battery, main relay and igniter test out okay, new pcv valve, fuel pressure and compression check out good...

I'm really only left with a handful of options...

AndyD

iTrader: (1)

Try this. Go to Walmart and pick up some starting fluid. Spray it into the throttle body, then try to start it. Be careful.It's highly flamable.

See if it starts.

Have you checked for any vacuum leaks?

Which NGK plugs are you using? Exact model number. What about the plug wires? Hondas can be pretty finicky when it comes to plugs.

How old is the gas? Have you filled it up with new gas at all?

scubacamper

1. I've tried carb/choke cleaner and it doesn't seem to want to start.
2. I have not yet checked for vacuum leaks - seems impossible at this point since the car isn't running. :/
3. NGK 2262 V-Power
4. Plug wires? Yeah, they're not the best but I didn't want to sink a whole lot of money into this car...
5. Age of the gas might be an issue - it's had about 1-2 gallons of fuel in the tank for about ... ohh ... maybe 1 month? But if this were an issue, wouldn't the engine run with carb cleaner?

Side note - when it cranks, most of the time it seems to have a very patterned, rhythmic crank. But then other times it seems off-rhythm. In addition, at one point I suspected the engine was flooded so I removed the plugs - only 1 of them seemed to be extra wet with fuel.

When the car was actually running, I used a stethoscope and heard each injector ticking.

tamboo

plug wires dont last forever you should at least test them.


i'm running $20 accel wires from ebay might splurge on denso for $30 next time.
ngk not worth the extra dough imho. check out that guys other vids he's pretty sharp.

scubacamper

? I guess you didn't read the whole thread - the plug wires are new - they're just not NGK or Honda...

BTW, NGK wires are only $33 from RockAuto

proman

2 major causes if an engine doesn't fire, fuel and spark.

1. Crank the engine and have someone smell the tailpipe see if fuel smell presents.

2. Take the spark plugs off, connect to the wire, have the plug touch the metal on the engine(basically short it out) and crank the engine. You should see sparks.

If both tests are good, then I would suspect if the timing shifted a tooth or so.

Of course there are other causes but not so common.

One more question, did you ever take the distributor off?

scubacamper

I did take off the distributor for inspection and to replace the igniter (which I actually put the old igniter back in because the "new" one appeared it was not working properly).

Before I removed the distributor, I very carefully and precisely marked common, meeting marks on the dizzy & mount and ensured the lines matched back up perfectly upon reinstallation.

Maybe I'll put that other igniter back in and try it again.


One thing that continues to puzzle me is the sparks continue to be mainly orange - slightly more whiter than before, but I was thinking that after replacing the coil and all the plug wires as well as the battery (which needed replacement anyway - it was 7 yrs old!), I would have had blue sparks by now...

About the tailpipe - when attempting to start with starting fluid, the expected smoke was billowing out of the tailpipe. I smelled back there and couldn't smell any unspent fuel.

Of note: The (new) plugs were black with chalky black residue, indicating richness...

scubacamper

Here is the car attempting to start with starting fluid:

Hear the somewhat irregular rhythm? Almost as if only some of the cylinders are firing... (?)

proman

Ok, now you have 3 possibilities. The first 2 are still fuel and sparks.

So, you need to troubleshoot one by one.

If you only smell starting fluid, not the fuel, then you need to make sure the fuel is injected into the cylinder.

Again, take off the the plugs, short it, and crank the engine. Do you get sparks?

The above 2 maybe the easiest ones to do.

Now, since you took off the distributor, there is another possibility. The distributor shaft has a key which goes into the camshaft. The key is not symmetric, there is a tiny difference if you observe closely. If the key is 180 degree off, you still can install the distributor, you will get fuel, you will get sparks, but the engine will never fire up. This is why I want you to confirm if you get fuel and sparks first. If you get both, then it's the key orientation.

Let me know.

scubacamper

I know I have spark.
I have fuel pressure at the banjo bolt. What I don't know is if the fuel is coming out the injectors.
When the car was running, I had audible ticking at each injector via stethoscope.
About the distributor: yes, I realize the "key" is not symmetrical - I was very careful and methodical installing the D and installed it without the cap, so I could easily rotate the spindle. I noted some slight resistance so I rotated the spindle to make sure it inserted smoothly, which it did (of course barring the slight resistance from the mounting ring (which was replaced, btw).

holmesnmanny

Something is wrong. You shouldn't be getting 50-55 lbs of fuel pressure. You might have a blockage of some sort. Can you hook up another fuel pressure gauge and make a vid of it.

Also you can't really test a main relay. It can test good but under any stress the joints could be bad. I have a feeling it's your issue.

scubacamper

It might be a few days but I'll post a vid of fuel pressure.
Just to make sure I'm performing the test properly, would you mind providing the steps?

holmesnmanny

Head to your nearest Harbor Freight. For $20 get their fuel pressure tester. Hook it up after adding some teflon tape to the fitting.

Attach it to the end fitting of the rail after removing the inner bolt. Turn ignition to on, immediately check for any leaks. Then note the pressure.

It should be somewhere in the 40's or even the late 30's.

You're supposed to also start the car and test while the engine is running to test for regulated fuel pressure but obviously you can't do that. Also, be sure that the fuel pressure holds fairly steady for a few minutes after turning off the ignition.