aw614

Car: 2000 Integra LS with ITR rear sway bar and hardrace lower front control arms with stock suspension.

I recently had a my clutch replaced and the alignment was pulling to the left after it was replaced, at the same time a few days later I decided to replace my front lower control arms with ones from hardrace with the bushings already pressed in and then get the alignment at the same time.

Today I went to get an alignment at the dealership and the front end is aligned to spec, however the rear they couldn't get the alignment set. However, even after a test drive I am still getting pulling to the left.

This was my alignment print out.


Any ideas why my alignment would still be pulling to the left. I had a feeling my alignment was off before due to the worn out control bushings, they were really cracked and ride quality suffered under braking and rough roads. After autocrosses on the old bushings it was quite unstable under quick braking and usually it felt like my integra wouldn't maintain an alignment after an autox.

I replaced the whole front lower arm with these:


I am going to check tomorrow if something was wrong with the install, I dont think I installed the control arms on the wrong side, but if I did, would that impact pulling to the left? Also, I had a really hard time tightening the bolt to the control arm and the driver side shock fork. I have a feeling the bolt might be cross threaded in or not tight enough. Maybe this might be a factor?

Outside of the slight pull to the left, my integra drives a lot better with the new bushings and the alignment, steering feel is better too. I have directional tires, I'll temporarily switch the fronts side to side to see what happens, but these tires are less than a year old with less than 4k miles on them

yungmulacrx

I always thought you wanted .5° more of caster on the right side cause of road crown or something.. Not positive on that though..

theEGGmonsta

if you get adjustable toe links the rear will be solved, maybe tires can be an issue of the pulling to one side?

viper_boy403

iTrader: (1)

First, check tire pressure. Second, swap the tires front to rear if they're directional. If it still pulls, the most likely cause is your front camber. The tires are essentially leaning like this \----\ which can cause a pull.


I usually set -.1 to -.4* cross caster on cars (more on trucks), but in this case it would just make his pull even worse. Hondas dont seem to be very caster sensitive though when it comes to pulling one way or the other

I would never set an alignment with toe out in the rear, that's going to make it prone to oversteer. Toe out in the front will generally make the car feel looser at freeway speeds and can cause it to wander a bit as well. There is no reason they shouldnt have been able to set rear toe better, it's not difficult

yungmulacrx

Maybe this will help a little.. This is the alignment on my car and it drives straight.. But it could be the roads you drive on.. Drive it some more and see if its like that on all roads..

yungmulacrx

Didnt notice the camber issue bet that is the issue.. I thought they were both negative.. Good eye..

GagnarTheUnruly

iTrader: (3)

Looks like you get a free alignment. Remind the dealer that the settings don't just need to be within spec -- they also need to be correct.

aw614

Thanks all for the responses.
I'll check the tire pressures tomorrow and take the car to get the tires rotated and balanced and see from there. I was wondering about the positive camber on the left side when I was looking at the sheet. But I thought camber couldn't be adjusted on stock suspension? Just wondering how is it done? Sorry I am still a bit new to Honda front suspension whereas with my VW's it involved a subframe shift to match the camber.

Yeah I ended up driving a ton of roads, the roads that that usually lean to the right on surfaces I was actually pulling straight, but for the most part majority of the roads driving today from interstate to downtown to my neighborhood, it was a pull to the left.

Yeah thinking of taking it back, I was being told they wanted to look at the front suspension components to see why the alignment was off. Of course I think other components need a refresh, but I had it driving straight prior to last week.

non-VTEC

the rear toe wont have that "much" affect on the pulling. only tire wear. it's the difference in front camber that is causing you pulling to the left.

you must have something worn/bent in the front suspension.

front camber specs should not be more than .5deg out from each other.

aw614

Would subframe shifting towards one side cause the leaning? I remember reading on my VW's people having to shift the subframe or put rigid collar bushings to prevent the subframe from shifting.

I didn't drive my integra today and will be taking a look at it more after work today.

Tyson

It's odd to have your front left camber be positive.

