Ksport or D2 coilovers
12-29-2005, 04:10 PM
#51
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question: why do i see ots koni yellow/gc setups on tons of amateur racecars, yet i've never seen ksport? surely if ksport "blows them out of the water," someone with more than a buttdyno would have figured this out.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.
12-29-2005, 04:58 PM
#52
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Re: (Mike C)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question: why do i see ots koni yellow/gc setups on tons of amateur racecars, yet i've never seen ksport? surely if ksport "blows them out of the water," someone with more than a buttdyno would have figured this out.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
People are afraid to try new things. Whether or not the new is better than the old, that isn't the the real question, since each product might have both advantages and disadvantages when compared to the other. The question is which one of the comparable products the amateur racer is going to spend his/her sparse budget on?
.</TD></TR></TABLE>
People are afraid to try new things. Whether or not the new is better than the old, that isn't the the real question, since each product might have both advantages and disadvantages when compared to the other. The question is which one of the comparable products the amateur racer is going to spend his/her sparse budget on?
12-29-2005, 06:06 PM
#54
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Re: (PIC Performance)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People are afraid to try new things. Whether or not the new is better than the old, that isn't the the real question, since each product might have both advantages and disadvantages when compared to the other. The question is which one of the comparable products the amateur racer is going to spend his/her sparse budget on? </TD></TR></TABLE>
and that is why one of these what i like to call "rebadging" companies needs to sponsor someone. if they have such a great product, give one away, and if the guy wins races, dyno charts check out decently, the product holds up, and service is good, they will be taken seriously. until then, i can take these new companies as nothing more than rebadgers with the same basic product.
and that is why one of these what i like to call "rebadging" companies needs to sponsor someone. if they have such a great product, give one away, and if the guy wins races, dyno charts check out decently, the product holds up, and service is good, they will be taken seriously. until then, i can take these new companies as nothing more than rebadgers with the same basic product.
12-29-2005, 06:15 PM
#55
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Re: (Mike C)
If only it were that simple. While that is more or less the route we have taken, the market is not exactly welcoming to new products. Its quite an uphill battle, breaking into this market with a new product and new name.
12-29-2005, 07:02 PM
#56
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Re: (Mike C)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question: why do i see ots koni yellow/gc setups on tons of amateur racecars, yet i've never seen ksport? surely if ksport "blows them out of the water," someone with more than a buttdyno would have figured this out.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For one GC and Koni have been around much longer. They have a huge edge in the market, and a very good reputation. I won't question that. I can't speak for Ksport, but I know Ksport sponsors a few road racers out there. I don't really look into that much, nor have I ever questioned the owner of Ksport about it.
All I know is that every customer I have provided Ksports to have never had problems nor have ever complained to me. Not everyone of my customers are also on honda-tech. I sell many setups to guys that race the H4 class who are on a limited budget, as well as many Turbo 4 Drag guys. Courtney Green who runs in the Sport FWD class is going to be my next Sport FWD customer. When I thought about offering Ksports it was just because I tested them on my car. I formed a good relationship with the owner, and tested my own setups. The owner works very well with me to provide any custom setup I want with no question. I have owned numorous coilovers, and if you knew me, you'd know I have tested many many parts. I am a picky guy, and I love to test parts on my own rather than having to rely on other opinions. ****, I think I have went through 3 ITR motors running different combinations, as well as probably 4 turbo manifolds in the past 2 years. I have dynoed the SC61, ITS61, and GT35e, just to see if the GT Technology really improved spool time and power. I also wanted to see if Innovative's turbine wheels would compete with Garretts GT Technology turbine wheels. The only reason I chose to offer Ksports is because of the affordability, and because of the fact I can have anything that I want made. I don't sell a lot of their standard stuff, I find some of the rates they offer are not the best. My intention was never to become Koni or GC. I just wanted to offer a product that I have tested personally to the members of honda-tech, and give them a opportunity to use a product that I am very happy to offer. I don't talk **** about other companies, nor do I question anyone on here. I know what I sell, and I just wanted to pass a good product to people. Also a lot of people on here praise Tein. ****, if you ever go to Japan Tein is considered what OmniPower is to us here in the states. I am not talking **** about Tein, but it's just fact. Tein is small compared to the other companies that rule the so called JDM market. But anyways, that is a different conversation. Maybe I will try to push more product into the road race market, get more feedback from the guys that use the product. The suspension thing is a side thing for us, I make bodykits and carbon fiber hoods. I just have a performance background and wanted to get back into it a lil you know. Carbon Fiber and Bodykits can get a lil boring sometimes haha.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
For one GC and Koni have been around much longer. They have a huge edge in the market, and a very good reputation. I won't question that. I can't speak for Ksport, but I know Ksport sponsors a few road racers out there. I don't really look into that much, nor have I ever questioned the owner of Ksport about it.
