nonsense

I'm looking to purchase some Ground Control coilovers for my Civic, but I'm having a difficult time deciding on spring rates. First let me list my car, mods, intended use, etc:

1999 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Koni Sport shocks
no anti-sway bars (front or rear)
currently running Eibach ProKit springs

I mostly use this car for daily driving, but also attens HPDE's and open track days. What I'm looking to get out of my suspension is some level of comfort in driving, while having a nice setup for the track. Currently it's just too soft for the track.

I have asked quite a few people about what spring rates I should be running (as well as searched here on H-T) and I'm getting more mixed answers than I thought I would. Some people advise me to run higher rate spring in the rear and some the opposite. I've heard everything from 400lbs front/450lbs rear, to 350lbs front/300lbs rear.

Now from what I've read and what I've experienced with the Koni's is that there is a lot of handling adjustment in them. So I would imagine that I wouldn't need as high of a rear rate as I would if I had non adjustable shocks. So what do you guys think? What's a good front/rear rate that isn't too high, but will compliment the Konis and handle nicely at the track?? I'd like to hear from people that have a similar setup (EK coupe, konis, no sways, GC's).

Lastly, I plan on adding a rear sway bar last. If I had a higher budget I'd be adding it now (comptech or ASR).

Thanks,
Steve

Tyson

i say stay low. 300/450 max. a lot of ppl are going to say 400/600 or more. thats what ppl recommend for competition spring rates. you dont need competition spring rates. and get a rear sway.

nonsense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i say stay low. 300/450 max. a lot of ppl are going to say 400/600 or more. thats what ppl recommend for competition spring rates. you dont need competition spring rates. and get a rear sway.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what does the wise man say "with every answer there are more questions" or something like that.

I notice that some people say that the front-to-rear rate difference should be rather low (50-100 lb difference), and some people like a larger range, like you're suggestion. Anyone want to comment on that? Is there a point where there's too much difference, and on the flipside, too little? I know there are even people who run even front to rear rates.

Tyson

actually, the larger the rear spring rate, almost regardless of your front spring rate, the more your car is going to bounce. just because the center of gravity on a fwd car is up front, so its the longer moment distance to the rear.

so staying low in the rear is better for a more controlled (less bounce) ride. but having more in the rear, just makes your car easier to get loose. trade offs...

i was acutally hesitant to even suggest 450 i nthe rear. its what ive run on the street. it was ok. did perfectly fine on the track, so its its very capable. perhaps not best for the street. so you can keep it low, like 300/250 if you want.

slammed_93_hatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyson &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i say stay low. 300/450 max..</TD></TR></TABLE>

300 is lower then the GC OTS front spirngs. I rain 380 (gc ots integra springs) up front and 450 in the rear, with a comptech sway i liked it, and it was defently do able daily driving. Cadicalic do able? **** no. Stock comfertable? heck know. was it to able? defently.


I also have a fixed back bucket seat, and made many 4+ hour trips

Tyson

yeah, i happen to think even OTS rates GC gives are too stiff for reasonable street use.

Tad

I would recommend rates to match the weight of your car at each end
to start off with, then tune from there based on how you want the car to respond!

the rear is kind of up in the air,
you can run very soft rates, and have a comfy ride,
but then you might have understeer issues(which could be resolved with a swaybar)
or stiffer for firmer ride, and a car that's easier to rotate.

for the front, IMO, seeing as most peoples cars are going to be dropped alot
nowadays. I recommend at least 400lbs, I'm running 450lb and any lower produced
bad bottoming out.
And you can run more rate in the front before your butt will start to complain.

hope thats somewhat helpful.

Targa250R

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you can run very soft rates, and have a comfy ride,
but then you might have understeer issues(which could be resolved with a swaybar)</TD></TR></TABLE>
This is not really a great idea. Subframe tear-out is a real issue. I wouldn't recommend running a gigantic sway bar back there without having competition-level spring rates.

I do see some rear sways coming with beefy reinforcement pieces for the subframe nowadays though . . . a kit like that would be a good investment.

Tad

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Targa250R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is not really a great idea. Subframe tear-out is a real issue. I wouldn't recommend running a gigantic sway bar back there without having competition-level spring rates.

I do see some rear sways coming with beefy reinforcement pieces for the subframe nowadays though . . . a kit like that would be a good investment.</TD></TR></TABLE>

true,
but as you mentioned, there are quite a few good options
for a safe fat rear bar.
ST speedtech bar (22mm with a nice reinforceing tiebar)
comptech bar (ditto)
ASR bar (22mm ITR bar with a crazy tough reinforceing tiebar).
SRR bar(19mm pretty good tiebar)
TCS bar(19mm similar to the srr setup)

nonsense

see what I mean about the confusion? Everyone has a different answer and they all sound like the right one.

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "I would recommend rates to match the weight of your car at each end" are you talking about front to rear weight ratio? So say for instance I have 65% front and 45% rear I'd get 400lb fronts and 320lbs rear (20% difference in rate)?? Or am I now totally confused? hahahaha

Tad

basically I just wanted to get acrosss this point.
don't put on springs that are too soft to handle the weight of your car.

aside from that, it's really up to you what to do,
it all depends on what you want, and how you want your car to handle/feel really.

There isn't really any right answer.

Tyson

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
don't put on springs that are too soft to handle the weight of your car.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

can you try to expound upon that again? just to clarify...

nonsense

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tad &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There isn't really any right answer.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ahh my brain can't compute that. There has to be an answer. A black and white, calculated answer! hahaha if you knew me and the way my brain works (or malfunctions) you'd know how such problems cause me undue stress. I like to be able to calculate something and go with it. Damn, I always read into these things way too deeply.

Anyway, you guys have helped me quite a bit. I'm still not 100% sure what I'll go with, but now I at least have some idea of where to start. The best thing is that nothing's perminent with GC's. I can always sell my springs here and buy some other replacements if I don't like them.

I'm also going to call GC to get their take on it too.

Solo2EG

My car's an EG sedan with no swaybars and I'm really happy with the 400fr, 500rr combo on my Koni Yellow / GC's. Springs are cheap right? If you're really unsure I'd order 400fr and a set of 500's and 350's for the rear, that way you can try both ways and maybe make the car more comfortable in the off season too.

nonsense

OK, I think I've decided on 400 front and 350 rear. If I want more I'll swap the 400 to the rear and buy some 450 for the front.

Good idea?

slammed_93_hatch

sure. I know your on the NASA site also, im not sure were you are located, but i will be at the crossover, and you can ride in my car if you'd like. also ill be doing all nasa events but wont make the first one (feb 18th at T hill)

nonsense

I'm in SoCal. I'll be doing the 1st Willow Springs HPDE (Feb 12th) and possibly the crossover too. If I go I'll look you up.

Thanks for the help guys.