And your rear toe is still bad and driving it off.

non-VTEC

hmmm....i think the front subframe has locating pins and can't be moved/shifted. even if there is some slight movement in the bolt holes its so slight that it wouldn't account for that much movement.

if those lower control arms are correct for the car you might have a bent knuckle/upper control arm as long as ALL other bushings are not worn/damaged. any history of the car having any accidents that you know of?

camber and caster is not adjustable on stock honda suspension without aftermarket adjustable parts.

aw614

I ended up getting my tires rotated. And it is slightly better, but it still pulls to the left, it is more of a drift though. I double checked the control arms and they were installed on the correct sides. I didn't get a chance to unbolt the shock fork on the drivers side and put it on again, that is on my to do list.
From the carfax report, there was an accident back in 2006 with the original owner, it said left front impact that it hit another vehicle. However I do not know the extent of the damage outside of the airbags did not deploy. However I've drive my 1997 Integra with 240k+ miles and the steering "feels" better, not sure why it does either, but it feels more precise and studders less prior to my front LCA change. Even now, with the new front LCA's, rotors and pads it brakes better, but the 97 still feels a lot softer and smoother.

Prior to my clutch replacement last week, I wasn't having any pulling to the left and was driving straight on most roads. I wonder if something was done during the clutch install to drastically change the alignment? Because between the days I had the clutch installed and before I did my control arms, I was still pulling to the left. Steering was looser too, but it is better now.

The last alignment sheet I had was last year around the same time . Sorry about the other half of the sheet not being readable, I had a family member take the car for me to get the alignment and that was how I received the sheet. But from the numbers, the left side is different from what I am at currently.


About the subframe shifting, I was reading threads like this one and a few other Honda forums:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/tech-misc-15/question-seasoned-certified-honda-technicians-2875808/

And also TSB 06-068

non-VTEC

check the upper control arm bushings and ball joint....i don't know what else to suggest...

clutch replacement should not cause a pull as the tranny comes out rather easily on a DC2 chassis..

im leaning towards bent upper control arms or knuckles.


good luck.

aw614

I think I am going to replace the lower shock bolt to lower control arm, it looks like I might have cross threaded it. I retightned it but the bolt looks crooked when tightened.

Another question, with the upper control arms and upper ball joints. How much play am I supposed to have side to side? both sides have some play when I move the 9 and 3 o'clock positions at the wheel? I am noticing very slight play from both fronts at the upper ball joint. But it isn't heavy play, but very slight. It wasn't as bad as some examples I've seen on youtube.

aw614

another update: Today I put in new moog upper control arms, and removed the bolts to the lower control arms and preloaded them this time and torqued them to spec. It seems to be driving straight and a lot like it did previously. Only way to find out is to get another alignment check. Since I'll probably plan for it after the lower ball joints are done. I have a feeling I did not preload the driver side the first time I did the install.

Still steering is a lot better, but I am still getting some jerking/studdering when I brake. I have a feeling it is my lower ball joint going. There was some brown grease near the hub. I am assuming there is a tear in the ball joint and it is leaking on the drivers side, so I probably will plan on replacing them soon along with the compliance bushing.

hondaon18's

You should of gotten adjustable upper control arms . So just in case that accident bent some frame parts then at least you could adjust . The guy that put this \----\ is right especially when you sit with your weight it makes the right side camber go more negative so that can also cause your pull to the left . If you are around any sears autocenters they offer free alignment checks . So you can see if the angles changed .

aw614

I probably should have, prior to my lca install and the recent clutch job, my past alignment speets did not have the caster and camber off so taking the chance. But if I do need adjustable UCA's, I'll probably just buy them and put the new ones on my 2000 on my 1997 beater, which may need them eventually also.

hondaon18's

Just remember just cause its shows green dosent mean its all good especially with that right side showing -0.8 camber

aw614

Alright another update since the last time, I had finally put in my ITR springs/shocks, rear LCA, near sway bar endlinks, and a new driver side tie rod. I had also made sure the front suspension was preloaded before tightening the bolts.

This was my last alignment I had done last month, right now it is driving straight , but my caster/camber is still off. I am really thinking of getting my old control arms bushings pressed out and putting in OEM bushings put in.


But I think these values look a lot better? I really want to get this whole camber/caster issue sorted, I might have to find a frame shop probably and see what they find. Would caster shims on right front LCA fix my caster issue?