All I know is that every customer I have provided Ksports to have never had problems nor have ever complained to me. Not everyone of my customers are also on honda-tech. I sell many setups to guys that race the H4 class who are on a limited budget, as well as many Turbo 4 Drag guys. Courtney Green who runs in the Sport FWD class is going to be my next Sport FWD customer. When I thought about offering Ksports it was just because I tested them on my car. I formed a good relationship with the owner, and tested my own setups. The owner works very well with me to provide any custom setup I want with no question. I have owned numorous coilovers, and if you knew me, you'd know I have tested many many parts. I am a picky guy, and I love to test parts on my own rather than having to rely on other opinions. ****, I think I have went through 3 ITR motors running different combinations, as well as probably 4 turbo manifolds in the past 2 years. I have dynoed the SC61, ITS61, and GT35e, just to see if the GT Technology really improved spool time and power. I also wanted to see if Innovative's turbine wheels would compete with Garretts GT Technology turbine wheels. The only reason I chose to offer Ksports is because of the affordability, and because of the fact I can have anything that I want made. I don't sell a lot of their standard stuff, I find some of the rates they offer are not the best. My intention was never to become Koni or GC. I just wanted to offer a product that I have tested personally to the members of honda-tech, and give them a opportunity to use a product that I am very happy to offer. I don't talk **** about other companies, nor do I question anyone on here. I know what I sell, and I just wanted to pass a good product to people. Also a lot of people on here praise Tein. ****, if you ever go to Japan Tein is considered what OmniPower is to us here in the states. I am not talking **** about Tein, but it's just fact. Tein is small compared to the other companies that rule the so called JDM market. But anyways, that is a different conversation. Maybe I will try to push more product into the road race market, get more feedback from the guys that use the product. The suspension thing is a side thing for us, I make bodykits and carbon fiber hoods. I just have a performance background and wanted to get back into it a lil you know. Carbon Fiber and Bodykits can get a lil boring sometimes haha.
12-29-2005, 10:20 PM
#57
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Re: (BodyKits NW)
who cares I have the ksport with custom spring rates for my needs on my ek hatch and luv em' can't compare to a full body coil-over with a custom setup with parts that are made for eachother to work with eachother ...
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him
12-29-2005, 11:16 PM
#58
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Re: (stealth_EK4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealth_EK4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who cares I have the ksport with custom spring rates for my needs on my ek hatch and luv em' can't compare to a full body coil-over with a custom setup with parts that are made for eachother to work with eachother ...
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him </TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed andy does know his **** which i highly respect. he knew wut he was talking about, we talked about suspension theory for a good 15 min before i actually ordered my ****, he wanted to guarentee my satisfation even before i ordered. my ksports are nice, love the ride, soft is soft, and stiff is stiff, and im looking foward to the EDFC they mgiht come out with. i had my gc/yellows and by god i loved them too, but i personally like the ksports better, plus they are really affordable
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question: why do i see ots koni yellow/gc setups on tons of amateur racecars, yet i've never seen ksport? surely if ksport "blows them out of the water," someone with more than a buttdyno would have figured this out.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow dude stop being an ******* seriosuly, we are having a friendly debate and there is no need for attitude, if you want to say anything else, pm me
IMO
gc/yellow < Ksport
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him </TD></TR></TABLE>
agreed andy does know his **** which i highly respect. he knew wut he was talking about, we talked about suspension theory for a good 15 min before i actually ordered my ****, he wanted to guarentee my satisfation even before i ordered. my ksports are nice, love the ride, soft is soft, and stiff is stiff, and im looking foward to the EDFC they mgiht come out with. i had my gc/yellows and by god i loved them too, but i personally like the ksports better, plus they are really affordable
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mike C »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">question: why do i see ots koni yellow/gc setups on tons of amateur racecars, yet i've never seen ksport? surely if ksport "blows them out of the water," someone with more than a buttdyno would have figured this out.
don't blow this off as off topic. this is a suspension forum, a place to discuss suspension of all types. if a thread takes a particular turn, so be it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
wow dude stop being an ******* seriosuly, we are having a friendly debate and there is no need for attitude, if you want to say anything else, pm me
IMO
gc/yellow < Ksport
12-30-2005, 07:04 AM
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Re: (stealth_EK4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealth_EK4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">who cares I have the ksport with custom spring rates for my needs on my ek hatch and luv em' can't compare to a full body coil-over with a custom setup with parts that are made for eachother to work with eachother ...
