Jimmy21

I just bought this car last week. Its a 92 accord and the idle has been changing idle speeds. Not drastically but a little bit. Depending on load. Start it up and let it warm up and it would idle at 750. Turn the air conditioning on and it would drop to 700 and start shaking. Put it in reverse and it would either die, or drop to about 650 and shake very badly.

I was watching youtube videos and i:
*reseated down fast idle valve
*Sprayed carb cleaner in air holes of idle air control valve. Cleaned the gunk off the screen
*burped the cooling system of any air


Now the idle speed does not change, but it is at about 700 rpm all the time. But with the air conditioning on and in reverse it is still at 700 rpm but will shake enough to feel like something is wrong
anything i could try to get the idle speed up?



*edit, i forgot to mention, it runs perfect other than the low idle speed


edit. I think its fixed
I think I fixed the idle issue today and now I have a seperate issue. I think its idling fine but the motor mounts are bad and making it feel rough. How do I diagnose bad motor mounts? I don't even know what to look for. Also I read I should use oem ones as aftermarket ones are way too stiff. I cant find anyone that offers oem without going the junkyard route

jdmcertified909

these cars have a special motor mount that goes behind and under the intake manifold this motor mount had a vacuum line on it so that when you turn on the a/c it will soften it or harden it, it all depends on various things. also check your motor mounts they might be bad. but sounds more like bad motor mounts for the vibration part... to diagnose them you need an extra person you inside hit the brake and put parking brake and put the car in different gears r and d4 and vice versa if the engine jumps alot then its bad motor mounts. and for the idle part try a tune up. spark plugs. spark plug wires. cap. rotor. also check compression

ElCivic89

How did you fix the low idle?

jdmcertified909

check basics. looking for vacuum leaks. clean iacv. re-tighten the fitv. clean your throttle body and throttle body butterfly. if nothing worked then do a full tune up including. new spark plug wires. new spark plugs. new cap. new rotor new air filter. if that still didnt work then you could either have low compression or just motor is just junked up.

Jimmy21

Well maybe my issue isn't fixed. Today it was studdering at low speeds. Driving down the street at low speeds it would stutter every now and again. Then it died when trying to accelerate from a stop light. Im guessing I should start by changing the spark plugs?

I might add that I'm no mechanic. I'm mechanically inclined and know basically how cars and motors work but i don't have much experience

jdmcertified909

it could also be your fuel pump/fuel pressure regulator not sending enough pressure to the fuel rail. how long has it been since you did a fuel tune up including spark plugs. spark plug wires. cap. rotor and air filter?

Jimmy21

i just bought the car. The reason i bought it was it seemed pretty well maintained. I figured the idle problem would be an easy fix, i don't know exactly when everything was done. I just changed the spark plugs and wires. The spark plugs looked bran new. I haven't taken the the cap off, but it looks bran new. The air filter looks bran new.

What i did discover was a lot of oil in the spark plug holes. The actual business end of the spark plugs were perfectly clean but the backside, on the ceramic, where the wire plugs on to had some oil. One was pretty well drenched in oil. Im assuming that means the valve cover gasket is shot. Could this be linked to my problem?

After plugs and wires the cars idle still felt rough. It didn't want to die, but that was an intermittent issue, so im not sure.

jdmcertified909

thats your problem for idle and stutter you need to get the rocker arm spark plug tube seals and upper spark plug tube seals

jdmcertified909

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...lug+tube+seals

Jimmy21

Thanks a lot. I think ill take it somewhere. I dont want to touch the valves. I want to know they are done right

Jimmy21

Im just curious. Not questioning you because I'm pretty sure you know 10x more than me. What do you think is happening that would cause rough idle and intermittent stutters? I could see the oil making for poor spark. Is it because unmetered air could be getting to the valves? If that were the case wouldn't it run poor through the whole power band?

Also, they said it just had a timing belt put in. Shouldn't these seals have been changed then? Obviously they werent because they are leaking.

Would I be better off taking the car to a shop? I'm kind of nervous to tear in to the rockers. Would this be an easy job to screw up?

jdmcertified909

unmetered air? no this isn't a car with a mass air flow sensor, the oil in spark plug tubes causes a lot of trouble im having that problem right now i just dont have the money and time anymore. also the rough idle sorry i dont mean to scare you but it can be a leaking headgasket note that not all leaking head gaskets burn white smoke, also another thing could be that an injector is letting to much or to little fuel into one of the cylinders, another thing it could be is low compression, ive seen shops and other mechanics charge for a timing belt but never change any seals what so ever only the belt its self, as for the rocker arms if your not comfortable doing it then have a shop do it

Mishako129

Hi. Replacing your lower tube seals won't help your idle or performance, and most likely you just need to replace the upper tube seals and valve cover gasket to fix the oil leak. I talked to someone who specialized in Honda's and he said that very rarely do the lower tube seals go bad, better try the upper one's first before going into that operation of the lower one's. I was going to do the same thing but found out it was just the upper one's.
Start small and work your way up, don't "throw" expensive parts at it, or timely operations until you know for certain what is wrong.

Anyways, about your cars idle and performance, I got to tell you that my car did the same thing only to a worse degree. It wasn't the tune up items, it wasn't the motor mounts, and it wasn't an oil leak. After nearly a year with the same problem and after 100's of dollars in mechanic bills, I decided to rebuild the engine. To my surprise, after taking off the cylinder head (I had a new cylinder head on it 20,000 miles ago), I found that it had not one but two burnt exhaust valves. You might have a burnt exhaust valve as well, the only way to know for sure is to perform a leak down test, or to take the cylinder head off. A broken or burned valve will cause bad compression which is a cause of bad idle and performance. Do a compression check first if you don't have a air compressor for the leak down test, cylinder compression tools are very inexpensive.