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him </TD></TR></TABLE>
Can someone translate this comment into English? It sounds like the same thing Mr. Mmhmm stated, and I quoted earlier, but I'm not sure.
If it is the same, I'm really interested in hearing an objective opinion to back up this stance. Brand aside, why are folks drawn to this shallow opinion of "full body coil-overs are better since all the parts are made for each other."
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
I'm not asking these questions to start any sort of offensive arguement. I really want to know what the thought process is. Is this asking too much?
and andy does know what he's talking about i bought mine through him </TD></TR></TABLE>
Can someone translate this comment into English? It sounds like the same thing Mr. Mmhmm stated, and I quoted earlier, but I'm not sure.
If it is the same, I'm really interested in hearing an objective opinion to back up this stance. Brand aside, why are folks drawn to this shallow opinion of "full body coil-overs are better since all the parts are made for each other."
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
I'm not asking these questions to start any sort of offensive arguement. I really want to know what the thought process is. Is this asking too much?
12-30-2005, 08:21 AM
#60
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Re: (CelicaGTV6)
I'm not sure what they're talking about with the idea behind a full body coilover but let me say this. If you get stiff springs then get a wider sway bar to buffer the random rumbling that stiff springs can bring. How can you tell if your springs are stiff enough, go into a loop going on the highway doing 65mph and if your car lowers down onto your tires then they're not stiff enough. If you've seen and Acura go over and hill and the body of the car keeps bouncing up and down. The springs aren't stiff enough. The ideal set up (regardless of where you get it) will lock up the entire suspension. I say that meaning that it'll reinforce what you already have and keep it from moving. My ideal set up (what I'm trying to have in the next six months):
Tein RA's
JDM Anti Sway bar (for the front)
Comptech rear lower anti sway/strut assembly (there's another name but I forget)
Skunk2 lower control arms
New H-Brace under the motor
Skunk2 Camber kit
Three point upper strut bar
Roll cage
P.S. Tires matter too, Fuzion ZRi's are the best
Tein RA's
JDM Anti Sway bar (for the front)
Comptech rear lower anti sway/strut assembly (there's another name but I forget)
Skunk2 lower control arms
New H-Brace under the motor
Skunk2 Camber kit
Three point upper strut bar
Roll cage
P.S. Tires matter too, Fuzion ZRi's are the best
12-30-2005, 11:13 AM
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Re: (The_General)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_General »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not sure what they're talking about with the idea behind a full body coilover but let me say this. If you get stiff springs then get a wider sway bar to buffer the random rumbling that stiff springs can bring. How can you tell if your springs are stiff enough, go into a loop going on the highway doing 65mph and if your car lowers down onto your tires then they're not stiff enough. If you've seen and Acura go over and hill and the body of the car keeps bouncing up and down. The springs aren't stiff enough. The ideal set up (regardless of where you get it) will lock up the entire suspension. I say that meaning that it'll reinforce what you already have and keep it from moving. My ideal set up (what I'm trying to have in the next six months):
Tein RA's
JDM Anti Sway bar (for the front)
Comptech rear lower anti sway/strut assembly (there's another name but I forget)
Skunk2 lower control arms
New H-Brace under the motor
Skunk2 Camber kit
Three point upper strut bar
Roll cage
P.S. Tires matter too, Fuzion ZRi's are the best </TD></TR></TABLE>
...what does that mean? Wider sway bar to buffer?
Tein RA's
JDM Anti Sway bar (for the front)
Comptech rear lower anti sway/strut assembly (there's another name but I forget)
Skunk2 lower control arms
New H-Brace under the motor
Skunk2 Camber kit
Three point upper strut bar
Roll cage
P.S. Tires matter too, Fuzion ZRi's are the best
</TD></TR></TABLE>...what does that mean? Wider sway bar to buffer?
12-30-2005, 11:40 AM
#62
Member
Re: (CelicaGTV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CelicaGTV6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can someone translate this comment into English? It sounds like the same thing Mr. Mmhmm stated, and I quoted earlier, but I'm not sure.
If it is the same, I'm really interested in hearing an objective opinion to back up this stance. Brand aside, why are folks drawn to this shallow opinion of "full body coil-overs are better since all the parts are made for each other."
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
I'm not asking these questions to start any sort of offensive arguement. I really want to know what the thought process is. Is this asking too much?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i never did say i thoguht full bodied coilovers were better because parts were made for eachother. i didnt choose to get k sports because of the brand name. i already stated my argument a couple posts ^^^^^. how about YOU give me your opinion on why sleeveover/shock combo is better than full bodied coilovers. because i am intrigued by your remarks but you dont ever state your opinion.
If it is the same, I'm really interested in hearing an objective opinion to back up this stance. Brand aside, why are folks drawn to this shallow opinion of "full body coil-overs are better since all the parts are made for each other."
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
I'm not asking these questions to start any sort of offensive arguement. I really want to know what the thought process is. Is this asking too much?</TD></TR></TABLE>
i never did say i thoguht full bodied coilovers were better because parts were made for eachother. i didnt choose to get k sports because of the brand name. i already stated my argument a couple posts ^^^^^. how about YOU give me your opinion on why sleeveover/shock combo is better than full bodied coilovers. because i am intrigued by your remarks but you dont ever state your opinion.
12-30-2005, 11:50 AM
#63
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Re: (CelicaGTV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no the springs are black and the shocks are orange
How do you know the parts are made for each other? Because the colors match?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
no the springs are black and the shocks are orange
12-30-2005, 11:56 AM
#64
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Re: (stealth_EK4)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealth_EK4 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no the springs are black and the shocks are orange </TD></TR></TABLE>
HAHA yeah once i opened the box it was like looking at a masterpeice, definetely a great construted and durable product.
Ksport> gc/yellow IMHO
anyone care to discuss their point of view
</TD></TR></TABLE>HAHA yeah once i opened the box it was like looking at a masterpeice, definetely a great construted and durable product.
Ksport> gc/yellow IMHO
anyone care to discuss their point of view
12-30-2005, 12:14 PM
#65
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Re: (mmhmm)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmhmm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i never did say i thoguht full bodied coilovers were better because parts were made for eachother. i didnt choose to get k sports because of the brand name. i already stated my argument a couple posts ^^^^^. how about YOU give me your opinion on why sleeveover/shock combo is better than full bodied coilovers. because i am intrigued by your remarks but you dont ever state your opinion.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never said YOU claimed to make the statements I alluded to.
Now that you mention it, where did you make your statement about why you prefer a pre-built coilover? Is this it:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
because i said so. haha jk....dude your from Santa Barbara?! thats so rad im actually moving there for college in like 3 weeks, the 21st i think. ima be living in IV. its gonna be sick.</TD></TR></TABLE>
or was it this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i use to have gc-yellows on my old integra wne i was 16. now i drive a 96 accord jsut like Andy here ^^^^^^^^^ with k sports. maybe its cause he gave me custom spring rates oppose to the gc-yellow set-up i had on my old itnegra with the spring rates they already gave me. my accord drives/handles/and steers better than my integra with koni/gc combo. my 2 cents. this is a thread abotu d2s vs ksport, not sleeveover/strut vs. Full bodied coilovers. i apologize if i steered away frmo the main subject, if i did. </TD></TR></TABLE>
If that’s it, then let me try to understand what you are saying. Your Ksport vendor gave you “custom” springs somehow unlike the custom spring options from Ground Control? In addition, you proclaim that your Accord handles better than your Integra primarly due to these pre-built coilover kits? Ergo, your Accord would handle as poorly as your Integra if you had instead installed the suggested GC/Koni setup.
Is this close?
Then again, maybe this is your line of reasoning for picking a pre-assembled coil over shock kit:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> HAHA yeah once i opened the box it was like looking at a masterpeice, definetely a great construted and durable product.
Ksport> gc/yellow IMHO</TD></TR></TABLE>
I’m honestly not trying to pick a fight. I’m just trying to understand the logic. Is it the ease of installation? Is it the look?
Good luck with school.