I also had a loose timing belt, that can also cause a vibration.


My car would vibrate like crazy when I put it into gear (D4 or R), and the revs would go very low and then it would sometimes die at a stop. I was amazed at how it would still drive in that condition because it had only 20 and 30 psi compression in two of the cylinders (normal is like 160). I drove it around for a while even with it like that, asking every mechanic I saw what was wrong. Surprising thing is, none of them ever said, "You may have a bad valve".

Mishako129

What you can do right now and without having to get a compression tester is this:
With the car idling, go underneath the hood and take out each of the spark plug boots. You should notice a big change in performance, like its going to die. If you notice that there is no change in idle pitch or engine performance, then it means that something is wrong in that cylinder. This can be caused by lack of spark, fuel, or compression. You can buy things to check for spark, fuel, and compression. A "noid light" checks for fuel injection operation, and there is a special spark plug you can get to check for spark, and a compression tester for compression.

Jimmy21

i did check this and each cylinder had the same results. I think my next move is im going to adjust the valves and replace the upper tube seals. I think i'll be fine adjusting the valves myself. Taking the rockers completely off kind of scares me, but i think i should be able to adjust them just fine

94cd5c_me_go

it is not too hard to adjust them or take them off. just make sure to pay attention and not or tighten. they videos all day on YouTube just watch them.

Mishako129

You wanna replace the VC gasket if its bad and be sure to torque it down at the proper Inch pounds. Its very easy to break those studs off so don't overtorque them. Make sure the mating surfaces of the gaskets are dry of any oil.

Jimmy21

well i just seafoamed the car through the pcv valve. I didn't think it would solve anything, but i figured it couldn't hurt. I heard if you pour it too fast it can cause problems. So i poured it in VERY slowly. I feel like i poured it in so slowly that it may not have even cleaned anything. Anyway, what i did notice was that while i created the vacuum leak from the pcv valve, the idle was surging around up and back down. I noticed the motor, while the rpms were surging, rocking enough to be noticeable. Im not sure how much is normal but it looked like a lot to me for what was going on

Jimmy21

Well i just checked my valves and they all appear to be right on. The motor is still somewhat warm (i can hold my hand on block, but it isn't pleasant, Im going to recheck them in the morning before i install the valve cover, but i doubt anything is going to change much

Jimmy21

well, did the valves. They were all pretty close, but i went ahead and adjusted them all so they were perfect. Wasn't very hard, nothing really to be afraid of. I just tightened them to where the right size feeler gauge had a fair amount of resistance and the next size up would fit, but was extremely tight. I found a youtube video on doing the lower tube seals, and it didn't look difficult at all. I would have went ahead and did it, but i didn't have a 3/8 torque wrench on hand, only a 1/4.

My next move is to take the car to a mechanic and see what they have to say. Im getting pretty convinced that my rough idle is just bad motor mounds and the intermittent stutter is something else entirely. Im not expert though, so we'll see what a real mechanic has to say

Jimmy21

Took it to a shop today. They said the front motor mount is bad and causing the shaking. They said the other ones could be bad, but they couldn't tell. They said the front one DEFINITELY needs replaced.

They also said the transmission needs flushed and could be the reason for hesitation. I find that hard to believe. Im no mechanic, but how would dirty transmission fluid cause the car to stall?

nus_dogg

You can look at the front motor mount yourself and tell that it may need to be replaced as they're notorious for ripping/tearing. It's easy to install. Remove the front mount bracket off and unbolt the motor mount; there's three bolts holding it down onto the subframe.

I would check the fluid to see if they're oxidized, if so, just flush it. Not hard to do.

Jimmy21

Im wondering if i harmed my transmission. It didn't really have any problems. Shifts a little rough, but not that bad. I saw a video on youtube of how flush the ATF. Pulling the supply line and hooking a hose to it. Run the car while dumping ATF in.

I drained through the drain plug, and cleaned the magnet off (how much sludge should there be, ive never done this before)
refilled with 2.5 qts.
unhooked the supply line and hooked it to a drain
had my wife run the car for about 10 seconds at a time while dumping fluid in.
Check fluid level
run for 10 more seconds while dumping fluid in
check level


Ive heard flushing the transmission can be very bad. 1 train of thought is because it forces fluid the wrong was and makes things go the way they aren't meant to go. I didn't do that, so i should be fine in that department. The other thought is that it breaks all the contaminants free and they were all thats holding your tranny together. Thats what im worried about. I guess we'll see if my tranny takes a ****


Other thing, i used valvoline maxlife dex/merc instead of honda ATF. Should i drain that stuff back out?

jdmcertified909

ALL motor mounts are shot in my 90 accord havent changed then since i bought it 4 years ago and my accord doesnt have rough idle or anything of that sort

Jimmy21

the idle isn't rough. They said the motor runs perfect and its just shaking from a bad motor mount. Where should i buy a motor mount? I heard I want oem ones because aftermarket are way too stif, but oem ones from Honda are crazy expensive. Are there any aftermarket ones that are worth using? Or should I go with a good used one off ebay? I prefer not to use junkyard parts because they are just as old, maybe that's my only viable option though