Adrian
i never did say i thoguht full bodied coilovers were better because parts were made for eachother. i didnt choose to get k sports because of the brand name. i already stated my argument a couple posts ^^^^^. how about YOU give me your opinion on why sleeveover/shock combo is better than full bodied coilovers. because i am intrigued by your remarks but you dont ever state your opinion.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I never said YOU claimed to make the statements I alluded to.
Now that you mention it, where did you make your statement about why you prefer a pre-built coilover? Is this it:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
because i said so. haha jk....dude your from Santa Barbara?! thats so rad im actually moving there for college in like 3 weeks, the 21st i think. ima be living in IV. its gonna be sick.</TD></TR></TABLE>
or was it this:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i use to have gc-yellows on my old integra wne i was 16. now i drive a 96 accord jsut like Andy here ^^^^^^^^^ with k sports. maybe its cause he gave me custom spring rates oppose to the gc-yellow set-up i had on my old itnegra with the spring rates they already gave me. my accord drives/handles/and steers better than my integra with koni/gc combo. my 2 cents. this is a thread abotu d2s vs ksport, not sleeveover/strut vs. Full bodied coilovers. i apologize if i steered away frmo the main subject, if i did. </TD></TR></TABLE>
If that’s it, then let me try to understand what you are saying. Your Ksport vendor gave you “custom” springs somehow unlike the custom spring options from Ground Control? In addition, you proclaim that your Accord handles better than your Integra primarly due to these pre-built coilover kits? Ergo, your Accord would handle as poorly as your Integra if you had instead installed the suggested GC/Koni setup.
Is this close?
Then again, maybe this is your line of reasoning for picking a pre-assembled coil over shock kit:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> HAHA yeah once i opened the box it was like looking at a masterpeice, definetely a great construted and durable product.
Ksport> gc/yellow IMHO</TD></TR></TABLE>
I’m honestly not trying to pick a fight. I’m just trying to understand the logic. Is it the ease of installation? Is it the look?
Good luck with school.
Adrian
12-30-2005, 01:27 PM
#66
Member
Re: (CelicaGTV6)
uh.....haha
i am overall satisfied with my ksport, handles better and drives better then my old integra. Im just more satisfied with my k sports than my gc/yellow combo. MAYBE its because i wasent happy with the gc spring rates, who knows, how about you give us your input on why you wouldnt pick a prebuilt coilover. please. and yeah SB is gonna be sick.
i am overall satisfied with my ksport, handles better and drives better then my old integra. Im just more satisfied with my k sports than my gc/yellow combo. MAYBE its because i wasent happy with the gc spring rates, who knows, how about you give us your input on why you wouldnt pick a prebuilt coilover. please. and yeah SB is gonna be sick.
12-30-2005, 04:17 PM
#67
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Re: (mmhmm)
Yes, you hit the nail on the head:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmhmm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Im just more satisfied with my k sports than my gc/yellow combo. MAYBE its because i wasent happy with the gc spring rates, who knows</TD></TR></TABLE>
One is not better than the other due to something inherent in the coilover / sleeve + damper design. In other words, a coilover isn't going to be better than a sleeve + shock setup simply because its a coilover, and vice versa.
Both will benefit from the proper valving, spring rates, construction, and quality of components used. To say that "I like coilovers because they are coilovers" (basically) is silly, of course.
Here's a tip: If someone isn't providing sufficient reason why they like/don't like such-and-such product, don't pay any attention to what they say. Chances are
1. They are just trying to stir up trouble, or
2. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mmhmm »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Im just more satisfied with my k sports than my gc/yellow combo. MAYBE its because i wasent happy with the gc spring rates, who knows</TD></TR></TABLE>
One is not better than the other due to something inherent in the coilover / sleeve + damper design. In other words, a coilover isn't going to be better than a sleeve + shock setup simply because its a coilover, and vice versa.
Both will benefit from the proper valving, spring rates, construction, and quality of components used. To say that "I like coilovers because they are coilovers" (basically) is silly, of course.
Here's a tip: If someone isn't providing sufficient reason why they like/don't like such-and-such product, don't pay any attention to what they say. Chances are
1. They are just trying to stir up trouble, or
2. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.
12-30-2005, 04:26 PM
#68
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Re: (CelicaGTV6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CelicaGTV6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...what does that mean? Wider sway bar to buffer? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly my man, think about it. If you've ever removed an anti sway bar the space there is like putting an ink pen inside of a cup. Now, stiffer spring put more pressure on these areas inside of turns. So if you get a thicker anti sway bar the space doesn't have as much room to "bang around" in there. It's hard to exlpain.
Better example, like putting a loose headlock on someone and running around in circles. Their head will bobble around in your arm. It would be uncomfortable for the both of you. Now a tighter grip and narrowing the headlock would secure the hold. You would have more control over the person and it would be easier for you to manuever (sp).
So the springs tension would be relieved in a way, get it?
...what does that mean? Wider sway bar to buffer? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Exactly my man, think about it. If you've ever removed an anti sway bar the space there is like putting an ink pen inside of a cup. Now, stiffer spring put more pressure on these areas inside of turns. So if you get a thicker anti sway bar the space doesn't have as much room to "bang around" in there. It's hard to exlpain.
Better example, like putting a loose headlock on someone and running around in circles. Their head will bobble around in your arm. It would be uncomfortable for the both of you. Now a tighter grip and narrowing the headlock would secure the hold. You would have more control over the person and it would be easier for you to manuever (sp).
So the springs tension would be relieved in a way, get it?
12-30-2005, 04:39 PM
#69
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Re: (The_General)
What areas are you talking about, exactly?
A swaybar's purpose is to equalize load on the two corners. With a swaybar, load is more equally distributed to each side during lateral load transfer. Without the swaybar, the outside will be more heavily loaded than the inside, and the car will "roll" towards the outside.
Nothing is banging around in the process.
I have yet to hear of anyone "compensating" for stiffer spring rates by going with a stiffer swaybar as well. A stiffer swaybar will only compliment the effect of stiffer springs (on the same end), which is oversteer.
A car that oscillates uncontrollably over bumps and disturbances in the road suffers from underdamping, or too-soft spring rates.
A swaybar's purpose is to equalize load on the two corners. With a swaybar, load is more equally distributed to each side during lateral load transfer. Without the swaybar, the outside will be more heavily loaded than the inside, and the car will "roll" towards the outside.
Nothing is banging around in the process.
I have yet to hear of anyone "compensating" for stiffer spring rates by going with a stiffer swaybar as well. A stiffer swaybar will only compliment the effect of stiffer springs (on the same end), which is oversteer.
A car that oscillates uncontrollably over bumps and disturbances in the road suffers from underdamping, or too-soft spring rates.
12-30-2005, 05:39 PM
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Re: (The_General)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by The_General »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Exactly my man, think about it. If you've ever removed an anti sway bar the space there is like putting an ink pen inside of a cup. Now, stiffer spring put more pressure on these areas inside of turns. So if you get a thicker anti sway bar the space doesn't have as much room to "bang around" in there. It's hard to exlpain.
Better example, like putting a loose headlock on someone and running around in circles. Their head will bobble around in your arm. It would be uncomfortable for the both of you. Now a tighter grip and narrowing the headlock would secure the hold. You would have more control over the person and it would be easier for you to manuever (sp).
So the springs tension would be relieved in a way, get it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
????
Dude, are you stoned? That makes absolutely no sense.
Exactly my man, think about it. If you've ever removed an anti sway bar the space there is like putting an ink pen inside of a cup. Now, stiffer spring put more pressure on these areas inside of turns. So if you get a thicker anti sway bar the space doesn't have as much room to "bang around" in there. It's hard to exlpain.
Better example, like putting a loose headlock on someone and running around in circles. Their head will bobble around in your arm. It would be uncomfortable for the both of you. Now a tighter grip and narrowing the headlock would secure the hold. You would have more control over the person and it would be easier for you to manuever (sp).
So the springs tension would be relieved in a way, get it?</TD></TR></TABLE>
????
Dude, are you stoned? That makes absolutely no sense.
12-30-2005, 08:56 PM
#71
Member
Re: (PIC Performance)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PIC Performance »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yes, you hit the nail on the head:
One is not better than the other due to something inherent in the coilover / sleeve + damper design. In other words, a coilover isn't going to be better than a sleeve + shock setup simply because its a coilover, and vice versa.
Both will benefit from the proper valving, spring rates, construction, and quality of components used. To say that "I like coilovers because they are coilovers" (basically) is silly, of course.
Here's a tip: If someone isn't providing sufficient reason why they like/don't like such-and-such product, don't pay any attention to what they say. Chances are
1. They are just trying to stir up trouble, or
2. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you got my f*cked up bro. i never said i would pick a prebuilt coilover over a sleeveover/shock combo just because its a prebuilt coilover. i aint stirring up trouble nor am i not talking out of my ***, ive written it many times IMHO (in my honest opinion) i like the ride quality, constrution, look, dampening adjustment, etc....of ksports over my old gc/yellow set-up. if you want me to back it up ill say it again for the sake of us having a friendly debate, ive ridden on both with seperate cars with different spring rates, i overall felt a better ride quality and many other things in ksports than the gc/yellow set-up i was riding on.
One is not better than the other due to something inherent in the coilover / sleeve + damper design. In other words, a coilover isn't going to be better than a sleeve + shock setup simply because its a coilover, and vice versa.
Both will benefit from the proper valving, spring rates, construction, and quality of components used. To say that "I like coilovers because they are coilovers" (basically) is silly, of course.
Here's a tip: If someone isn't providing sufficient reason why they like/don't like such-and-such product, don't pay any attention to what they say. Chances are
1. They are just trying to stir up trouble, or
2. They simply have no idea what they are talking about.</TD></TR></TABLE>
you got my f*cked up bro. i never said i would pick a prebuilt coilover over a sleeveover/shock combo just because its a prebuilt coilover. i aint stirring up trouble nor am i not talking out of my ***, ive written it many times IMHO (in my honest opinion) i like the ride quality, constrution, look, dampening adjustment, etc....of ksports over my old gc/yellow set-up. if you want me to back it up ill say it again for the sake of us having a friendly debate, ive ridden on both with seperate cars with different spring rates, i overall felt a better ride quality and many other things in ksports than the gc/yellow set-up i was riding on.
12-30-2005, 09:23 PM
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Re: (mmhmm)
Can you give exact reasons why you like your Ksports over your GC/Koni's? Do you know your spring rates for both? what tires were on both cars?
Or does it just exactly point to the Ksports being that much better? Im very intrigued by this. please give a pro/con on both setups to get your point across
Or does it just exactly point to the Ksports being that much better? Im very intrigued by this. please give a pro/con on both setups to get your point across
12-30-2005, 10:31 PM
#74
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no short stroke no care...
and you cannot compare performance in two different cars. that is like saying AEM intake sucks because on my car it only added 1hp when the injen on my other car added 15hp.
and you cannot compare performance in two different cars. that is like saying AEM intake sucks because on my car it only added 1hp when the injen on my other car added 15hp.
12-30-2005, 11:27 PM
#75
Member
Re: (visi0n)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by visi0n »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">no short stroke no care...
and you cannot compare performance in two different cars. that is like saying AEM intake sucks because on my car it only added 1hp when the injen on my other car added 15hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Riake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you give exact reasons why you like your Ksports over your GC/Koni's? Do you know your spring rates for both? what tires were on both cars?
Or does it just exactly point to the Ksports being that much better? Im very intrigued by this. please give a pro/con on both setups to get your point across </TD></TR></TABLE>
i think its funny you guys are getting worked up and how much you guys are taking this **** seriosuly. this **** isnt my life like it probably is yours. chill out, my opinions are my own opinions, i had gc/yellows and ksports, and i like the k sports better, i dont need to f*cking explain **** wen i did like 5 times. for the 3rd time, HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS GIVING ME YOUR OPINIONS ON WHY SPRING/SHOCK COMBO IS BETTER THAN FULL BODIED COILOVERS. i got ksports and i love em better than gc/yellow, haha. if you wanna say anythnig to me PM ME.
and you cannot compare performance in two different cars. that is like saying AEM intake sucks because on my car it only added 1hp when the injen on my other car added 15hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Riake »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can you give exact reasons why you like your Ksports over your GC/Koni's? Do you know your spring rates for both? what tires were on both cars?
Or does it just exactly point to the Ksports being that much better? Im very intrigued by this. please give a pro/con on both setups to get your point across </TD></TR></TABLE>
i think its funny you guys are getting worked up and how much you guys are taking this **** seriosuly. this **** isnt my life like it probably is yours. chill out, my opinions are my own opinions, i had gc/yellows and ksports, and i like the k sports better, i dont need to f*cking explain **** wen i did like 5 times. for the 3rd time, HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS GIVING ME YOUR OPINIONS ON WHY SPRING/SHOCK COMBO IS BETTER THAN FULL BODIED COILOVERS. i got ksports and i love em better than gc/yellow, haha. if you wanna say anythnig to me PM ME.